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Apple TV Dev Tidbits: First Emulator Available, Old Remotes Work With New TV, Siri Remote Limited for Gaming

I'm a little confused with all the talk about lack of buttons. Can you not use the + and - buttons in addition to the button under the touch pad (bringing the count to 3 buttons and a simulated D Pad)? Being a developer myself, I am very interested in the new Apple TV (though I have my hands full with a project for iOS right now) but I would hate to have to limit my games due to a lack of inputs.

As far as emulators, I really wish Apple would let up a bit. This is one area (besides 4K video capabilities) where the new Kindle Fire TV has an advantage.
 
terminator-jq said:
I'm a little confused with all the talk about lack of buttons. Can you not use the + and - buttons in addition to the button under the touch pad (bringing the count to 3 buttons and a simulated D Pad)? Being a developer myself, I am very interested in the new Apple TV (though I have my hands full with a project for iOS right now) but I would hate to have to limit my games due to a lack of inputs.

As far as emulators, I really wish Apple would let up a bit. This is one area (besides 4K video capabilities) where the new Kindle Fire TV has an advantage.
Click to expand...
I guess you can't override the functions of the buttons. The only button with a custom function in an app is the play/pause-button I guess. All the other buttons actually do things that should work system wide.
 
Piggie said:
And yet, when people talk on these forums about Office 365 and a few dollars a month for the best office suite of apps, perhaps across multiple devices for the small payment, people go batpoo crazy about the price.

They then go out for a coffee and doughnut on the way to work and pay more than 1 month of office 365 :)
Click to expand...

That's because coffee and donuts are enjoyable and make us feel good.
The very idea of having to use office 365 days of the year and pay for it too is enough to make one consider gouging ones eyes out with skewers.
 
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ThunderSkunk said:
That's because coffee and donuts are enjoyable and make us feel good.
The very idea of having to use office 365 days of the year is enough to consider gouging ones eyes out with skewers.
Click to expand...

Well, it's how the world runs.
You may not like Office, others here may not like office, but it's reality and what the world uses.
 
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ArtOfWarfare said:
What does this thing have for WebGL capabilities? Does it have a web browser or is it trivial to make a web browsing app for it?

I'm pretty sure running an N64 or PS1 game in a browser should be completely doable - the games are small enough that you can download them in a few seconds and store the entire game in memory. We just need someone willing to run the website.
Click to expand...

There'll be no browser or WebKit in tvOS.
 
gkarris said:
Apple already made a real gaming console and it flopped.

This is just the next generation of their set top box that plays some casual games....

The audience is people who want to play their iTunes content and sports fans that need real-time stats on their screen...
Click to expand...

I know long ago there was a console, likewise, long ago there was a Steve Jobs.
Thankfully, for the world, both are now dead and buried.
We and Apple can move onwards without either of these to get in the way of progress to make better things for everyone to enjoy.
I know Apple COULD make an Amazing gaming device if they really wanted to.
I feel that one day they will, and I'm sure, deep down they have plans. They are just not ready yet.
 
Kroo said:
How are they forcing developers to dumb down their games again? BTW, there's more than one button on the remote in case you didn't notice. It even has a trackpad. Does Roku or chromecast remotes have one? Can you game on those devices? Seriously, if you're going to make comments, at least make them half intelligent.
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Honestly, I don't know why I bother, but ok.

http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/16/apple-tv-siri-remote-required-for-games/

"This new requirement could significantly change the kinds of games developers are able to target for the new system -- the new Siri remote is certainly more capable than the one it is replacing, but it's still not the ideal game controller. And at least one notable game -- Guitar Hero -- is clearly not going to work with the Siri remote. "
 
Kroo said:
I haven't seen a more stupid comment in such a while, but yours takes the cake. Do any of those devices have an App Store? No. Will they do gaming? No. Will they connect you to major video streaming services? No. Do they have voice control? No. Why? Because they're Micky Mouse devices in comparison.

If you even understood what Apple are doing here you would have half a clue, and that "rudderless ship" is the most valued tech company on the planet by a long way, and rising since Jobs death. Somehow I don't think Apple will be calling you for advice anytime soon, thank god. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Steve Jobs understood this: NO ONE cares about running apps on their TV, except for the Apple-koolaid drinking faithful. It's a device meant to either play games on, or watch media. Anything else can be done in half the time on someone's phone.

And the vast, overwhelming majority of Apple's profits come from the iPhone. As anyone with even the most rudimentary understanding of the tech world understands, one-trick-ponies don't usually last very long. I don't believe Apple will go bankrupt any time soon but I do think they are very close to having hard times.

Think about it. Since they can only make real money from the iPhone, where are they gonna get their 2016 profits from? They've basically got no new markets left to conquer since they've entered China, and they can only raise their profit-per-device so much before people start getting angry that Apple is cheating them (i.e. 16GB iPhone in the year 2015). They're already running into problems with this, and it's only going to get worse because they have been so short-sighted over the past few years. They've yet to enter a single market that actually stands a chance of making lots of money.

They're making the same exact mistake they made in the 1990's, half-heartedly entering far too many markets without actually making any real advances in those markets.

I literally don't see a single innovative feature about the new Apple TV. And for a $149 device in today's market, it really needed 2 or 3 killer features.
 
I would really LOVE Apple to enter the high end Games Market.
Currently dominated by Msoft, Sony and some Nintendo in there.
The would have to get into bed with Nvidia or AMD to create some custom hardware, but that's easy for Apple.
Really, they could BLOW the gaming world way open with the best console in the world, and all the software companies would flock to program for such a device.
Please Apple, get off you lazy ass and actually DO THIS.
It would be a winner, no question about it.
 
gkarris said:
Apple already made a real gaming console and it flopped.

This is just the next generation of their set top box that plays some casual games....

The audience is people who want to play their iTunes content and sports fans that need real-time stats on their screen...
Click to expand...

Ha, the Pippin? That was so far in the past it's like saying Apple made a tablet-like device and it flopped (Newton Messagepad).

If the new Apple TV is just for "casual games", why do they show a full console-style gaming controller front and center on their "games and more" page for the Apple TV? Hell, why not just omit MFi controller support completely if they only want the most casual of games. They also show some not-quite casual games as their features: Transistor and the Galaxy on Fire game aren't Metal Gear Solid, but then they aren't Angry Birds either.

Let's quote Apple:

Third-party controllers.
For serious gamers, the new Apple TV supports MFi-based controllers that let you run, jump, shoot, kick, throw, punch, or just about any other verb you can imagine.*
Click to expand...

If they are not at all interested in anything but the simplest gaming, then their marketing department needs to talk to the product managers and people who set developer rules and expectations.

Piggie said:
I would really LOVE Apple to enter the high end Games Market.
Currently dominated by Msoft, Sony and some Nintendo in there.
The would have to get into bed with Nvidia or AMD to create some custom hardware, but that's easy for Apple.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't think they need AMD or Nvidia, they're doing just fine with Imagination Tech's GPUs. if they wanted to go all out, PowerVR's highest end highest core count chip (GT7900) starts to compete with the GPUs in the PS4 and Xbox One- and those are frozen in time for the next few years...
 
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peterdevries said:
Your comment seems out of touch with reality. Apple is doing better than ever: wider global reach of products, a wider product portfolio, harder focus on software, more sales, more revenue, more profit. If that is a rudderless ship, then I want to be on it.

Roku is not a global scale product by any means. You should look beyond the US and UK. The chromecast is targeting a different use case than the new Apple TV.

What you consider "Apple Faithful" is by now the largest consumer electronics base in existence. You might not like the product and that is perfectly fine, but the single message that Apple has taken this product out of the hobby category will ensure that this things will be the best sold streaming device for the next years.
Click to expand...
A $150 streaming device is truly dead on arrival. Don't believe me? What is so revolutionary about this device that can command such a large price? And when I ask that question, I'm asking what will convince middle-class soccer moms that they need this instead of a much cheaper option that can also stream Netflix/HBO/etc, not just something that convinces you or other Apple faithful.

Apple thinks people want to use apps on their TV. This is rubbish. No one wants to use apps on their TV when they can do the same exact thing on their phone in half the time. Steve Jobs understood this and it's why the Apple TV lacked an App Store for so many years.

Also, you say Apple is doing better than ever. This is true. TODAY it's true, they're still riding high off one-time-only recent successes that cannot be repeated. It's because they just entered the Chinese market and they're making unfathomable profits. But the problem is that for almost 5-6 years now they have completely relied on the iPhone to make the vast majority of their profits. Companies that rely on a single product like that eventually realize their mistake.

Apple is half heartedly trying to enter other markets, but they're making really DUMB decisions here. Cars...? Wasting $3 billion just to enter Internet radio/subscription music? Gaudy watches? None of these are ever going to replace the iPhone in terms of Apple's bottom line. So not only are they not finding a good new source of profits, they're wasting their time entering all of these different markets that they will never make any real money from.

If I was an investor, I would sell my AAPL shares quickly. They made the same *EXACT* mistakes in the 1990's.
 
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AxoNeuron said:
A $150 streaming device is truly dead on arrival. Don't believe me? What is so revolutionary about this device that can command such a large price? And when I ask that question, I'm asking what will convince middle-class soccer moms that they need this instead of a much cheaper option that can also stream Netflix/HBO/etc, not just something that convinces you or other Apple faithful.

Apple thinks people want to use apps on their TV. This is rubbish. No one wants to use apps on their TV when they can do the same exact thing on their phone in half the time. Steve Jobs understood this and it's why the Apple TV lacked an App Store for so many years.
Click to expand...

Umm plenty of people watch Apps on Their Tv, THAT IS WHY ROKU, CHROEMCAST AND APPLE TV ARE BIG SELLERS!! are you really this stupid?? Watching HBO on my TV does not kill my Phone's battery and it is a better experience on a large TV. And the Soccor Moms are not buying the devices, The Dads are you fool and if you can't afford 150, you are not middle class. Go tell Nvidia their streaming device is DOA at 200, I am sure they will halt production
 
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AxoNeuron said:
Apple thinks people want to use apps on their TV. This is rubbish. No one wants to use apps on their TV when they can do the same exact thing on their phone in half the time. Steve Jobs understood this and it's why the Apple TV lacked an App Store for so many years.
Click to expand...

I think you're wrong there. People might not want to run all of the same types of apps on their TV, that much is obvious. But there are a ton of cases (even more versatile video playing solutions alone) where 3rd party software for a set top box will be great. And lots of opportunities for clever developers.

If you're right, when this thing is released we should be hearing about how no one is downloading many apps for their Apple TV since no one is interested.
 
JoeShades said:
Umm plenty of people watch Apps on Their Tv, THAT IS WHY ROKU, CHROEMCAST AND APPLE TV ARE BIG SELLERS!! are you really this stupid?? Watching HBO on my TV does not kill my Phone's battery and it is a better experience on a large TV. And the Soccor Moms are not buying the devices, The Dads are you fool and if you can't afford 150, you are not middle class
Click to expand...
Um, yeah. Speaking of HBO Go, you can do that on a $30 chrome cast or a roku for less than half the price. Little games on a tiny little controller aren't going to bring any concerts either.

I fail to see how your comment makes the new Apple TV any better by comparison. I'm not saying people won't buy a $150 TV add-on, because history shows that they will. What I am saying is that they won't buy a $150 add on that can't do anything truly new or exciting, where the most important features are things that a $30 device can do.

People would download TV apps to consume media, yes. I fail to see how the Apple TV has an advantage here.

The reason that SO many promising TV add ons have failed is because they were too expensive. That's why the only real successful add ons today are all sub-$100 devices. Apple has forgotten this fact and it is going to doom the Apple TV to irrelevance.
 
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blackcrayon said:
I think you're wrong there. People might not want to run all of the same types of apps on their TV, that much is obvious. But there are a ton of cases (even more versatile video playing solutions alone) where 3rd party software for a set top box will be great. And lots of opportunities for clever developers.

If you're right, when this thing is released we should be hearing about how no one is downloading many apps for their Apple TV since no one is interested.
Click to expand...
Well you're right about the video games, but Apple made three big mistakes here that basically doom the Apple TV to irrelevance. A) it uses a tiny little remote that no one will seriously want to play games on and B) no one is actually going to go out and buy a third party controller (if there's anything a tech company should consider to be a given fact of the universe, it's that people are lazy) and C) they aren't courting any big-time studios like Activision or EA that are going to spend a large amount of resources bringing new titles to the device. This alone kills the Apple TV's chances of ever being a real gaming platform.
 
Couldn't Apple have addressed the "need a controller" issue by allowing games to require the use of an iPhone or iPod Touch as a controller instead of the included remote?

That would let a developer slap a simple multi-stick/button virtual controller onto an iPhone which, while probably not that practical, allows them to cover the "you don't technically need to own a controller" bases and Apple to feel like they're giving owners some leeway.
 
blackcrayon said:
I think you're wrong there. People might not want to run all of the same types of apps on their TV, that much is obvious. But there are a ton of cases (even more versatile video playing solutions alone) where 3rd party software for a set top box will be great. And lots of opportunities for clever developers.

If you're right, when this thing is released we should be hearing about how no one is downloading many apps for their Apple TV since no one is interested.
Click to expand...

Previous Apple Tvs were big sellers up until last year or so and they had few Apps
AxoNeuron said:
Um, yeah. Speaking of HBO Go, you can do that on a $30 chrome cast or a roku for less than half the price.

I fail to see how your comment makes the new Apple TV any better by comparison. I'm not saying people won't buy a $150 TV add-on, because history shows that they will. What I am saying is that they won't buy a $150 add on that can't do anything truly new or exciting, where the most important features are things that a $30 device can do.

People would download TV apps to consume media, yes. I fail to see how the Apple TV has an advantage here.
Click to expand...

A decent Roku is not half the Price, the older devices like the older Apple are frustratingly Slow, Roku does not do Airplay or Home sharing so no Roku does not do the same things, Chromecast is just an airplay like device, Only reason it sells well is because it has google behind it, which is why the Apple tvs did sell well and will sell well . fire TV is a million times better than Chroemcast junk but does not sell as well
 
AxoNeuron said:
Well you're right about the video games, but Apple made three big mistakes here that basically doom the Apple TV to irrelevance. A) it uses a tiny little remote that no one will seriously want to play games on and B) no one is actually going to go out and buy a third party controller (if there's anything a tech company should consider to be a given fact of the universe, it's that people are lazy) and C) they aren't courting any big-time studios like Activision or EA that are going to spend a large amount of resources bringing new titles to the device. This alone kills the Apple TV's chances of ever being a real gaming platform.
Click to expand...

None of the streaming boxes have taken off because of gaming, they have all flopped at that and they are not irrelevant, nor will the Apple TV be big at gaming or be irrelevant, more people care about the App store not the games, Not one person at apple has said they are trying to take over the gaming industry
 
JoeShades said:
A decent Roku is not half the Price, the older devices like the older Apple are frustratingly Slow, Roku does not do Airplay or Home sharing so no Roku does not do the same things, Chromecast is just an airplay like device, Only reason it sells well is because it has google behind it, which is why the Apple tvs did sell well and will sell well . fire TV is a million times better than Chroemcast junk but does not sell as well
Click to expand...
And why do you think the chrome cast sells so much better and the fire TV is failing? It's because it's so much cheaper. The same will hold true for the new Apple TV. I'm not saying it won't sell. I'm saying it won't ever sell that well.

Again, I fail to see any new exciting features that will convince someone to spend $150 on a device simply because it runs apps. Speaking as a developer most of us won't bother making apps for the Apple TV since we don't see any real profits to be made.
 
AxoNeuron said:
And why do you think the chrome cast sells so much better and the fire TV is failing? It's because it's so much cheaper. The same will hold true for the new Apple TV. I'm not saying it won't sell. I'm saying it won't ever sell that well.

Again, I fail to see any new exciting features that will convince someone to spend $150 on a device simply because it runs apps. Speaking as a developer most of us won't bother making apps for the Apple TV since we don't see any real profits to be made.
Click to expand...

It does more than run APPS you Goddamn troll!!

Appel tv within a year will have more Apps than Amazon and better Apps than Roku, at least half of Roku Apps are religious channels or just plain junk just to say they have 2000 Apps
 
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