Apple TV Review by Walt Mossberg

[SPUY767]

Wish I had an excuse to buy one, but as I only live in one room, and that room is tiny, the 24" iMac makes for more sense for me as a media centre (or a Mac Pro when/if it gets Front Row). But given the option, I can't help but think I'd just fork out the extra £100 quid for a Mini and have all the extra functionality instead

I use my MacPro with frontrow software that I downloaded, I guess illegally. I think apple will cut me some slack as ai dropped 4 G's on a computer. I run it through the aforementioned plasma using DVD and the MacPro's D/O out into my Surround sound system. One of my favorite things that I did, was to encode all of the DTS CD's that I own into Apple Lossless and play them through the surround unit.

 

[buckjohnbuck@ya]

nothing to with Blu-Ray?

All of those whinning about 1080p, where are you going to get your 1080p source; PS3 games, HD-DVD or Blu-ray?

AppleTV has nothing to do with any of those...

apart from
"Apple is pleased to join the Blu-ray Disc Association board as part of our efforts to drive consumer adoption of HD," said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. "Consumers are already creating stunning HD content with Apple’s leading video editing applications like iMovie HD and are anxiously awaiting a way to burn their own high def DVDs.
(http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/03/10/bluray/index.php)
or
Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association
(http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/17hd.html)

 

[boer]

They expect Apple to lead, not follow. (There are 1080 media center extenders on the market already.)

You mean like they lead the mobile revolution by incorporating their mobile phone with a previous generation radio? IPhone will not sell outside US and other 3rd world mobile network countries for this reason.

Apple is putting a lot of faith to their capability of spinning major successes out of less than leading egde technologies. Let us hope they will not fail.

That said, I still do not believe Apple TV is lacking anything without 1080p support. Internet forums are crowded with people who have eaten the full-hd-is-the-only-hd-pill but that does not change the reality that very few customers have access to such content in near future. And it is not like these devices have a life expectancy any longer than three years anyway.

 

[FleurDuMal]

I use my MacPro with frontrow software that I downloaded, I guess illegally. I think apple will cut me some slack as ai dropped 4 G's on a computer. I run it through the aforementioned plasma using DVD and the MacPro's D/O out into my Surround sound system. One of my favorite things that I did, was to encode all of the DTS CD's that I own into Apple Lossless and play them through the surround unit.

Well, I think Front Row 2.0 will be coming as standard on all Mac's, so I'm gonna wait to see if that comes true. Still, Front Rows no fun to me without a remote. I do have a Macbook which I wanted to use as a pseudo-media centre, but getting home at night, plugging the external monitor into it, as well as my speakers and external hard drive is just too much of a hassle.

I assume you've found no way of getting surround sound from ripped movies though?

 

[Evangelion]

So, the best that you can say is that the iTV won't be obsolete until next year?

it wont be obsolete even then. 720p will be relevant for years to come. MAYBE next year 1080p might match the sales of 720p, but even then, the installed-base of 720p will be HUGE when compared to 1080p. Just because some newer tech manages to match sales of the older tech, does NOT mean that the older tech is suddenly "obsolete".

Supporting 1080p would cost them more, and the benefits would be marginal at best. Yes, the benefits would be quite substantial to those with 1080p-capable gear. But the problem is that those people are a miniscule minority when compared to those who have 720p-capable gear.

Hell, DVD is not even 720p, then surely by your logic DVD is already "obsolete"? Only problem is that... it's not. It's in fact doing better than ever before.

I think a lot of people are disappointed that Apple is releasing a new product line, and the first instance is clearly short of state of the art.

There's more to "state of the art" than some specs that are irrelevant to majority of consumers.

They expect Apple to lead, not follow.

Apple has always been about ease of use and design. Technical specs have been a secondary issue to them.

 

[displaced]

Yes. Personally I cannot wait to spend a month ripping a shelf-full of DVDs just to be able to stream the content wirelessly (as opposed to the serious trouble of moving the disc around in my hand) with STEREO AUDIO and NO SUBTITLES. How's that for an option?

Yep -- that's the killer for me too...

In fact, ripping the DVDs isn't too much of a problem for me. It's a hassle certainly, but I'd get through it eventually. The deal-breaker is that the resulting file is not functionally equivalent to the source. No 5.1/6.1 Dolby Digital/DTS audio. No subtitles. No menus. No bonus features. Even though the interactivity of the DVD standard is limited, sometimes it's really nicely implemented (multiple angles, etc.) - I'd lose that too.

I think I'll stick to using my Mac Mini, outputting at my HDTV's native resolution and with Front Row. Sure, I might have to walk a few metres to retrieve and insert DVDs, but I'll live with that.

However... what's a guy got to do to make Apple add VIDEO_TS or DVD ISO support to Front Row? Who do I need to bribe/stalk/hug to make this happen? Seriously. Although I might pass if it turns out to be Bertrand Serlet I'd have to hug. He weirds me out a little bit. Schiller I'd probably high-five.

 

[MobyIck]

What about Dolby 5:1??

720P 1080P

Who cares.

What I want to know....

Is there a way to play dolby 5.1 encoded into the video files. I'd love to rip all my dvds but whats the point if we can only have the audio dumbed down to stereo.

The lack of a volume button is a non issue. I feel for all you gear-heads that have a dvd player, vhs, tivo etc and havent yet purchased a universal remote. I've used a harmony for two years and NEVER pick up anything but. It drives my apple remote, xbox-hd ETC. If you haven't gotten one, they work great with the mac....

 

[outlyer]

The price

People seem particularly fixated on the $299.99 price point, but that's about average for a product in this category. Netgear just released a similar product; it supports more codecs - though not well according to AVSForum. It also has no hard drive, only does 802.11g and has a pretty nasty looking UI. It is priced higher than the AppleTV unit.

If you don't want HD or modern codec support, you might be able to save $50.00-$100.00, but I think this is pretty much where the price point is right now.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I'm somewhat of an admitted Apple fanboy, owning almost one of every piece of hardware Apple has come out at some point (I think Xserve might be the exception -- that would truly be overkill ) but AppleTV really doesn't interest me - as-is today and here is why:

iTunes movies are too expensive for what they are. If they were high res, I'd be more interested, or if you could rent std res on demand I'd go for that too.

Even though you can stream anything iTunes will play to AppleTV why would anyone rip a DVD just to stream to AppleTV? I've got a lot of Vodcasts on my iTunes, but I'm perfectly happy watching them on my Mac. Most are only 5-15 min long anyway.

As for 1080p support, that is really putting the horse before the cart. What 1080p content is there other than Blu-Ray and HD-DVD? And if you did spring for a 1080p TV, then certainly you can afford a BRD. Why hassel with AppleTV?

Bottom line is that the AppleTV just isn't all that exciting right now. Maybe there are features in Leopard that will bring it to the next level, and turn it into some sort of slingbox/DVR beast but right now it's just a crippled Airport Express w/ Video.

 

[Avatar74]

I like the device, but Apple was stupid for not putting a Y/C output on it.

-mark

So you can do what exactly... connect it to a standard-definition TV only to find out your TV can't display the progressive signal?

Trying to support interlacing introduces myriad problems because of the extended codec support needed. Also, because the datacenters would need to carry interlaced files as well as progressive files or the hardware would have to interlace and re-map the fields on the fly (changing the frame rate of their own content from 24p to 30i)... basically just making AppleTV more expensive so that the shrinking number of displays without Component or HDMI can be supported.

 

[SPUY767]

Well, I think Front Row 2.0 will be coming as standard on all Mac's, so I'm gonna wait to see if that comes true. Still, Front Rows no fun to me without a remote. I do have a Macbook which I wanted to use as a pseudo-media centre, but getting home at night, plugging the external monitor into it, as well as my speakers and external hard drive is just too much of a hassle.

I use a Interlink Electroics wireless mouse which I've mapped specific keys to to control frontrow, and I use a long DVI cableto ru to the television. The mac is not physically that far from the TV, it just has to go through a wall to get there. I can use the Mac normally, with front row only chewing up about 3% of the processor cycles on a second display, but when I want to watch movies, i just change the TV input and it works like a champ.

I assume you've found no way of getting surround sound from ripped movies though?

If I rip a movie and put the uncompressed DTS stream as the Audio, when played without a DTS decoder it will sound like static, but when run out of the D/O port, into the surround sound, it comes out perfectly. I don't know if that helps. You can't do that with Handbrake from what i've seen, I have to use Mac The Ripper and Some other App whose name I can't remember because it's too early. Oh, and I had to use VLC for playback when i did that, although, I'm sure that quicktime would do it properly if I just re-encoded the audiotrack to some other lossless format like AIFF.

 

[jk8311]

AppleTV will NEVER have DVR functionality. Get over it. It is what it is. Sure they may introduce new features as the device matures, but recording television will NEVER be one of them. Apple wants to be your source of content. They want to kill cable and satellite and DVD. Downloading content from iTunes is their business model. Period.

They won't be killing Cable and Satellite then.

DVR's won't KILL the cable and satellite market. It feeds off the cable and satellite market. What the DVR kills is the current advertising model using standard 30-second commercials. DVR's need the cable and satellite market in order to be of any use. iTunes and YouTube (i.e. the beginnings of Internet TV) won't even kill the cable/satellite market...it simply introduces a disruptive technology that will spur competition.

 

[SPUY767]

it simply introduces a disruptive technology that will spur competition.

Did you read The Innovator's Solution, or Dilemma, because the term disruptive technology is used extensively in both.

 

[GregA]

I have an HDTV, and it's just 720p. I think most people still don't even have that, do they?

Most HDTVs are 768 lines.

I watch off an old tele, so this won't be for me. But my parents will enjoy it. Long story short, my parents get a HDTV installed tomorrow (replacement for old plasma).

It is 768lines - so 720p will be great. But it does that at 50 or 60Hz - not at 24Hz. I checked multiple plasmas and they don't list 720p24 as an option - just 720p50 and 720p60.

Does this have any effect? Will Apple's 720p24 work on most 720p HDTVs??? Or is it a smaller portion?

 

[koobcamuk]

How many people have worked out that the iphone will be able to control the TV right out of the box? Maybe even stream content to the iphone/save to iphone directly. That would be cool. A multitouch remote control.

 

[e-coli]

For the life of me I don't understand this product. I get what it does, but I'm not impressed. A missed opportunity to do somethiing revolutionary.

 

[Simon R.]

It can't even play DivX (or MPG1/2 for that matter as far as I know). for crying out loud... If it could stream my DivX movies from my Mac/PC I would get one. For now, it's useless until Apple lets it stream all kinds of files in all resolutions. Can it even stream MP4 in PAL/NTSC or is that limited to 640x480?

 

[sailnavy]

All about Real Estate

I think people are looking at the Apple TV wrong. Apple is putting this little box that has all kinds of potential built in right next to the TV. Its only the beginning. It's OS X based, so it will be easily upgradable. It has Video and Audio connections, a Remote input, and USB Port and can stream from the Mac.

What possibilities does that offer?
-Play DVD's from your Mac through to the TV (I think allowing people to toss their DVD player would be huge, ripping it causes content protection problems, that streaming doesn't).
-Stream Video from iTunes
-Access any copy of iTunes in your house
-Open the door to iTunes on PC's
-Don't have to string cable's to the TV
-Why not pop your laptop screen up on the big screen for some work?
-Why not use the BT Keyboard and BT Mouse with the laptop on the Big Screen?
-Use the Apple TV to put up iPhoto slideshows at parties
-Control and Access all your music from your good home theatre system
-Buy movies from the TV
-Buy TV shows from their TV
-Host a printer
-Host a RAID drive
-Attach a USB Hub

That's just where I'm thinking they're going to go, and I'm not all that creative. Some of those options are supported, none are impossible, or really much of a stretch. Once you buy it, it's all about the software.

 

[GregA]

If it could stream my DivX movies from my Mac/PC I would get one.

Where do you get your DivX movies from?

* Can you already got what you're looking for in a 480p iPod version?
* If they became available in a 720p AppleTV version would you use it instead of your DivX?

Seriously - is there a reason, for you, to stay using DivX?

 

[arn]

Here's a link to the full review

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB117443716237743525-AC8bUe8X978hZmC7A85mAccsld8_20080320.html

 

[Poff]

Yes. Personally I cannot wait to spend a month ripping a shelf-full of DVDs just to be able to stream the content wirelessly (as opposed to the serious trouble of moving the disc around in my hand) with STEREO AUDIO and NO SUBTITLES. How's that for an option?

Don't know about the audio, but at least you can have subtitles.

 

[paulyras]

Visions of the future

I have no idea about the prospects for an appleTV DVR, but keep in mind that everyone who has appleTV in it's current manifestation must have a computer somewhere in the house. If you want a DVR, plug an eyeTV in to your computer, and have it format for iPod / appleTV. You lose the ability to pause live TV, but for someone who travels all the time for work, all I care about is being able to see best week ever, the soup, and the rest of my (even more embarrassing) addictions when I get home.

I do have two predictions though...

1. Expect to see a lot more QT encoded stuff on TPB and torrentspy

2. As for the appleTV / and the iTunes store, expect to see a la carte CHANNELS on the store. You want MTV's shows? Perhaps $15 per month. All of the Viacom content? Perhaps $30. Broadcast networks, eh, say $10. The ability to DL and view any show any time from a given network would be incredible. Far less than subscriptions for individual shows, but if they can get massive adoption, it will more than make up for it.

The FCC and congress has been threatening the cable industry for years if they didn't make a la carte channels possible. Perhaps apple has visions of leapfrogging the cable industry altogether.

Even better. Remember the rumors about a bittorrent like network for distribution of iTunes content and software updates? Well, there's your potential live channels (important for sports, news, etc...)

A guy can dream...

 

[CoreWeb]

You mean like they lead the mobile revolution by incorporating their mobile phone with a previous generation radio? IPhone will not sell outside US and other 3rd world mobile network countries for this reason.

You are assuming, of course, that Apple won't add 3G before shipping to other countries. And did you mean 3rd world, or simply non-US, such as Europe? Because do real 3rd-world countries have much of a cell phone system, yet alone 3G?

I'm not convinced that 3G won't be in the FIRST revision of the iPhone. Apple hasn't said that it won't be, they've simply not said it was.

Now, as for the AppleTV, I agree that the lack of 1080p is not really a problem. Interesting to note, the AppleTV does actually support 1080i as an output resolution, but not only is 720p supposed to look better, Apple doesn't support 1080 anything for video decoding.

 

[spicyapple]

<regular consumer>
Nobody seems to be excited by the fact it's only 8 inches square and 1 inch high! This is AppleTV's biggest selling point! That fact it syncs effortlessly with iTunes is gravy.
</regular consumer>

 

[justflie]

Video Review

Hey folks

Head on over to engadget to see a video review of the ATV from Walt and company, I'm watching it now. See the ATV in action!