Apple TV Dev Tidbits: First Emulator Available, Old Remotes Work With New TV, Siri Remote Limited for Gaming

[Kroo]

Sorry my friend.
You're childish and petty tantrum of aggressive replies has become tiresome.
I'm sure no one wants to read this stuff here, so I'll leave to you simmer down.
I really can't be bothered talking to you any more on this point, so have a good day my friend.
Hope you have a better less stress day tomorrow. Goodbye as far as this topic between us is concerned.

Yeah, I didn't think you had it in you to back anything up with some facts. As I've said, I always look forward to an intelligent conversation, but I have no time for fools who make unintelligent claims and out and out lies. Be reassured, I will look forward to calling you out in the future, so next time, come prepared. I think I'll have a far better day than you will.

Still waiting on those links...........................................

 

[bommai]

I consider the new Amazon Fire tv to be the direct competitor. They have all the features that Apple has more (4K support and h.265 support) and all for $50 less. And they don't restrict games to the remote either. In fact they sell a gaming controller bundle as well. I bought the first Gen fire tv stick for $20 when it came out last year and have been pleasantly surprised. It has been easy to use.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

What does this thing have for WebGL capabilities? Does it have a web browser or is it trivial to make a web browsing app for it?

I'm pretty sure running an N64 or PS1 game in a browser should be completely doable - the games are small enough that you can download them in a few seconds and store the entire game in memory. We just need someone willing to run the website.

 

[RickInHouston]

i want kodi on this thing!

Development for kodi on apple TV is dead.

 

[blackcrayon]

I've got an Apple TV Dev Kit.

Yeah, I don't really have a point, just wanted to say that.

Got it today, not supposed to talk about it, apparently.

But I am writing an app for it - won't be game. Not supposed to talk about that either.

waaaah. I'm downloading providence, but if it doesn't work well with the remote - then I can't use it.

I'm not buying some kind of dedicated game controller.

You sound like someone who, if they didn't get a developer kit, would have still purchased an Apple TV for $150-$200.

You got a developer kit for around $1.00.

You have no money left for a controller?

 

[iamPro]

My iPhone only has ONE BUTTON. Apple is doomed!

Seriously, I can't believe you don't see where the problem is with the Siri remote having only one button. The iPhone has virtual buttons that you can see while you play. You don't even use the home butting for gaming. So where are the virtual buttons on the Siri remote and the tv you're looking at? And don't even mention mirroring. Have you ever tried playing games with mirroring? Other than simple games that only use the accelerometer, which even then suffers from noticeable lag, it's a nightmare looking at the tv while trying to correctly press all the virtual buttons on your phone. That's why I gave up on playing any games on my atv. It was just a laggy gimmick for games.

Plus atv was where Apple could really shine in gaming. It has all the right potentials sans the remote requirement. Yet they had to ruin it by requiring the use of the Siri remote. It's doomed for becoming a serious gaming platform but probably not the atv per se.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Yep. That is my favorite feature of the current ATV. I use my LogitechHarmony for everything. I hate having to dig out the remote for the Fire TV anytime I want/need Prime video.

Does the Fire TV remote not work with IR? If it has IR, see if your Harmony is a "learning" remote and "learn" the Fire TV codes into it so it can take over for that one too.

I have what's called a universal learning remote from Universal Remote Control Inc. This is one of it's (best IMO) features in that if ANY remote control codes are not available in it's huge database, they can be "learned" by pointing the new devices's remote at the universal remote while in "learn" mode. It works great (until somebody decides they won't support IR anymore in some new device's remote... maybe bluetooth only or something else).

Anyone reading this and desiring a "one remote to rule them all" scenario should seek out a "universal learning" remote. But, you should probably stand by and give those that make them a chance to potentially incorporate the microphone (to support Siri-type functionality) too. Or maybe some already have that???

I'm going to assume that Apple will back off the "games must work with the remote" stance after enough of these early developers complain that it is an obstacle to delivering the best gaming experiences possible (and yes, I understand that they can try to make it work with the remote but also push the added experience benefits of buying a full gaming controller too). If so, the universal remote companies may not have to consider building in the motion sensor, etc too. Or maybe those that take on the Siri microphone inclusion will also go ahead and cover that base too?

 

[iSee]

So the gamepad situation is even more dire: you have dpad, accelerometer, and one button. They *really* need to revert that gamepad decision

That won't change the situation for developers and users much at all.

If Apple allowed games designed only for game pads, developers would still have to design games for the ATV remote or live in a tiny niche market. It just doesn't make sense to do that. Why not develop your game controller-based game for a system where all the players actually *have* a game controller?

The only way for game controller-based games to be viable on ATV is if Apple releases one, and it probably has to be included with the ATV from the start.

Apple knows this. Whether it's wise or not, they've decided *not* to compete with traditional console games. They want developers to create games designed for the ATV and its included controller, *not* port the same game from other systems that plays the same way. It does make sense to do something different, since they aren't going to compete directly with the established consoles with a much less powerful system.

 

[unplugme71]

. I think they want to force devs to see what they can do first and get it in people's hands. They want enough games so people don't have to run out and buy a controller after dropping $150. They also want to be cheaper than Wii.

Down the road we will see game pads allowed. It could end up being the iPhone though.

 

[Piggie]

That won't change the situation for developers and users much at all.

If Apple allowed games designed only for game pads, developers would still have to design games for the ATV remote or live in a tiny niche market. It just doesn't make sense to do that. Why not develop your game controller-based game for a system where all the players actually *have* a game controller?

The only way for game controller-based games to be viable on ATV is if Apple releases one, and it probably has to be included with the ATV from the start.

Apple knows this. Whether it's wise or not, they've decided *not* to compete with traditional console games. They want developers to create games designed for the ATV and its included controller, *not* port the same game from other systems that plays the same way. It does make sense to do something different, since they aren't going to compete directly with the established consoles with a much less powerful system.

Actually it can happen another way, and has in the past.
You can sometimes get a 3rd party item, that becomes so popular it ends up becoming pretty much a standard thing most people would get, but such things need large scale 3rd party support.

Scenario would be an excellent, well priced games controller that was stocked in many places, Dev's saw it was a great device, and started to support it. a few smaller devs saw these large devs supporting it and they also supported it.
With a little luck, this snowball starts to grow, and after a while, it just becomes "the norm" for anyone writing a game to also support this controller, and it can become almost an official / unofficial product that "you just buy" to go along with the main product.

A bit like the old Soundblaster cards, Voodoo 3D Cards, Joysticks etc of the PC world of the past.

You just need a collection of the BIG Boys to support it, the smaller boys also supporting it, and the snowball effect kicks in.

The trick is, the hardware (joystick in the case) has to really stand out as something that's wanted to be supported by the right people so this can start and gain the momentum in the 1st place.

Naturally if Apple make one then none of this "hoping it happens" would need to take place, and it would happen from day one.

 

[breather]

It would be cool if we could use the playstation controller

 

[blackcrayon]

.

Apple knows this. Whether it's wise or not, they've decided *not* to compete with traditional console games. They want developers to create games designed for the ATV and its included controller, *not* port the same game from other systems that plays the same way. It does make sense to do something different, since they aren't going to compete directly with the established consoles with a much less powerful system.

Perhaps. But keep in mind Apple is also expecting one app to support the TV, iPads, and IPhones. Controls for most games will be more different from iPhone to Apple TV remote than they would be from console controller to Apple TV remote. It's almost like saying the vast majority of games can't even be ported from iPhone if they expect to have even remotely similar controls.

What does this thing have for WebGL capabilities? Does it have a web browser or is it trivial to make a web browsing app for it?

I'm pretty sure running an N64 or PS1 game in a browser should be completely doable - the games are small enough that you can download them in a few seconds and store the entire game in memory. We just need someone willing to run the website.

It has no web browser and UIwebview is not supported, so right now there is no way to easily provide a ready made browser. For now people would have to go the self-compiled route, should someone make something like that from "scratch".

 

[Dorkington]

I feel like this would be bad for users and the AppleTV reputation because not everyone will know that they should buy a controller to play it properly.

Apple could reverse the decision, but how do they warn people to make sure they have a controller before buying the app? Could be a mess for them and making sure all games work with the Siri remote saves them some trouble.

That being said, it means that games won't be all that great on AppleTV which is disappointing.

Eh, just throw up a big ole warning screen at the beginning of the game, and in the app description screen.

THIS GAME IS OPTIMIZED FOR USE WITH A MFI GAME CONTROLLER. IF YOU USE THE SIRI REMOTE YOUR GAME PLAY EXPERIENCE WILL BE COMPROMISED.

 

[DevNull0]

Forget it,for emulators you WILL need a real controller.
Also highly unlikely this will make it to the real App store.
If you are interested in emulators and retro games,get an Amazon Fire TV.it's perfect for emulation,from Atari 2600 to Dreamcast.it handles them all pefectly.and you can use PS4 controller,or Xbox 360 Wired controller or any bluetooth controler.

I have zero interest in an Apple TV as apple presented it. But a good retro emulation system would be very hard to turn down.

Currently I use a Raspberry Pi running RetroPie and a couple of old wired USB controllers I had lying around.

 

[Piggie]

It would be cool if we could use the playstation controller

I only suggested that, as it's an "Easy Fix"

Millions of people all around the world already have PS3 and PS4 controllers.
They are priced well.
Most seem to agree these controllers are the best or among the best out there.
Millions of people are already used to the feel of them, and position of controls/buttons.

Really if it were possible and if you wanted to get all the devs "on board" then a PS3 or PS4 controller would be an easy thing to run with for an Apple TV and Games.

Personally I don't care what make or brand it is, as long as it's good in the hand, all controls are designed and place well and it's not stupidly overpriced as almost all "Apple Accessories" are simply because people try to milk it because it's to work with something Apple made.

like a £10 case that has to be sold for £30 because it's to fit an Apple product.

 

[jim.arrows]

They should have included a gaming controller with the new Apple TV
But Apple doesn't care about gaming that much

Agree, this seems penny wise and pound foolish. At $149 just include an mfi compatible controller, take a hit on the gross margin for the atv hardware, and then recoup that margin exponentially by taking your 30% cut of all those games that would enable you to sell. Forcing devs to create a crappy gaming experience so their apps are fully compatible with the siri touch remote will end up costing a lot of lost revenue in the long run, much more so than just including the gaming controller up front would cost.

 

[Piggie]

This is the silly thing.
If Apple DID push this a little more into the games arena and threw in an additional games controller, they would see sales skyrocket, and get the Apple TV into vastly more homes.

OMG this is just embarrassing.

£60 UK Pounds for this horrid cheap looking lump of plastic that should be priced about £10 looking at it.


http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/HE760ZM/A/steelseries-stratus-wireless-gaming-controller


Shame on the makers......

If I'm truthful. I'm shocked Apple, who is all about beautiful design and quality and materials would even show just a cheap and nasty lump of black plastic on their official web site!

 

[pilotpat]

I haven't seen a more stupid comment in such a while, but yours takes the cake. Do any of those devices have an App Store? No. Will they do gaming? No. Will they connect you to major video streaming services? No. Do they have voice control? No. Why? Because they're Micky Mouse devices in comparison.

If you even understood what Apple are doing here you would have half a clue, and that "rudderless ship" is the most valued tech company on the planet by a long way, and rising since Jobs death. Somehow I don't think Apple will be calling you for advice anytime soon, thank god.

Hold on, let me check my roku again, but amazon instant, Netflix, hulu, HBO go, showtime, crackle, slingtv, etc etc are all there. So your point about not connecting to major streaming video services, is fkat out wrong. And they also have a limited selection of games that can be played using the remote. Not really good games, but they have them. I have the dev kit and am working on my tvos app, but seriously, if those devices didn't connect to any streaming video services, why would anyone buy then?

 

[CrAkD]

It saves them the risk of the gaming portion bombing. They want the games to just be casual so it's no pressure. If they cleared all road blocks to compete with consoles and it bombed they'd look bad.

 

[Piggie]

It saves them the risk of the gaming portion bombing. They want the games to just be casual so it's no pressure. If they cleared all road blocks to compete with consoles and it bombed they'd look bad.

I know what you mean here.
But I think we all know that.
Apple can make it clear to the world very easy what they wish to achieve for their device and explain it well without fear of people saying "well it's not as fast as a PS4" I think they world knows that.

It's funny how some things they say could backfire on them though, saying things like this chip has desktop computer performance, when we know a desktop PC will overpower a PS4, and that their AX chips are no where near such a console, remarks like that, which are used as throwaway lines, just don't make any sense if you think about them.

That all said, if they explain they area they are going for, in gaming, and point out the price/performance, I don't think they should worry about what you mention.

 

[Piggie]

My iPhone only has ONE BUTTON. Apple is doomed!

If your iPhone does only have 1 button I suggest you must have some cheap knock/off copy product as real genuine iPhones have an array of buttons in various locations on the device.

 

[ohio.emt]

I haven't seen a more stupid comment in such a while, but yours takes the cake. Do any of those devices have an App Store? No. Will they do gaming? No. Will they connect you to major video streaming services? No. Do they have voice control? No. Why? Because they're Micky Mouse devices in comparison.

If you even understood what Apple are doing here you would have half a clue, and that "rudderless ship" is the most valued tech company on the planet by a long way, and rising since Jobs death. Somehow I don't think Apple will be calling you for advice anytime soon, thank god.

Lol, what are you smoking? All of those devices have had an app store, and most major streaming services except iTunes for more then a year. Apple is the one lagging behind. As for games they all have a simple selection of games. The FireTv even has Grand Theft Auto. The FireTv even sells a version with a game controller, and games can be made to only use a controller. As for voice control FireTv has had a voice search function since it came out, and the new version is getting Amazon's Alexa service.

So since you like to scream for people to do research before commenting maybe you should take your own flaming advice. Since you will demand links here you go

http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=7031433011
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/04/28/the-best-games-for-amazon-fire-tv
https://www.google.com/chrome/devices/chromecast/apps.html
https://channelstore.roku.com/browse/movies-and-tv/popularity
https://channelstore.roku.com/details/63431/tetris-battle-2p

 

[doelcm82]

Seriously, I can't believe you don't see where the problem is with the Siri remote having only one button. The iPhone has virtual buttons that you can see while you play. You don't even use the home butting for gaming. So where are the virtual buttons on the Siri remote and the tv you're looking at? And don't even mention mirroring. Have you ever tried playing games with mirroring? Other than simple games that only use the accelerometer, which even then suffers from noticeable lag, it's a nightmare looking at the tv while trying to correctly press all the virtual buttons on your phone. That's why I gave up on playing any games on my atv. It was just a laggy gimmick for games.

Plus atv was where Apple could really shine in gaming. It has all the right potentials sans the remote requirement. Yet they had to ruin it by requiring the use of the Siri remote. It's doomed for becoming a serious gaming platform but probably not the atv per se.

The one button I was referring to was the screen. After the iPhone was announced, many people complained that the lack of a physical keyboard would be a serious hindrance.

I for one am going to reserve judgement on the usefulness of the remote for the kinds of games I will likely play on it until I have one in my home and until I see what talented developers do with the inputs available from the Siri Remote.

Since you've mentioned "virtual buttons" you have to be aware that the touch pad on the Siri Remote accepts gestures, taps and actual clicks. Anyone who complains about the remote having just one button is either being intentionally misleading, or has been regretfully misled.

https://developer.apple.com/tvos/human-interface-guidelines/remote-and-interaction/

 

[doelcm82]

If your iPhone does only have 1 button I suggest you must have some cheap knock/off copy product as real genuine iPhones have an array of buttons in various locations on the device.

Hmm.. have you seen the Siri Remote? Even more buttons than the iPhone.

 

[Smeaton1724]

Would love it if some Developer with the New Apple TV would test Movie and Music Homesharing from a PowerPC running OSX 10.5.8 and iTunes. I'm rocking an old iBook as an iTunes server and hope it still works - Technically it should work as normal but Apple has a way of nixing support and not mentioning it (iOS 8.4 Music Homesharing).