Apple TV Review by Walt Mossberg

[CaptainScarlet]

Do you have a black-and-white TV, or did you make the leap to color technology? Did you wait until all content was color before making the switch?

Thats such an absurd analogy here...Totally different in every way possible...


BW to Color changed EVERYTHING for TV...


720 to 1080 changes NOTHING for TV...

 

[ObsidianIce]

you need this or the 980 perhaps. It handles everything and you can add all functions since it learns as well.

There's only one volume level I touch... my receiver's. Everything going into it is line-level from each respective source. The consequence of this is that I've tried programming a universal remote to do everything but the fact of the matter is that my individual remotes have so many unique functions that no one universal remote can be programmed with all of them... so inevitably I'm using multiple remotes anyway.

If the Apple remote is a standard remote then here's your answer to the multiple remotes...

Program the Apple remote functions into a universal remote that also controls your TV and, if applicable, your receiver.

That's the right way to do it.

But... if you're really antsy, let me just say that I have a very, very strong suspicion that the iPhone will serve as a "universal remote" to AppleTV using CoverFlow via multitouch as your content navigator and possibly some programmable functions.

As for people worried about not having all the functionality they want in Rev 1 of AppleTV, I'd relax... The hardware is quite sufficient and it's largely just a matter of software updates which will come. Based on the hardware specs, I don't think rev 1 of the AppleTV hardware will need to be replaced for some time.

 

[Ibjr]

I kept hoping that they would release "hidden" features. The author keeps referring to future expansion giving the reader absolutely no reason to purchase it now. iTV seems to be a high priced solution in search of a problem.

 

[APPLENEWBIE]

Solution the the volume/remote issue

If apple wants to be in the home entertainment hardware business, how about a killer universal remote?

 

[syklee26]

i thought with normal human eyes you can't differentiate between 720p and 1080p.

 

[eenu]

This isn't exactly surprising, as there's probably no standard way to change the TV volume via some input cable, and doing it directly via the remote would mean you would have to program your Apple remote like you would do a universal remote -- i.e.: a pain in the butt.

NO HDMI carries audio. You should be able to change the Apple TV output volume up to the maximum setting you have your TV at. If you wanted to increase the max you would then have to up your TV setting. Much like i do on my iMac with my speaker volume. I haven't touched the speaker volume button on them for 2 yrs, i simply shange the output on the Mac.

 

[gnasher729]

That's completely worthless because there aren't any HDCP-compliant Mac graphics cards or displays yet.

You wouldn't need that for an iMac or a MacBook/MacBook Pro.

 

[NightStorm]

You all have been brainwashed into thinking you MUST HAVE 1080p to watch anything good on TV. TV is just that...TV...Channels are SO limited at 1080p it not even funny. It's just a marketing ploy to get you to buy the next best thing and trash your old TV. Which could go another 15 years without replacing....

I mean come on people, how defined do you need Debbie doing Dallas, really...

Actually, there are no channels currently broadcasting at 1080p, only 1080i. I'd be surprised if we ever saw 1080p be broadcasted; a lot of the infrastructure that was upgraded to support 720p/1080i would need to be upgraded/replaced, and the broadcasters are not likely to want to go through that additional expense anytime soon. Also, I'm not sure if 1080p is even an ATSC-approved spec.

 

[MarcelV]

NO HDMI carries audio.

I may misunderstand your comment, but HDMI does carry audio. It carries both the video and audio signal digital. In fact, it can carry up to 1080p and 8 channel audio at this time. DVI does not carry audio.

 

[Rocketman]

it's going to need a lot of good reviews to get beyond the lack of 1080p support and streaming of only iTMS material....

Doesn't that capability merely require the upgrade from a $299 Apple TV to a $599 Mac-Mini or equivalent PC computer?

I suspect Apple TV will display any "unprotected" content including any content a consumer unconcerned with protection schemes might have ripped.

Rocketman

 

[uNext]

Like i will actually consider a review by a person that is on apples payroll??

Get real-is like actually finding bad news about -exploding batterys,hum noises ,overheating, dropped wifi signals, aiport extreme nto delivering like it should etc on apples hot news page.

I will wait for REAL people to actually test this out and provide feedback.
Because only REAL people not on the medias payroll will have a review worth reading or considering.

So far the macmini with displayconfigx is working perfectly for me.
And if the apple tv proves to be something worth 299.99
then the mini will be my media server.

 

[bbrosemer]

That is on below 30'' screens... Moreover I think that the real reason that 1080p is not being supported by apple is becasue they plan on putting 720p on there iTMS. 1080p videos would be even more giganitic in size. The hidden features said the be awaiting the iTV could just be the 720p content with the support of an external HD. Moreover that also leads me to believe that a hidden feature on the iTMS/Leopard will be bit-torrent iTMS file sharing after purchase to lower the bandwith costs for apple...

i thought with normal human eyes you can't differentiate between 720p and 1080p.

 

[roland.g]

Wow. Talk about minimizing huge limitations.

Basically limited to watching itunes content. Can you imagine how neat this machine would have been had they implemented Slingbox functionality?

it's going to need a lot of good reviews to get beyond the lack of 1080p support and streaming of only iTMS material....

2nd or 3rd revision and this thing might have the features to bring the computer to the living room. The current offering won't cut it, imo.

i would have loved to have seen slingbox like functionality oh well.

Just to list a few.

Sometimes I call my wife Captain Negatron.

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

tv wasn't designed to be complicated or cater to your personal desire. If you want to get an XBox 360 or a Slingbox or a Mini to tailor your personal content delivery setup, then do it.

Honestly no other company innovates as much as Apple and yet gets so much criticism over how they do it.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Well mine does. The fact that people would not "expect" this is INSANE! For $300.00 it had better control my volume. I'm really lost on this product, much hype and little delivery. So what your saying is that for $300.00 you get a lil box that does nothing more than stream content that apple has dubbed streamable and nothing more. Something dosent seem right about this. This man has had this thing for 2 weeks, prior to them shipping directly from japan. Think maybe he had a test unit that was not fully finished?

I'd pay extra to not have the superfluous volume control. It's useless. More than useless, it's an annoyance.

 

[winglian]

AppleTivo

The ideal situation for me actually involves pulling content from my Tivo using TivoDecode Manager back to my Mac which then can be pushed to the AppleTV in another room. Thus I can watch my recorded show when and where I want.

TivoDecode Manager converts Tivo content into iTunes compatible content and supports queuing, so there is really not much effort involved and the AppleTV paradigm is to move iTunes content away from the computer back to the TV, so I believe this is one of the "ideal" situations for the few Mac+Tivo+TV owners out there. Just my $0.02.

 

[vincebio]

Wow. Talk about minimizing huge limitations.

Basically limited to watching itunes content. Can you imagine how neat this machine would have been had they implemented Slingbox functionality?

'export to apple tv' from quicktime means you can export anything to it for playback...so no, not just your iTunes library.

 

[AidenShaw]

That is on below 30'' screens...

Originally Posted by syklee26
i thought with normal human eyes you can't differentiate between 720p and 1080p...​

...and it depends on the original source. An SD signal upconverted to 720p, 1080i or 1080p looks like crap unless the screen is small (or equivalently, far away).

On a big screen with superb source, 24-bit 1080p looks like crap compared to 30-bit or 36-bit 1080p.

The people who say that 1080p does nothing over 720 haven't seen a side-by-side comparison on a good, large screen with superb original source.

 

[gugy]

three things for AppleTV to get a big foot on the entertainment room.

1) 1080p support
2) 5.1 audio
3) cool, new universal remote.

on the side, I would love a seamless integration between AppleTV, iTunes and Elgato software and hardware to use it as DVR. That would be crazy cool.

Another thing that would be awesome is that AppleTV being self-sustained. Meaning that we do not have to have the Mac on all times to record content out of a dvr solution.

I guess all the above on version 5.0 seven to ten years down the road.

 

[nagromme]

Could you link to one of his negative reviews?

3 seconds in Google

http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2005/08/15/sections/business/article_634323.php

Microsoft's mouse is better than Apple's

Clashing design goals make the Mighty Mouse harder to use than competing mice.

By WALTER S. MOSSBERG
Wall Street Journal

A trickier challenge: find a Mossberg Apple review (a full review, not an excerpt) that fails to mention any negatives! He disses Apple on particulars all the time. Or for that matter, find a reviewer you prefer: one who is more likely NOT to say nice things about Apple products. The fact is, irritiating as it may be, Apple stuff tends to please reviewers in general, not just Mossberg. And like Mossberg, most will also point out negatives along the way.

"Mossberg usually likes Apple products, therefore when he likes Apple products his opinion is paid for by Apple under the table" is always a good stance to parrot, though People should keep that one in the arsenal for sure Reviewers who sometimes appreciate ease and simplicity and great industrial design, and sometimes don't appreciate it, are MUCH more to be trusted than ones who are consistent

A lot of you seem to be quite confused as to the point of the Apple TV. It is NOT a niche product. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Let's come at it from the other end: Apple wants to be your content provider for ALL media. Music, TV shows, Movies. Not a bad goal, and Apple seems poised to be able to do it.

Apple WANTS it, yes And it could even be a good enough system to appeal to a lot of people. Someday!

For now, it IS a niche product, beacuse Apple canNOT be provider of all (or even most) video content. They simply don't have the content.

It's a step towards something more in future, but what they can offer AppleTV users right NOW will meet the needs of only a small niche.

So "it's a niche product" is true. And "it's much more than that" may also be true--eventually.

EDIT: And no, there's no technical reason the device could not cheaply support older TVs. Apple's simply not interested in that (not-so-tiny) market it would seem. Maybe so the menu text can be smaller and still readable? I know Apple probably wants to push HD at some point (maybe even soon) but they could still sell units to people without HD sets.

 

[BigHat]

I guess most people buying an AppleTV have a $1000+ TV and a $400+ surround sound system already. You have one giant remote for the sound system anyway, which is good if it sports audio-compression (makes sound levels more even, i.e. reduces dynamics) so you can watch movies late at night without having to make it louder for dialoges and wake up your neighbor in action sequences.

I certainly can appreciate those on a tight budget or with other competing priorities, but it's clear to see, based on this thread, that there is little connection between the Home Theater (HT) crowd and Mac lovers.

For one, many don't even understand the basics of HT and what constitutes a good addition.

I stream lossless iTunes music to an optical out of an Airport Express and pump it into about $60K worth of audio and video gear. I have to control the playlists from a laptop.

To gain a video link to those playlists and select cuts remotely without a laptop is easily worth $300 to me. The fact that I can sync up photos and maybe show a movie or movie trailers now and then is just an added benefit. Actually show selected previews before showing movies to friends is kind of an interesting idea to me.

If you don't have a use for this device I understand. But to assume no one possibly could because you don't is pretty naive.

 

[tk421]

Trying to support interlacing introduces myriad problems because of the extended codec support needed. Also, because the datacenters would need to carry interlaced files as well as progressive files or the hardware would have to interlace and re-map the fields on the fly (changing the frame rate of their own content from 24p to 30i)... basically just making AppleTV more expensive so that the shrinking number of displays without Component or HDMI can be supported.

Well, in addition to sycho's comment, let me point out that an iPod over a year old can output video to an interlaced TV. There are no problems or limitations to outputting to older TVs other than throwing the ports on the back.

 

[BigHat]

three things for AppleTV to get a big foot on the entertainment room.

1) 1080p support
2) 5.1 audio
3) cool, new universal remote.

QUOTE]

No, a cool universal remote is a mistake. Most people already have one. It's not an Apple core competency and good ones begin around $500 and go into the thousands. Expand the HD capacity etc, but don't add needless redundancy.

1080P support? maybe useful in 5 years. The BluRay - HD DVD battle rages, 1080P TVs are few and in sizes under 65" viewed at more than 8 feet the human eye can't detect a difference. Add to those the massive data content stream required and one must quickly acknowledge that this presently makes ZERO sense either.

 

[guzhogi]

Actually, there are no channels currently broadcasting at 1080p, only 1080i. I'd be surprised if we ever saw 1080p be broadcasted; a lot of the infrastructure that was upgraded to support 720p/1080i would need to be upgraded/replaced, and the broadcasters are not likely to want to go through that additional expense anytime soon. Also, I'm not sure if 1080p is even an ATSC-approved spec.

According Wikipedia, HDMI supports up to 1440p. At this point, that's just ludicrous. Companies that produce TV are so used to doing things in standard def, they'd have to change a bit so higher resolutions look good. I forgot where I heard it, but on standard def, it looks good, but with high def, you can see distortions in makeup and different problems w/ the human body (moles, zits, veins, etc.). Kinda bad for porn.

 

[Doctor Q]

But... if you're really antsy, let me just say that I have a very, very strong suspicion that the iPhone will serve as a "universal remote" to AppleTV using CoverFlow via multitouch as your content navigator and possibly some programmable functions.

How many people have worked out that the iphone will be able to control the TV right out of the box? Maybe even stream content to the iphone/save to iphone directly. That would be cool. A multitouch remote control.

The iPhone as remote isn't suited to multi-person households, unless each person has an iPhone. iPhones go where you go, and you're not going to leave one sitting on the coffee table for the kids and everyone else to use as a remote.

If there are special features like transferring or ordering content via the iPhone, that's another story!

 

[DaveGee]

This is not a big deal for home-theatre folk. Those people will program their Apple remote into their universal remote and throw the Apple remote away.

arn

Fair enough but how about this scenario:

customer: The AppleTV looks pretty nice

apple-sales: It sure does! Oh, and it connects right up to your HDTV!

customer: Gee... really... How? I have 1 cable-box, 1 dvd player and my kids xbox 360! I've exhausted the 2 HDMI and 1 Component inputs* that are available on my $1K + HDTV (not an outrageous number of devices for someone to have and in fact I'd say most people with HDTVs have that many if not more boxes) so how exactly would I even be in a position to use this box?

(* Many older 1st/2nd gen and/or cheaper current gen HDTVs don't even have that many inputs)

It's a real problem and one the Apple sales reps better have a reasonable** answer to.

** and no a reasonable answer isn't to just unplug and replug the devices as you use them... The wife/kids/inlaws/outlaws/family dog just ain't gonna do it! Not to mention the constant plugging/unpluging of cables puts lots of stress on the connectors that are in the TV.

** and no a reasonable answer isn't to go somewhere else and try to find an HDMI switcher... First the prices (in the stores, if you can find one) are outrageous and the cheap switchers found on monoprice have many reports of devices and/or TVs simply not working with them and even if those were NOT issues do you really want to have to explain YET another REMOTE to your other-half? As it is most people have (and are using) distinct remotes for each of their devices since the vast majority of the 'universal remotes' simply suck or are missing out on functions that I need (like accessing the tv/dvd/cablebox/etc setup menu or DVR functions.

Finally the idea that anyone will be happy with setting the TV remote to 'input x' (whatever input # you have the hdmi switcher hooked up to) and then having to dig out the remote for the hdmi switcher (to then choose the input # that the AppleTV is connected to) and then digging out the remote for the AppleTV to turn it one and then having to dig out the remote for the HDTV to adjust the volume (since it was WAY TOO LOUD)...

While I was a big proponent of Apple doing something like this... they really screwed up by not including a function that would have allowed me to RETIRE ONE OF MY EXISTING DEVICES with the easiest being the upscaling DVD player I have connected now...

Totally bone headed move and because of it I fear the AppleTV may be doomed.

Dave