Apple TV Shipments Pushed to March

[curmi]

Nice points, all.
DivX/XviD and codec support.
Let's be real: these are the codecs of pirates. Yes, more legitimate uses have sprung up but by and large the mainstream world is ignoring these codecs. Apple supporting them would be akin to saying "we don't support pirated content" while winking and nodding. Yes, it would be a pain to have to re-encode the content you have, but think about how you got this content to begin with and you can see why Apple can get away with ignoring it. Technically, h264 is roughly as good (some say better, some say worse, I don't want to debate this particular point). Given that, and the fact you can't expect WMV support (Microsoft's fault more than Apples), what important codecs is the Apple TV really missing? Real? Real is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist anymore, so why even bother with it? I never even come across it anymore...

...

So, if I got it right, the Apple TV is not useful to you if a) you hate iTunes; b) you have tons of Xvid/DivX files; c) you refuse to watch a DVD rip without surround sound d) your home-theater/lving-room set-up isn't really all that better than your Mac's screen and speakers. Otherwise, the Apple TV can offer all your computer media in your living room, with an interface superior to any alternative solutions, which is at least potentially useful to a lot of people. Is that fair?

No, this isn't really fair.

Sure, DivX is used a lot for piracy. However, I have a tonne of stuff I've recorded off the TV over the years that is in DivX - encoded before I'd heard of H.264. Should be great re-encoding that. Other people are in the same boat.

Outside of the US there is no iTunes movie store. The best we can legally get in H.264 format are some Pixar shorts and music videos. Not really compelling.

I have a kick-arse surround sound system - so yes, if I'm going to have to rip my DVDs to H.264, I want full surround sound! Why should I be restricted to stereo only?!

I don't hate iTunes. I use it for all my Music. Tunes = Music. I have all my movies in my Movies folder - that is what it is for. Or at least used to be before Apple decided to make iTunes do everything. So now I'm forced to put all my movies/TV shows in to H.264 format, and put them in to iTunes, so I can watch them on TV. There is something wrong here.

Imagine back in 2001 - Apple released the iPod. Steve got on stage and said "This is the best portable music player ever! It plays AAC format music only". Everyone's music back then was in MP3 format. No one would have been willing to re-encode all there music to AAC format. And yes, most people I know had a fair amount of pirated MP3s - and Apple knew that too. So Apple supported MP3s. Later it supported both MP3s and AACs.

All Apple had to do with Apple TV was have it play some more formats that are in common use (and play surround sound, which I can't believe Apple would be stupid enough to leave out, and hope that is an error). As I said earlier, the 720p only can be overlooked (though is poor from a marketing point of view). I had seriously been really looking forward to Apple TV.

In fact, the only thing that seems fair to say is that Apple TV has a great user interface. Everything else ties to you to H.264, iTunes and stereo sound. I wouldn't say Apple TV is the worst product ever from Apple - but it certainly is one of the weakest products released while on Steve's watch. I think Steve was too busy playing with his iPhone and didn't pay attention to what the Apple TV group were doing.

 

[balamw]

Sure, DivX is used a lot for piracy. However, I have a tonne of stuff I've recorded off the TV over the years that is in DivX - encoded before I'd heard of H.264.

Part of the negative associations of DivX ;-) as a "pirate codec" come from the fact that the first released versions were a hacked version of the Microsoft MPEG-4 codec to allow for AVI instead of ASF containers.

I too wish TV and iPod supported more codecs, at least MPEG-1 and MPEG-2, but I wouldn't expect DivX, WMV or OGG Theora since there are plenty of mutually incompatible content out there...

Stick with standards based codecs (and not de facto standards like DivX ;-)) and you'll have a better chance of having your media remain playable by the latest devices.

B

 

[Digital Skunk]

Stick with standards based codecs (and not de facto standards like DivX ;-)) and you'll have a better chance of having your media remain playable by the latest devices.
B

Yeah, I have learned that through my computing travels as well. I have over 60GB of movies and TV shows encoded in AVI format. Okay quality (on most LCD computer screens) but they can't play in iTunes or on iPods. So I want to encode them in QT or any format that QT can play so I can put them on my iPod 6G (when it comes out).

 

[balamw]

Yeah, I have learned that through my computing travels as well. I have over 60GB of movies and TV shows encoded in AVI format. Okay quality (on most LCD computer screens) but they can't play in iTunes or on iPods. So I want to encode them in QT or any format that QT can play so I can put them on my iPod 6G (when it comes out).

A small point, but AVI and QT(MOV) are just container formats which can contain lots of different codecs. QT plays plenty of AVIs out of the box and with Flip4Mac can play plenty of others. The iPod, less so.

B

 

[Digital Skunk]

A small point, but AVI and QT(MOV) are just container formats which can contain lots of different codecs. QT plays plenty of AVIs out of the box and with Flip4Mac can play plenty of others. The iPod, less so.

B

Thank you so much for that. A friend of mine told me that months ago but I forgot what he said about it. Now that you mention it, I will try to drag and drop my AVIs into iTunes and see if they work. Since I am a nerd.. I will have to go and learn what the heck a container file is... And I am supposed to be a college student... there goes my tuition... wasted on useless books

 

[Mr. Pippin]

I certainly don't consider it useless - but having no divX, and having to have everything in iTunes (ie, it doesn't even see your Movies folder on your remote machine) certainly limits the usefulness to many.

The 720p isn't a bit deal, but certainly limits the bragging rights when others (including Xboxs and PS3s) can do 1080p - unusual because you expect Apple stuff to be leading edge, which this device isn't in many ways (apart from the UI perhaps).

The lack of Dolby Digital for movies is still one the bigger bummers. Then again, so is the lack of DVD quality (640x480 max for Apple movies). If the quality and sound matched the DVD's I buy, I'd be a LOT more inclined to get one.

 

[Avatar74]

I was with you all the way up to the end there. What about digital movie projection and recording?

See, you make an excellent point there. It's an alternative... but while you're IN a 35mm theater, what are your choices? Either watch what's on that screen at that moment or go to another screen... and possibly another theater if there are no digital projection systems there.

Sure if you use only TV your choices are limited. But you can choose to buy a different product, or buy several products... just like you can choose to see a digital projection movie. That's my entire point. Choice is still there, and it's not just up to Apple to facilitate choice.

It's easy to confuse a company's choice to support limited formats as being monopolistic but a monopoly requires more than that... it requires enforcing barriers to entry in the marketplace. Apple isn't preventing other companies from making their own competing solutions supporting however many formats they wish to support. The end result is that the consumer can choose to buy or not buy TV

Using TV doesn't actually prevent you from using other products alongside it... even connected to the same television. And you're no more "locked in" while you are using it any more than you are "locked in" while sitting in that 35mm theater or driving that Ford with Ford's proprietary fuel management. Furthermore, using TV doesn't preclude you from running other solutions from the same Mac computer or network.

The TV is a piece of hardware that runs a specific type of software and interfaces with a specific type of software on your computer (which runs on Macs and PC's). Compare this to a DVD player. Why don't people raise nearly as much of a fuss that DVD players play only DVD Forum compliant MPEG-2 VOB streams and don't play H.264 and every other codec under the sun?

 

[Padriac]

No, this isn't really fair.

Sure, DivX is used a lot for piracy. However, I have a tonne of stuff I've recorded off the TV over the years that is in DivX - encoded before I'd heard of H.264. Should be great re-encoding that. Other people are in the same boat.

Outside of the US there is no iTunes movie store. The best we can legally get in H.264 format are some Pixar shorts and music videos. Not really compelling.

I have a kick-arse surround sound system - so yes, if I'm going to have to rip my DVDs to H.264, I want full surround sound! Why should I be restricted to stereo only?!

I don't hate iTunes. I use it for all my Music. Tunes = Music. I have all my movies in my Movies folder - that is what it is for. Or at least used to be before Apple decided to make iTunes do everything. So now I'm forced to put all my movies/TV shows in to H.264 format, and put them in to iTunes, so I can watch them on TV. There is something wrong here.

Imagine back in 2001 - Apple released the iPod. Steve got on stage and said "This is the best portable music player ever! It plays AAC format music only". Everyone's music back then was in MP3 format. No one would have been willing to re-encode all there music to AAC format. And yes, most people I know had a fair amount of pirated MP3s - and Apple knew that too. So Apple supported MP3s. Later it supported both MP3s and AACs.

All Apple had to do with Apple TV was have it play some more formats that are in common use (and play surround sound, which I can't believe Apple would be stupid enough to leave out, and hope that is an error). As I said earlier, the 720p only can be overlooked (though is poor from a marketing point of view). I had seriously been really looking forward to Apple TV.

In fact, the only thing that seems fair to say is that Apple TV has a great user interface. Everything else ties to you to H.264, iTunes and stereo sound. I wouldn't say Apple TV is the worst product ever from Apple - but it certainly is one of the weakest products released while on Steve's watch. I think Steve was too busy playing with his iPhone and didn't pay attention to what the Apple TV group were doing.

Your problems are fine except for one thing: they hold absolutely true for the iPod as well. Obviously Apple has not had any problems there, so why are all these codec issues going to be huge problems for the Apple TV while they weren't for the iPod? And yes, plenty of people complain about the DivX on the iPod as well, but my point is that it hasn't had any real detriment on sales. And others have noticed... what codecs does the Zune support, for example?

I abandoned the DivX ship as soon as h264 came around. To claim that the Apple TV will fail based on codec support when it has the same exact codec support as the most successful consumer electronics product of the last decade seems a bit silly, no?

And Mr. Pippin: the Apple TV and iTunes Store are not the same thing. The Apple TV supports 720p, but Apple does not currently sell 720p content. You can add your own 720p content if you like.

The only issue I'm with you on is the surround sound thing, but I'm confident this will be addressed in one way or another (it's just a software issue).

I think it's very fair to say that the Apple TV is a wireless iPod meant for the living room. No more, no less. If you have problems with the iPod, you'll have problems with the Apple TV. If you enjoy your iPod and wouldn't mind having that same experience in the living room, then the Apple TV might be worth considering.

(Am I the only person noticing the eerie parallels between the Apple TV and 1st gen iPod, right down to the complaints?)

 

[kalisphoenix]

It tends to irritate me when people say "but you can't record your DVDs... that's illegal!"

Remember, folks: if an act is against the law, that doesn't mean that the act is inherently wrong or that you cannot perform that act. It simply means that if anyone finds out, and if they care, and if it's financially advantageous to pursue the issue, and if they can convince a court of law of your guilt, and if the court of law determines that you shall be punished... then you might be punished for performing that act.

I don't really care what any corrupt government or its fat cat fishmongers say I can or can't do. I will continue to do what benefits my wife and me the most in any given situation, so long as it does not conflict with our ethical principles. If that means I get hauled in front of a judge for copying my DVDs onto my Mac mini, that's fine. I'll pay whatever fee is asked of me, if the alternative is going to prison (and not working, and incurring a larger debt than the original settlement). And then I'll get out of the courtroom, pirate as many DVDs as possible, and feel avenged.

You can't play the appeasement game with these commercial swine. If they try to penetrate your tight consumer orifice, you just have to get 'em in a headlock and sodomize them with a nail-studded broomstick. It's better to be a pirate than join the Navy.

 

[imacdaddy]

What is the source of all these Apple TV incompatible files?
What is the most mainstream source of downloadable content that you can find that won't play on the Apple TV without conversion (again, obviously WMV doesn't count since that's Micorsoft's problem)? This is a serious question: I'm trying to gauge if this is just an illegal Xvid/DivX thing or something joe average downloading legal files would also have trouble with.

Yup agreed, it' joe average complaining.

I'm not the one complaining though. I think the tv is great! As mentioned in the iPod, iTunes, Apple TV Discussion forum, I'm ready to purchase one as soon as someone can confirm if I can play my slideshows created from iPhoto...and I'm not talking about the slideshow ability in the iPods. Though this is not a deal breaker for me. I'm just waiting for some extra cashflow...getting Leopard first!

Regarding tv's USB port, there's more to it than what Apple claims it to be a port for servicing. That's just a crap answer to hide the real truth!!! Servicing is done via Serial or Ethernet port. Thetv has an Ethernet port. I assure you something else is planned for it...casual gaming?

I'm sure there's going to be a tivo like add-on or 3rd party stuff like the Miglia TVMini HD (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=D8973CD4&nplm=TH587LL/A)
will eventually find a solution to work from the tv box.

Only time will tell.

 

[Stella]

Hey don't buy one then OK.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a friendly discussion about what we can do with these new Apple toys amongst those of us that do want them and not have to hear the ranting of Trolls telling us how much better their Windows Media experience is?

So, your definition of troll is anyone that says a bad thing about Apple? Windows Media centre is way better than iTV, far more flexible ( especially with Xbox )

As it stands, due to excess limitations, iTV is useless outside the states, and as far as I'm concerned its DOA and so I won't be spending my money on junk that is iTV - but should I be prevented from posting my views on the matter - nope, of course not!

If Apple were so concerned about piracy - i.e., supporting Divx then Apple shouldn't support MP3 - because that format is widely used for piracy as well.

Damned right Kalis.

DVD ripping is not illegal in all countries, so saying "thats illegal" isn't necessarily the case. These morality "police" out there who spout crap like this ( i.e, "but its illegal" ) are as pure as virgins then? Never pirated any music, never drunk underage etc. Yea right, get real.

It tends to irritate me when people say "but you can't record your DVDs... that's illegal!"

Remember, folks: if an act is against the law, that doesn't mean that the act is inherently wrong or that you cannot perform that act. It simply means that if anyone finds out, and if they care, and if it's financially advantageous to pursue the issue, and if they can convince a court of law of your guilt, and if the court of law determines that you shall be punished... then you might be punished for performing that act.

I don't really care what any corrupt government or its fat cat fishmongers say I can or can't do. I will continue to do what benefits my wife and me the most in any given situation, so long as it does not conflict with our ethical principles. If that means I get hauled in front of a judge for copying my DVDs onto my Mac mini, that's fine. I'll pay whatever fee is asked of me, if the alternative is going to prison (and not working, and incurring a larger debt than the original settlement). And then I'll get out of the courtroom, pirate as many DVDs as possible, and feel avenged.

You can't play the appeasement game with these commercial swine. If they try to penetrate your tight consumer orifice, you just have to get 'em in a headlock and sodomize them with a nail-studded broomstick. It's better to be a pirate than join the Navy.

 

[Curtis72]

Apple TV is an iTunes media client. Apple TV isn't a media center computer or DVR.

It would be nice for Apple to add web browsing, E-mail, Address Book/iCal integration to the Apple TV device. Casual gaming would be nice as well. But I knowing ordered a $299 device plus tax for what was "advertised". It solves a nagging problem I have with the Airport Express and AirTunes. Airport Express works great, but I'm lazy. I cannot stand having to go my Mac, launch iTunes, select a play list, select Airport Express as the remote speaker, and then press play. Apple TV solves that problem for "me". I won't be purchasing any movies from iTunes Store. My Sony upconverting DVD player works just fine

So what are the alternatives? Well... I didn't just jump up and order Apple TV because I'm a Mac fanboy. I looked at EyeConnect a couple of years ago, but UPnP capable media devices seemed "iffy". Naturally, I couldn't find one that supported playing AAC protected iTunes music.

 

[caccamolle]

Nice points, all.


Music and TV Navigation
For those complaining that you "need" to use the TV for music with the Apple TV: how the hell else are you going to navigate thousands of songs? On a tiny LCD readout on you receiver? The TV navigation is a huge PLUS here! You can just turn off your TV once you've started playing your music if it bugs you (assuming your not using your TV's speakers...). There may be some negatives with video, but for music the Apple TV seems to be virtually flawless. Yes, other products do similar things but the interface is the key, as with all things Apple.

from your computer screen dude !!!! you are going to have a computer running already anyway, right !?!? Certainly if you are using a mini with the tv as your only monitor, well then you've got no choice.

TV navigation for music is totally useless in my view. Obviously there will be no need for it. From a music standpoint, ATV adds nothing compared to the A/X, at least in terms of practicality.

After all, it is called ATV for a reason, right ?

That is how I view it anyways.

Not rising to the bait Mr. Troll.

I think he's got some good points actually.

Not that I care, I indeed ordered ATV first and foremost to watch iTunes content on my TV. Something I already do by the way, but I have to use my laptop, very ugly next to my large TV and it risks burning up my whole house soon or later with the amount of heat it generates !!!!!.

PS: Apple should be selling these MacPro with a warning: after 10 minutes of use we advise resting the laptop due to fire hazard !!!

 

[curmi]

Your problems are fine except for one thing: they hold absolutely true for the iPod as well. Obviously Apple has not had any problems there, so why are all these codec issues going to be huge problems for the Apple TV while they weren't for the iPod?

An easy one. People are buying iPods as a music player first, video player second. Even Steve talks of the iPod in this way.

I have a video iPod. I watched quite a few things I recorded off TV while I was on holiday over Christmas and it was great. I did have to convert them to H.264, which wasn't so great. But it was only a small number compared to the stuff I watch every day - and the small screen meant less resolution so quicker encoding...I wouldn't play them on a HD TV set. And the screen is so small - I wouldn't want to be watching the iPod screen all the time anyway. Or encoding everything again to watch on it.

But primarily my iPod is a music player. With a bit of video playing thrown in. The Apple TV is a video player first.

 

[Maccus Aurelius]

I was really interested in this device, and I have a very large movie library in iTunes (almost all ripped via HandBrake). Music on my TV? Nah, I don't think I'll be doing that anytime soon. Television can't top my Klipsh system, not by a long shot. Viewing iTunes vids on my small widescreen TV sounds very attractive compared to the S-video connection, but at the same time I plan on getting a 23" Apple cinema display, so with a direct connection to the computer I may have no use whatsoever for a an ATV, especially since my macbook has the I/R port and remote setup already built in. Front Row is a very nice interface, and my mac already has that. Some people with 24" iMacs, macbook pros with 30" external display hookups and people with mac minis already being used as entertainment PC's will probably not find much use for ATV either, since people have already been finding ways to make their digital libraries into their central entertainment hubs.

The concept has tons of potential though. It's just that I don't know how many people are really concerned about ripping DVD's to stream to their television sets with HandBrake's assistance. I know lots of Mac users that are still unaware of this application. My uncle who has used nothing but macs his entire career is still unaware of the video and DVD conversion software we enjoy. Also, as mentioned before, the anemic content of the iTunes movie store is not enough to make this client really worthwhile.........yet. But with the lack of content overseas, it's even bleaker.

I personally don't get a rat's ass about DivX or Real. Hell, I can't remember the last time I used RealPlayer in all the years I used Windows systems. The only DivX content I've seen pirated videos, and the quality is generally unreliable. I have yet to see any legit content in Xvid.

But then again, this lack of support makes other hardware, in this case the Mac mini more attractive. Since it has OS X, it supports ALL codecs. I know I know that H.264 and so forth provide consistent reliable quality, but the fact that ATV basically supports the identical codec range to the iPod may be its undoing.

The main difference is the nature of the media device. iPods are able to get away with their tight codec support because they're small handheld portable extensions of iTunes. In the home, an extension of iTunes alone may sour the palette of many, since in the comfort of our homes an extension of our computer is expected to support all of the same content our computers do. But at the same time it relies on content copied directly into the iTunes library. So movies you don't copy into this list won't be seen by ATV. This isn't to say that the ATV is a poor product, but this puts more points on the side of the alternatives.

As much as I'd really like to support this ATV and purchase one, I'd much rather invest the $300 towards the 23" display since I'll be needing that for other things, but at the same time provides the high resolution that would be fantastic for watching movies in my living room (it's larger than my flat screen TV, and has better resolution). I have a small place, I don't require huge TV's to look at from afar.

 

[MacinDoc]

So, your definition of troll is anyone that says a bad thing about Apple? Windows Media centre is way better than iTV, far more flexible ( especially with Xbox )

As it stands, due to excess limitations, iTV is useless outside the states, and as far as I'm concerned its DOA and so I won't be spending my money on junk that is iTV - but should I be prevented from posting my views on the matter - nope, of course not!

If Apple were so concerned about piracy - i.e., supporting Divx then Apple shouldn't support MP3 - because that format is widely used for piracy as well.

Damned right Kalis.

DVD ripping is not illegal in all countries, so saying "thats illegal" isn't necessarily the case. These morality "police" out there who spout crap like this ( i.e, "but its illegal" ) are as pure as virgins then? Never pirated any music, never drunk underage etc. Yea right, get real.

As you correctly point out, some of the capabilities of ?TV cannot currently be used outside of the U.S., so one could argue that its current primary target is the U.S. Hence, not allowing activity that is illegal in ?TV's primary market would seem to make sense.

You are also correct that DVD ripping is not illegal in all countries. That does not mean that making copies for purposes other than backup is not immoral. I find it objectionable that in Canada we pay taxes on blank media because the government assumes that we will use it to make and distribute copies of copyrighted material. Instead of assuming that we will all steal intellectual material and taxing all of us to partially reimburse the industry for this theft, the government should make such theft illegal. Encouraging such theft only discourages artists from creating and distributing new material. If theft of music and video material was legal everywhere, what motivation would artists have to create new material, and what motivation would studios have to fund and produce it?

BTW, there actually are those of us who never pirated any music, never drank underage etc., and your comment assumes that everyone shares the same values as you, an assumption that is incorrect.

 

[powermac_daddy]

This is lame. They announced the products but they can't ship on time. $$$, people would die for that crap.

 

[Padriac]

Caccamolle
You either don't get it or you get it too well. If your TV and computer monitor are the same thing, then the Apple TV is completely pointless to you. Of course, just run front row on the mini. The Apple TV ONLY makes sense to people who who have a TV SEPARATE from their computer(s) (in their living room or wherever it is they want to watch stuff). Seriously, if you only have one "monitor" in your entire home then don't even waste your time on this thread... this product applies to you as much as horse feed applies to your car.

I'm not sure which product you are exactly referring to when you refer to the A/X (Armani Exchange?), but here is a typical Apple TV situation: your music is on your computer in your office upstairs. You are in your living room listening to Bob Dylan when you suddenly get the urge to listen to "Nevermind" by Nirvana. The Apple TV allows you to easily navigate from Dylan to that particular Nirvana album in a few seconds, all without having to move from the nice couch you are sitting on. If I had to get up to go to the computer, or even just the receiver to pop in the CD, to listen to this album than the Apple TV already wins. The Apple TV makes at least one electronics product completely useless: jukebox style CD players (you know, those 100-500 disc things). Using the TV to navigate my music collection seems perfect for me. I have no idea what you have against it... are you hoping for an AppleTV Shuffle or something?

If your argument is that everybody should have a computer hooked up in their living room, that's a separate issue (and I'll gladly do it if you give me the extra $300 and keep the content synchronized for me).

Curmi
The Apple TV may be more video centric than the iPod, true, but as much as the net seemed to predict failure, even the iTunes Movie Store is succeeding, and the TV shows seem to be a major hit. The iPod is transitioning from music + video to music/video. New video-centric iPods (think iPhone without the phone) will be hitting very soon. There is no mistaking that the iPod ecosystem is slowly assimilating video and that it will soon be just as crucial as the audio.

Video codec support can't be compared to the audio situation because there is no "mp3" in the video world, yet. If there was, MPEG-4 AVC (h264) would be a frontrunner along with VC-1. DivX is a drop in the bucket that applies to very very few. Yes, you happen to be one of those few and re-encoding will suck, but this isn't very different from switching from VHS to DVD or DVD to Blu-ray/HD-DVD. You start buying your new stuff in the new format (start encoding in h264) and you slowly replace the stuff you already have with the new format (re-encode your old DivX to h264). But, again, this whole surround sound thing needs to get sorted before this can truly work out.

Put more succinctly, DivX support is as necessaryy to the Apple TV as OGG/FLAC support is to the iPod. Not very.

And, for me, the Apple TV will be a music player first just like the iPod, so don't think the products are so dissimilar. However, just like the iPod did when it got video capabilities, I'm sure the Apple TV will lead me to more video use than I expect.

Maccus Aurelius
How exactly are you getting CONTENT to that Klipsh system? This is exactly what the Apple TV is for! I too have a nice set of Klipsh speakers and part of the reason I'm getting the Apple TV is to be able to funnel all my music through these speakers rather than the crappy computer speakers. Like a videogame system or DVD player, the Apple TV will pump sound to your receiver and video to your TV.

Obviously, the Apple TV is meant for those who do NOT (for whatever reason) have dedicated "media" computers. The Apple TV is the low-cost, easy-to-use alternative. Some people don't want the extra cost (the mini route still costs twice as much as the Apple TV) or complication (keeping content synced between computers, etc.). Obviously Front Row exists for a reason, so Apple is happy to give you both options.

I agree with your points about the Apple TV potentially being seen as an "extension of the computer" and thus expected to be more robust. But my original point still holds: where is all this supposed content that is not compatible with iTunes/AppleTV? Only a microscopic sliver of the population will ever know or care about "DivX". I have no proof, but I'm going to venture a guess that most legal, downloadable video content on the internet is iPod compatible (controlling for WMV).

 

[vkxonline]

Caccamolle
Put more succinctly, DivX support is as necessaryy to the Apple TV as OGG/FLAC support is to the iPod. Not very.

You put it perfectly.

 

[210]

Legal Stuff

As one person here already pointed out, I hope people realise that the law can be different from country to country. It may be illegal to rip a DVD in the US, but some country it may not be in which case there's nothing wrong in doing so and using AppleTV for it. As other people have pointed out, there are rules and regulations which don't make much sense and rather out of date. Because of this, people don't bother upholding them. Case in point would be the iTrip situation in England. It was actually illegal to use an iTrip here, but they changed the law so that now they are legal to use. Who is to say they will change other laws in the future too?

 

[adamcz]

The tv is uninteresting to me, because it does nothing to solve my problem of getting HD content onto my HD tv. I've never ripped a DVD in my life, and don't care to learn how (and even if I did, it still wouldn't be HD content).

Right now my xbox rents HD movies for around $5, and I don't have to walk over to my computer to initiate any of it. This is a vastly superior system to Apple's, and like millions of others, I already own it.

Apple is behind the curve at this point. Even if the xbox360 didn't play video games, it would still look like a better value to me.

360: $400, rents HD movies for $5 without getting up from the couch.
tv: $300, you can buy sub-dvd quality movies for $15 from your computer



I'm not trolling either. 25% of my net worth is in Apple stock, and I desperately want them to win this "living room war." They aren't getting it done though. They need to sell HD content on itunes, and let me buy it from the living room. Actually renting it would be far preferable, since $5 is better than $15 for something I'll only watch once.

 

[Stella]

BTW, there actually are those of us who never pirated any music, never drank underage etc., and your comment assumes that everyone shares the same values as you, an assumption that is incorrect.

( Btw that list isn't exhaustive - I highly doubt that these morality police have ever not done anything illegal, no matter how small - but I think you get my point anyway )


As you point out, its irritating that the tax on CDs etc assumes that everyone is illegal. On Friday in the Toronto Star the Canadian music industry was talking about trying to put the pirate tax back on mp3 players etc. That could add as much as $70 on the price of such goods, once more.

 

[Digitalclips]

So, your definition of troll is anyone that says a bad thing about Apple? Windows Media centre is way better than iTV, far more flexible ( especially with Xbox )

As it stands, due to excess limitations, iTV is useless outside the states, and as far as I'm concerned its DOA and so I won't be spending my money on junk that is iTV - but should I be prevented from posting my views on the matter - nope, of course not!
.

Seeing as you asked, yeah I'd say you come pretty close the definition of a Troll judging by what you write. There is nothing constructive in what you say here. "DOA", "JUNK" "Windows Media Center is way better" and so on ad nauseam.

 

[zblaxberg]

For all the hype that was generated by this product months ago, I think this is gonna be a flop like the hifi. If it had more useful features like the slingboxes I would pick one up. But, with the itunes movie library being so small I just don't get it. I am not gonna stream music from itunes and I hell am not gonna stick a dvd in my imac to stream to my tv. So, if this could record my cable shows or I could access my dvd collection on the road and stream it to my laptop while i'm away from the computer then ok, but I think this thing is gonna be DOA if it even gets out the DOOR.

there isn't anything special about iTV....sorry guys but I wouldn't even bother to buy one of them

 

[Stella]

Seeing as you asked, yeah I'd say you come pretty close the definition of a Troll judging by what you write. There is nothing constructive in what you say here. "DOA", "JUNK" "Windows Media Center is way better" and so on ad nauseam.

Well, if you see me as a Troll, then thats your problem!

Well, Junk, DOA, "Windows Media centre" is way better - so thats my opinion. Not trolling. But, it is a negative comment against Apple - but so what - aren't we allowed to comment negatively on Apple?

Windows media player is far more flexible, if you have an XBox you can do most of what what iTV does ( and more, i.e., play games etc ) - store the media locally on the XBox and off you go, in HD too. WMC supports a lot more media types, thus, its automatically more useful, IMO. As the above poster correctly pointed out, its not that much more than the cost of iTV - so better value for money, if you can afford it.

Maybe I should explained a little more why I thought iTV is junk. But summing up "if your outside of the states", iTV is of little value because of its strong tie-in to iTunes content sums this up fairly well ( thus, lack of TV shows and movies ).