Apple TV Games Must Work With Apple TV Remote, May Not Require External Controller

[Superhai]

This. And before the purchase is made they could show a warning:

As said before in the original dev docs the TV app store was designed so that you could not buy games with profiles requiring game controllers. Apple changed their stance on this, and I believe that is the right thing to do, as for devs wanting to make money the bigger audience is more important.

 

[2010mini]

Those games that require more complicated controls will be absent from the app store, unless the developers can come up with creative ways to use the trackpad and other control methods available on the Apple TV remote. I expect there will still be lots of games, and small-g gamers buying them and playing them, but not a very large contingent of Apple TV Gamers rocking their cosplay at the next big gaming convention you attend.

What current iOS game require complicated controls? This is a video media STREAMING box. Not a gaming console. It is way too underpowered for the games you are thinking developers will make.

I foresee games I can play with my 5 year old after we watch a Disney movie. Metal Gear Solid type games won't be on this device.

 

[GFLPraxis]

Yes you can. Anything a normal 80-es kind of joystick are able to, the ATV-remote is perfectly capable of.
Apple must also had a reason why they abandoned the original plan to restrict access of games to those who did not have a controller.

Okay, so as you're clearly not a gamer, I should let you know: Super Mario World uses a D-pad, not a joystick, and uses four buttons on the controller.

The Apple TV does not have four buttons.

 

[till213]

They probably don't want to have to deal with the inevitable onslaught of "I bought this game and I didn't know I needed to buy some accessory! I want a refund!" (even though the requirements were listed right on the app page).

Technically you could probably prevent that by saying: "Please confirm this purchase by pushing the [X] button on your game controller." - Problem solved.

 

[GFLPraxis]

What current iOS game require complicated controls? This is a video media STREAMING box. Not a gaming console. It is way too underpowered for the games you are thinking developers will make.

I foresee games I can play with my 5 year old after we watch a Disney movie. Metal Gear Solid type games won't be on this device.

Which is why people still buy Nintendo 3DS's. Which is interesting, because iPhones (and the Apple TV) are way more powerful than a 3DS, graphics-wise; they just lack either appropriate controls or the market to sustain good games.

 

[till213]

Why exactly is the remote a disaster? I'm guessing you're saying that based on how it looks and not its functionality since I'm 99% sure you haven't used it. I don't care if it looks a little strange as long as it works just like they demoed it.

You are not serious, aren't you?

 

[till213]

Apple TV 4 - GAME OVER!

 

[till213]

You don't NEED to.

All this means is that games have to work with the included remote, not that developers CAN'T support third-party controllers. They just can't require that you buy one to use the game at all.

I don't think you got the real message here out of this post...

 

[blackcrayon]

Judging by Apple's developer docs, they're going to have to reverse or clarify this. Customers and developers are going to want a better compromise.

There's also some contradictory info on the tvOS docs.


"You must support the pause button. All controllers include a pause button. When gameplay is active, pressing the pause button should pause gameplay. When the game is not being played, such as when you are at a menu screen, the pause button moves to a previous screen of content."

Then below that it says
Using the Apple TV Remote as a Game Controller

• The touchpad is available as a digital button (button A), by firmly pressing on the touchpad.
  
  
• The Play/Pause button on the remote is a digital button (button X).
  
  
• The menu button on the remote is used to pause gameplay, calling the controller object’s pause handler.

Umm... what? Surely a mistake in the docs as the pause button can't be button X AND be required to pause the game, AND the menu button also pauses. But this shows there are only 2 buttons you can use, and one is under your left thumb already with the analog touchpad.

If not, I can picture developers making an area at the bottom left with all of the buttons you'd need to play, and you just guide a pointer over the appropriate button you want and click /s

 

[stickyd8]

What current iOS game require complicated controls? This is a video media STREAMING box. Not a gaming console. It is way too underpowered for the games you are thinking developers will make.

I foresee games I can play with my 5 year old after we watch a Disney movie. Metal Gear Solid type games won't be on this device.

There are already some console quality games that have complicated screen controls and ones that use the Xbox-type controllers. People are upset because if Apple does this, it will discourage developers from developing games to support more robust and easier to play games for high-end controllers.

 

[wigby]

Android TV has a section that is titled Games Requiring a Gamepad. It's not a rocket science thing to address nor unique.

it's not rocket science but neither is figuring out why Android TV (or Android in general) has failed at games and generally monetizing the platform for developers. Apple will modify or even reverse course on this decision should games in the living room prove lucrative to them. Dedicated console gaming might be profitable to Sony and Microsoft but Apple has a much higher standard of profitability. Let's just hope in the meantime that Apple's developers embrace unique ways to use the new Siri remote to create great games. We already have too many cookie cutter 1st person shooters out there.

 

[vcoleiro1]

it's not rocket science but neither is figuring out why Android TV (or Android in general) has failed at games and generally monetizing the platform for developers. Apple will modify or even reverse course on this decision should games in the living room prove lucrative to them. Dedicated console gaming might be profitable to Sony and Microsoft but Apple has a much higher standard of profitability. Let's just hope in the meantime that Apple's developers embrace unique ways to use the new Siri remote to create great games. We already have too many cookie cutter 1st person shooters out there.

Android TV hasn't failed. It's only been out 10 months since it launched on the pretty ordinary Nexus Player. Since the Shield TV launched just over 3 months ago, game development for Android TV has lept forward in leaps and bounds. There's 100's of games on it now. Unfortunately a lot of the better games you find on it , will never get ported to Apple TV if the current remote rule stands. Sad day for all, devs and players alike.

 

[thecb4]

"Casual Mode" - remote control accessible
"Intense Mode" - 3rd party controller needed

problem solved.

 

[SPUY767]

Thus driving a nail in the coffin for any companies interested in making good games for it.

No one on earth is going to buy this for its gaming capabilities.

Why even bother if you need to be able to control it with that disaster of a remote?

The NES is 30+ years old and is a more capable gaming machine than the Apple TV.

Ironically, NES games are some of the ones I'd like to play on the AppleTV.

 

[8281]

It's better than having no warning when all games technically work with the remote but some are total crap with the remote and really should use a proper controller. Those games should have a warning but won't because they officially support the controller.

I'm not sure that's true. Most people won't seriously game on this device, so it's in the interest of Apple and the Devs to make all games compatible with hardware everyone will have instead of limiting your profit to only those people willing to spend an extra $40 for a game controller.

If a consumer likes the game, then they can spend a little more.

 

[k1121j]

Are you really comparing a little plastic stylus (the one Jobs was talking about) with the new Pencil?

yes... and even at that time stylus's did the same things the pencil does now so yes i am

further more how do you know what particular stylus steve was talking about did he tell you ?

 

[k1121j]

deleted mistaken post

 

[thewebb]

You are not serious, aren't you?

I'm actually not sure if you're serious about asking if I'm serious

 

[MH01]

You clearly don't know what you're talking about when it comes to photography and you don't want to be told otherwise. See you in six months when everyone is nuts for gaming on this thing.

lol. Clearly you have never used a DSLR and have a twisted view of how they are extremely complicated to take a picture .

Please explain how using a DSLR and iPhone are fundementaly different in taking a basic picture ..... Please please...

 

[DavidLynch]

I can see why they did this, but it's disappointing. After seeing the possibility of the Apple TV getting some console caliber games this is going to cripple that.

 

[WestonHarvey1]

I disagree. There are already games out supporting several devices. I guess it will depend on the developers of each game. So give it a chance.

The rules are different on iOS. If I'm interpreting this rule correctly, Apple will reject games that provide a more limited experience on the remote than they do on a gamepad.

If there's a list of things you need the extra buttons on a game pad to do, it's going to get rejected. So you'll be able to support a game pad, but not make full use of it, because the remote just doesn't have that many inputs.

 

[macduke]

I can turn the argument the other way and say how do you play a game like Minecraft using an Xbox controller? And yet it is popular on the Xbox and Minecraft is owned by Microsoft so you know they control every aspect. Why do you need Apple to make a controller? There are already 3rd party controllers that work with ATV.

I actually prefer playing Minecraft with a controller. You don't have to memorize every specific crafting recipe which is nice. And moving around in 3D—especially making precise jumps is easier. At least for me. Only reason I prefer playing on my Mac is to play mod packs like Resonant Rise. I usually use TooManyItems and an ME system anyway which makes it even simpler than on Xbox for crafting. But explain to me how you can navigate, jump and sprint around a massive 3D world using the new Apple TV remote? It's already not ideal on the iPhone and iPad. Luckily they just added in controller support the other week.

My guess is that most of the larger development studios will just stay away from the Apple TV. They'll look at the strict file size and controller requirements, see a limited install base and say "screw that". The Apple TV will be dominated by simplistic but still fun in short bursts game play—but the scourge of freemium garbage will also be everywhere. Alternatively I could see some companies supporting the controller as a minimum but realistically the game will play best on the MFI controllers. But the key is that Apple didn't bundle a first-party controller. So how successful could those games ever be if most people don't have a controller? And it's confusing what type of controller and where to buy it. You can go to the video game section at most retailers and each console has their own section. Apple doesn't and I've never even seen an MFI controller for sale outside of Best Buy—and I'm pretty sure it wasn't even in the gaming section?

iOS gaming started out so promising. Especially compared to the state of Mac gaming for so many years. I used to love going on MacRumors sister site TouchArcade and reading all the reviews and reading the lively forums. I'd always look forward to the new mid-week releases. But I feel like Apple has let things stagnate and wither. It's rare that I play any games on my iPhone anymore and I used to have pages and folders chock-full of games. I'm also massively turned off by freemium crap—so maybe I'm just an old man now.

 

[superberg]

"Casual Mode" - remote control accessible
"Intense Mode" - 3rd party controller needed

problem solved.

So... developers of high-end, complex games will have to design two completely different control schemes, one of which is dumbed down to swipes, taps, and a pair of buttons?

That's a great way to welcome them to the platform.

I challenge everyone saying the remote will be enough to look at the control scheme of Arkham Knight and make it work with the Apple TV. You can look at the manual here: https://www.batmanarkhamknight.com/assets/manuals/PS4/BAK_PS4_ManInt_ENG.pdf

There is plenty of room for discussion regarding the place of the Apple TV in terms of whether it can or should overtake consoles. We can compare specs, functionality, and expectations for days.

There is no room for discussion when it comes to comparing the Apple TV remote to a standard -- STANDARD -- gaming controller. There is no contest, no comparison. The Apple TV remote cannot match the functionality of a DualShock 4. This is not an opinion. It is a quantifiable fact.

A trackpad barely larger than your thumb, a gyroscope, and a pair of buttons cannot match a device that features all that on top of two analog sticks, a dpad, and nine more buttons. The end.

 

[blackcrayon]

The rules are different on iOS. If I'm interpreting this rule correctly, Apple will reject games that provide a more limited experience on the remote than they do on a gamepad.

If there's a list of things you need the extra buttons on a game pad to do, it's going to get rejected. So you'll be able to support a game pad, but not make full use of it, because the remote just doesn't have that many inputs.

I'm 100% sure you're not interpreting it the way they mean it. There is no way they would even bother allowing MFi controllers if you couldn't use any/all of the buttons on them in a game. Apple made the controller spec themselves, after all . According to the current tvOS docs, you can only use 2 "buttons" (one being the touchpad itself) on the remote. Do you think Apple will not allow you to use the 8+ pressure sensitive buttons on the MFi controller they themselves specified?

The ridiculousness of the whole thing makes me think Apple will reverse course on this again before the Apple TV ships to customers.

yes... and even at that time stylus's did the same things the pencil does now so yes i am

further more how do you know what particular stylus steve was talking about did he tell you ?

Well Apple submitted a stylus patent in 2010 while Steve was still around, so... I think people are being intentionally obtuse with this thing.

http://www.cnbc.com/2014/12/31/apples-next-big-devicea-pen.html

 

[Tech198]

I like the fact a remote must be primary device because it sells, BUT Apple must also remember they have just opened this up to game developers too, and unlike iOS where it does allot more then apple TV can do, u should be able to have other primary device when u need it..

"Select which one to be primary" unless u can make it sticky...

As long as u have an "option" it should be ok,,,, BUT also as long as the app remembers that option. otherwise it won't work