Fairly often for me... and in fact most recently I got my new Airport basestation (802.11n) two weeks earlier then the original quoted shipping date.
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Apple TV Shipments Pushed to March
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I am hoping with Leopard, ATV will (as rumored) support any output from Mac. I would love to be able to run my Final Cut HD editing out to my 50" Sony when editing 1080i footage.
If it does your point will be covered pretty well since then any media your Mac can play should got through ATV I would assume. It will be only the iTunes via ATV that will be pretty well locked to Apple's media / content if this rumor is true. If we can output a Keynote presentation why not a Real Media video?
All speculation I know but I suspect Steve is going to allow this beast to do far more than iTunes, albeit that will be great too I am sure with new offerings for HD coming soon.
Wont be useful? Why not? The Progressive Main Profile is 720p/24. That IS High Definition.
Or are you referring to the limitation of available HD source material (e.g. HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, ATSC cable/dish programming, etc.)? I agree the material is limited... but then again, as I stated in a previous post, I'm more interested in supporting the purchasing model even with initially-limited selections because I want to help drive home the point that internet distribution is profitable for the distributors, the artists, and better for consumers in the end.
What? H.264 is not "Apple media/content"... it's MPEG-4 which is not Apple Proprietary.
As for being "locked" into iTunes... Why don't users complain nearly as much about being "locked" into Windows when operating anything on Windows? or "locked" into Ford's fuel management system when driving any Ford car? or "locked" into 35mm when going to the movies?
iTunes supports Mp3, AAC, H.264, AIFF (16 and 24-bit integer, and 32 and 64-bit floating)... So the choices are limited, but I submit to you that a handful of the best choices are better than a plethora of crappy choices. And supporting quality-controlled media reliably is far better than supporting a lot of P2P downloads of unpredictable quality unreliably.
Who complains to a luxury car dealer because their Porsche seatcovers don't fit Chevys?
Get it at Vesion Tracker. Great app. In H.264 and double pass and 1200 bit rate it is a long process (I leave when going to bed) but the quality is way better than the default and given we are hoping to show on large screen obviously the higher the quality the better.
Re 720p: Accoring to Apple specs I read it as having that ability, perhaps I am wrong? :
[Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile]
Good point
(sorry if you read previous comment, I replied to the wrong comment ... doh!)
I was thinking that if ATV cannot output higher than 480p than why ... hmmm, am I missing something ? What I had understood is that you may send 720p to the ATV but the latter will downcovert to 480p (at least for now, I am a believer here and do expect this limation to go away soon).
And I agree 1000% with the rest of your comment. What I referred to wrt to HD material is that it sounds like a nightmare to me to ripp that stuff (but I do not know really). All I know is that ripping DVD now is a pita, but I have not tried many apps (particularly this hadnbrake mentioned here several times).
For those who already think the ATV is kinda useless, you should see what the situation is like outside the US, where no iTunes Store has movies and TV show yet. So that's $300 to play movie ... trailers on your TV. That thing is really going to bomb outside the US if they don't get their content deals fast!
I orderedTV first day... then cancelled it when I realised that I get more functionality from my networked TiVo and TiVo DeCode Manager.
I'll wait to see updates and upgrades, but for now, I think I'm too geeked out for it to be useful.
i don't know why everyone bags on
tv so much. I'm not really defending the functionality, but i think the logic behind it is, that they don't want you to have cable. They want your content to come from itunes, and that's why it works the way it works. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but i think that's the idea behind it.
I think *you* know *exactly* what we mean. You either have to rip DVD into a supported format, or download content from iTunes - i.e., no DivX, RealMedia, Windows Media ( non drm ) etc. If your not in the states you can't download movie / tv content - so that renders the iTV almost useless.
em500 - above - has it spot on.
Why people don't complain about lockin regarding other vendors? Because other vendors aren't nearly as restrictive as Apple.
Since when are you 'locked into Windows'? There are far far more choices on a windows platform than Apple - software, hardware etc. You don't have to use word - use can use Star/Open Office etc.
em500 - above - has it spot on.
Why people don't complain about lockin regarding other vendors? Because other vendors aren't nearly as restrictive as Apple.
Since when are you 'locked into Windows'? There are far far more choices on a windows platform than Apple - software, hardware etc. You don't have to use word - use can use Star/Open Office etc.
Not ragging on it at all, I'm just saying that it's for newbs and "right out of the box" peeps, which I think most people are. My point was that I'm rockin' the TiVo / iTS / DVD / Network and it's got more going on than TV, but that probably won't be the case for long.
If they threw a TiVo in there, I wouldn't even be writing this post cause I'd be doing my happy dance. The dancin' will just have to wit a revision or two.
TV, but that probably won't be the case for long.If they threw a TiVo in there, I wouldn't even be writing this post cause I'd be doing my happy dance. The dancin' will just have to wit a revision or two.
i don't know why everyone bags on
Not that I'm trying to be argumentative, but I did mean AAC, I was strictly referring to the sound part of the stream. Currently my iPod videos use 2-channel AAC audio muxed with h.264 video. If Apple wanted to support surround, they could shift 2-channel AAC to 5-channel AAC. h.264 is strictly a video codec.
The free AC3 Filter can, for example, transcode Windows Media Audio 5.1 into Dolby Digital 5.1 on the fly, for free. Dolby itself supports something called Dolby Digital Live which, according to them, is a: "real-time encoding technology." According to their materials, "Dolby Digital Live converts any audio signal into a Dolby Digital bitstream for transport and playback through a home theater system." It's consumer-level, and cheap enough to be included with some motherboards.
Hey don't buy one then OK.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a friendly discussion about what we can do with these new Apple toys amongst those of us that do want them and not have to hear the ranting of Trolls telling us how much better their Windows Media experience is?
It is kind of obvious. Apple knows that every analyst would be paying attention to Macworld and that if they didn't show the Apple TV it would fade out in the buzz over the iPhone. They were not finished with it but the knew they would need to show it at Macworld. That is why they showed it before the iPhone. Because they knew it wouldn't cmpare to the iPhone in terms of publicity. GO APPLE
You're absolutely right... that's correct. My error. AAC is, in fact, arguably superior to its predecessor, AC-3, at every bitrate.
Good points... I'm mostly familiar with the professional encoding hardware/software which is why I said "who knows"... I'm not as familiar with what they market to consumers for multimedia solutions, but that's only because I don't have to be. As long as I follow their encoding guidelines, I can trust that Dolby's licensed hardware/software decoders will play back the content I create. I don't know if AC3 Filter is a licensed decoder, but if it isn't I'd expect to see Apple use Dolby Digital Live as unlicensed encoders would compromise their relationship with Dolby (one of the key partners in the development of iTunes AAC) and, more importantly, would be unable to guarantee the fidelity standards for AC-3 as defined by Dolby Laboratories.
I'm on board with
TV no matter what... not because I believe it's fundamentally perfect. I know at first there will be issues and it'll get better... but despite whatever initial shortcomings it may have, I believe in the concept of pushing internet distribution of a-la carte programming as a dynamic alternative to bundled channels and fixed removable media (e.g. DVD, HD-DVD). Someone's got to get behind it to evangelize it to the second movers so it can survive and various competitive alternatives can emerge within the fold to increase supply and decrease cost.My main curiosity right now is what type of multichannel support will emerge and whether or not the metadata parameters of AC-3 (e.g. dialnorm, DRC profiles, etc.) will be preserved in the bitstream for use by the receiving decoder connected to the optical out on the
TV. If not, that would be unfortunate, as these parameters, combined with the higher bitrate of Dolby Digital in the home (448kbps) versus its theatrical implementation (320kbs), facilitates a surround experience superior in the home to that in the theater.Are you talking about the Airport Extreme or the
Apple TV. The Airport Extreme I ordered the same day arrived last week.
Qty.
APPLE TV-USA
Ships by: Feb 28
Delivers by: Mar 1
1
Shipped on: Feb 9, 2007 via FEDERAL EXPRESS
Tracking #: 752253xxxxxx (Pre-sign for this shipment)
My ship date hasn't changed, and as far as I can tell (and I've been looking), no one else's has. Where'd they get this info?
That's good news if true. When did you order? Like I said, I ordered within about 5 minutes of the store coming back up after the keynote. Mine still says shipping on Feb. 28.
Well if you do indeed get it by say Feb 13th.You will be one of the first to get it and also one of the the first to experience the updated Front Row if what Jobs showed at Macworld is any indication.
Actually not neccessary.
Depends where you live,and what the local laws are.
Around here (eastern scandihoovia) we are entitled to make copies for personal use,loan from libraries and make copies for personal use and even make copies and give/loan them to family members and friends.
So getting while getting all rewed up by the copyright issues, keep in mind that there are free,democratic countries in the world...
Theese copyright laws are allso the reason why theese countries have issues against DRM,apples foremost.
Hopefully the goverments force the Apple/media industry to take a bow on the matter,and we could get a bit more reasonable products for the consumers.
Sorry Everyone
My mistake. I clicked on the shipping notice below the Apple TV but that notice is linked to the HDMI cable order. So I do not have shipping status on the Apple TV.
I'm sorry.
My mistake. I clicked on the shipping notice below the Apple TV but that notice is linked to the HDMI cable order. So I do not have shipping status on the Apple TV.
I'm sorry.
Nice points, all.
Apple/iTunes Lock-in
For the record, I live in the US and have purchased ZERO content from the iTunes store, yet I still think the Apple TV will be pretty useful. The only necessity is that it IS an iTunes product. If you despise iTunes for whatever reason, this product is a non-starter for you. I think Apple figures they are okay here because of a little device called the iPod... plenty of people are happily using iTunes for their content already. Even video management is pretty solid now. I remember with iTunes 6.0 I swore it would be a cold day in hell when if I ever used iTunes for video management. Buy, in anticipation of the Apple TV I gave it a shot and I started using iTunes for video management and you know what? it works just fine. Leaps and bounds better than it was in the pre 7.0 era. And if I don't want to deal with iTunes I just drag the file to the desktop and I can use Quicktime proper.
Resolution
While maybe 720p is not quite as awesome as 1080p, getting ANY content in HD (anything above 480p) is near impossible at this point in time. Some random trailers and content recorded with HD Tivo, really. Fact is, the vast majority of content that even the most bleeding edge of us watch is 480p. Watching things in 720p would still be vast improvement for most things. People need to keep in mind that thing is limited by tech: as a *streaming* device, 1080p is just not feasible, even with draft N. Show me a device that can stream 1080p realtime without wires. By the time a new wireless spec comes around, I have no doubt the Apple TV goes 1080p. And, BTW, the Apple TV runs in 1080i for it's interface should you desire, it just can't handle content beyond 720p.
Music and TV Navigation
For those complaining that you "need" to use the TV for music with the Apple TV: how the hell else are you going to navigate thousands of songs? On a tiny LCD readout on you receiver? The TV navigation is a huge PLUS here! You can just turn off your TV once you've started playing your music if it bugs you (assuming your not using your TV's speakers...). There may be some negatives with video, but for music the Apple TV seems to be virtually flawless. Yes, other products do similar things but the interface is the key, as with all things Apple.
Surround Sound for DVD Rips
I will admit, the biggest puzzle/thorn has been the lack of surround for DVD rips. I am confident a solution will be found for this. That said, If I'm being really anal about video/sound quality I'm watching Blu-ray/HD-DVD anyway, not standard DVD, so no surround for standard DVD is not a deal breaker for me (but I understand it's probably a bigger issue for others). But aside from this: yes, Handbrake is awesome and dead simple and makes ripping DVD's a breeze and they work perfectly in iTunes.
Podcasting in the Living Room
One thing nobody has mentioned that I'm also very excited about is that this device will finally bring podcasting to the living room. I can integrate things like Rocketboom and TikiBar or whatever into my normal television programming rather than having the two segregated worlds of "things I watch on TV" and "things I watch huddled over my computer".
DivX/XviD and codec support.
Let's be real: these are the codecs of pirates. Yes, more legitimate uses have sprung up but by and large the mainstream world is ignoring these codecs. Apple supporting them would be akin to saying "we don't support pirated content" while winking and nodding. Yes, it would be a pain to have to re-encode the content you have, but think about how you got this content to begin with and you can see why Apple can get away with ignoring it. Technically, h264 is roughly as good (some say better, some say worse, I don't want to debate this particular point). Given that, and the fact you can't expect WMV support (Microsoft's fault more than Apples), what important codecs is the Apple TV really missing? Real? Real is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist anymore, so why even bother with it? I never even come across it anymore...
If I have component X and Y and Z, I can already do most of what the Apple TV can
Elegance and simplicity ARE features. I am very well capable of shoehorning some components together to mimic most of the Apple TV's features. But if the Apple TV exists, why bother? The interface and experience are more solid than anything else out there (save for Windows Media Center, but that's using a somewhat different philosophy and obviously doesn't work well if you want to stay with OS X).
So, if I got it right, the Apple TV is not useful to you if a) you hate iTunes; b) you have tons of Xvid/DivX files; c) you refuse to watch a DVD rip without surround sound d) your home-theater/lving-room set-up isn't really all that better than your Mac's screen and speakers. Otherwise, the Apple TV can offer all your computer media in your living room, with an interface superior to any alternative solutions, which is at least potentially useful to a lot of people. Is that fair?
Apple/iTunes Lock-in
For the record, I live in the US and have purchased ZERO content from the iTunes store, yet I still think the Apple TV will be pretty useful. The only necessity is that it IS an iTunes product. If you despise iTunes for whatever reason, this product is a non-starter for you. I think Apple figures they are okay here because of a little device called the iPod... plenty of people are happily using iTunes for their content already. Even video management is pretty solid now. I remember with iTunes 6.0 I swore it would be a cold day in hell when if I ever used iTunes for video management. Buy, in anticipation of the Apple TV I gave it a shot and I started using iTunes for video management and you know what? it works just fine. Leaps and bounds better than it was in the pre 7.0 era. And if I don't want to deal with iTunes I just drag the file to the desktop and I can use Quicktime proper.
Resolution
While maybe 720p is not quite as awesome as 1080p, getting ANY content in HD (anything above 480p) is near impossible at this point in time. Some random trailers and content recorded with HD Tivo, really. Fact is, the vast majority of content that even the most bleeding edge of us watch is 480p. Watching things in 720p would still be vast improvement for most things. People need to keep in mind that thing is limited by tech: as a *streaming* device, 1080p is just not feasible, even with draft N. Show me a device that can stream 1080p realtime without wires. By the time a new wireless spec comes around, I have no doubt the Apple TV goes 1080p. And, BTW, the Apple TV runs in 1080i for it's interface should you desire, it just can't handle content beyond 720p.
Music and TV Navigation
For those complaining that you "need" to use the TV for music with the Apple TV: how the hell else are you going to navigate thousands of songs? On a tiny LCD readout on you receiver? The TV navigation is a huge PLUS here! You can just turn off your TV once you've started playing your music if it bugs you (assuming your not using your TV's speakers...). There may be some negatives with video, but for music the Apple TV seems to be virtually flawless. Yes, other products do similar things but the interface is the key, as with all things Apple.
Surround Sound for DVD Rips
I will admit, the biggest puzzle/thorn has been the lack of surround for DVD rips. I am confident a solution will be found for this. That said, If I'm being really anal about video/sound quality I'm watching Blu-ray/HD-DVD anyway, not standard DVD, so no surround for standard DVD is not a deal breaker for me (but I understand it's probably a bigger issue for others). But aside from this: yes, Handbrake is awesome and dead simple and makes ripping DVD's a breeze and they work perfectly in iTunes.
Podcasting in the Living Room
One thing nobody has mentioned that I'm also very excited about is that this device will finally bring podcasting to the living room. I can integrate things like Rocketboom and TikiBar or whatever into my normal television programming rather than having the two segregated worlds of "things I watch on TV" and "things I watch huddled over my computer".
DivX/XviD and codec support.
Let's be real: these are the codecs of pirates. Yes, more legitimate uses have sprung up but by and large the mainstream world is ignoring these codecs. Apple supporting them would be akin to saying "we don't support pirated content" while winking and nodding. Yes, it would be a pain to have to re-encode the content you have, but think about how you got this content to begin with and you can see why Apple can get away with ignoring it. Technically, h264 is roughly as good (some say better, some say worse, I don't want to debate this particular point). Given that, and the fact you can't expect WMV support (Microsoft's fault more than Apples), what important codecs is the Apple TV really missing? Real? Real is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist anymore, so why even bother with it? I never even come across it anymore...
If I have component X and Y and Z, I can already do most of what the Apple TV can
Elegance and simplicity ARE features. I am very well capable of shoehorning some components together to mimic most of the Apple TV's features. But if the Apple TV exists, why bother? The interface and experience are more solid than anything else out there (save for Windows Media Center, but that's using a somewhat different philosophy and obviously doesn't work well if you want to stay with OS X).
So, if I got it right, the Apple TV is not useful to you if a) you hate iTunes; b) you have tons of Xvid/DivX files; c) you refuse to watch a DVD rip without surround sound d) your home-theater/lving-room set-up isn't really all that better than your Mac's screen and speakers. Otherwise, the Apple TV can offer all your computer media in your living room, with an interface superior to any alternative solutions, which is at least potentially useful to a lot of people. Is that fair?
Tainted Apples
Not sure if this has been mentioned but do you think the Apple brand will be tainted by the Apple TV in their retail stores. They are going to have to bring TVs from other manufacturers in their stores. Unless they can conceal the casing, they will be be adding a Best Buy feel to the stores. I hope they release a TV line with the Apple TV interface and features built in. Hope they figure out something to not make the retail stores so riddled with brand confusion. Thoughts?
Chris
Not sure if this has been mentioned but do you think the Apple brand will be tainted by the Apple TV in their retail stores. They are going to have to bring TVs from other manufacturers in their stores. Unless they can conceal the casing, they will be be adding a Best Buy feel to the stores. I hope they release a TV line with the Apple TV interface and features built in. Hope they figure out something to not make the retail stores so riddled with brand confusion. Thoughts?
Chris
Are you serious? They already have all kinds of peripherals by other companies including digital cameras, printers, camcorders, headphones, etc for sale in Apple Stores. I don't think people are going to be confused because they see an Apple TV hooked up to a Sony (or Samsung or Panasonic or whatever) TV.