Apple TV Shipments Pushed to March

[Digitalclips]

Nice points, all.


So, if I got it right, the Apple TV is not useful to you if a) you hate iTunes; b) you have tons of Xvid/DivX files; c) you refuse to watch a DVD rip without surround sound d) your home-theater/lving-room set-up isn't really all that better than your Mac's screen and speakers. Otherwise, the Apple TV can offer all your computer media in your living room, with an interface superior to any alternative solutions, which is at least potentially useful to a lot of people. Is that fair?

Right on

I just did an experiment out of pure interest. Fast DVD can RIP a DVD to a TS folder, MPEG Streamclip 1.8 can then join the VOB files (and fix time code) and out put 720p H.264 which loads and plays in iTunes and shows up on other iTunes on my network. Not fast nor elegant perhaps but it seems to point to the potential ahead.

 

[cgfour]

Are you serious? They already have all kinds of peripherals by other companies including digital cameras, printers, camcorders, headphones, etc for sale in Apple Stores. I don't think people are going to be confused because they see an Apple TV hooked up to a Sony (or Samsung or Panasonic or whatever) TV.

The shelf space of those devices are minial compared to putting out a few 42 inch televisions in the already small retail stores. I hardly recognize the other brands becuase they are usually tucked away in the back under the counters. These televisions depending on how much they choose to display, will take up a lot of realistate in the stores. Unless they have a small area for Apple TV, computer space would have to be sacrificed in order for it to be display. I'm just curious on how they are going to do it and how much it will take away from the initial view of the Apple devices.

 

[vkxonline]

How cool would that be if they lit a section of the store like the Apple TV promos?

 

[mduser63]

The shelf space of those devices are minial compared to putting out a few 42 inch televisions in the already small retail stores. I hardly recognize the other brands becuase they are usually tucked away in the back under the counters. These televisions depending on how much they choose to display, will take up a lot of realistate in the stores. Unless they have a small area for Apple TV, computer space would have to be sacrificed in order for it to be display. I'm just curious on how they are going to do it and how much it will take away from the initial view of the Apple devices.

My hunch is that they'll only dedicate a small space to the AppleTV, perhaps with only 2 or 3 actually out on display. A 42" TV is really not much bigger than the 30" displays, and they have several 30" displays at the Apple Store here.

 

[xenotaku]

Maybe they realized how stupid a product it is. Start supplying HD quality vids on iTunes, add DVR support, and then its a worthy product.

 

[Evangelion]

Video
- I can rip all my DVDs to disc and not have to deal with physical DVDs or DVD players but instead can browse and watch my entire movie collection without having to leave my chair (Thank you, Handbrake).

first of all, thats illegal. and while it might work for movies, what about tv-shows? when i put in one of my futurama-dvd's in my dvd-player, i get a nice menu where i can select the episode i want to watch. how would handbrake handle that? what about special features and subtitles? how long does the encoding take?

you say that mac mini would be too inconvenient. i say that handbraking my dvd-collection is too inconvenient. and with mac mini you would get a lot more functionality.

 

[steve_hill4]

What? H.264 is not "Apple media/content"... it's MPEG-4 which is not Apple Proprietary.

As for being "locked" into iTunes... Why don't users complain nearly as much about being "locked" into Windows when operating anything on Windows? or "locked" into Ford's fuel management system when driving any Ford car? or "locked" into 35mm when going to the movies?

I was with you all the way up to the end there. What about digital movie projection and recording?

 

[MacFan25863]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but do you think the Apple brand will be tainted by the Apple TV in their retail stores. They are going to have to bring TVs from other manufacturers in their stores. Unless they can conceal the casing, they will be be adding a Best Buy feel to the stores. I hope they release a TV line with the Apple TV interface and features built in. Hope they figure out something to not make the retail stores so riddled with brand confusion. Thoughts?

Chris

They could do what they do with the Genius Bar plasmas now...conceal them behind a plastic case.

Here is an example of what I am talking about.

 

[Digitalclips]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Padriac
Video
- I can rip all my DVDs to disc and not have to deal with physical DVDs or DVD players but instead can browse and watch my entire movie collection without having to leave my chair (Thank you, Handbrake).


first of all, thats illegal. and while it might work for movies, what about tv-shows? when i put in one of my futurama-dvd's in my dvd-player, i get a nice menu where i can select the episode i want to watch. how would handbrake handle that? what about special features and subtitles? how long does the encoding take?

you say that mac mini would be too inconvenient. i say that handbraking my dvd-collection is too inconvenient. and with mac mini you would get a lot more functionality..

OK I know this is going to start a storm.

In my humble opinion, if you buy a DVD you should have the right to make a copy to watch on your own laptop or whatever. Who never taped an LP (well those around when there were LPs lol) to save it getting scratched and so they could listen in their car, or ripped their own CDs into iTunes? Why is it a DVD movie you own is legally different from a CD or LP?

While owning a DVD means I can watch it on TV anyway, the idea of ripping at 720p and having on a hard drive for access from ATV is interesting. That can be done now from the VOBs to H.264 with Fast DVD and MPEG Streamclip - 1.8.

Yes it is illegal but why? If it is for your own use only and you purchased the DVD. I just cannot see the difference between CDs and DVDs legally.

What happened to 'Fair Use'?

 

[tronic72]

Yes your missing somthing BIG TIME!!!

There always seems to be a few people who claim that the Apple TV has absolutely no value. I think the Apple TV is a great device that will offer me quite a bit. Allow me to demonstrate:

Music
- I can eradicate all physical CDs and CD players and instead deal with digital files (all my music is ripped as high bit-rate AAC or Apple Lossless). Loading and unloading a CD is simply barbaric in this day and age and having to plug in your iPod has several shortcomings in terms of storage and interface.
- I have access to *all* my music from my nice home theater set-up via a very simple and clean interface. Pure digital files via pure digital connection (HDMI) = high sound quality.
- All my music is already in iTunes and this works seamlessly with that library.

Video
- I can rip all my DVDs to disc and not have to deal with physical DVDs or DVD players but instead can browse and watch my entire movie collection without having to leave my chair (Thank you, Handbrake).
- Should I be so inclined, I can purchase and view iTunes TV shows and movies form my living room (probably won't do this much, but the ability makes iTunes purchases much more tempting).

vs. "mac mini"
- I don't have to set-up, configure, or maintain a separate, dedicated computer.
- I can keep all my media on my main computer as always (nice and simple). No dealing with synchronizing content, dedicated media networked drives, and other complications.
- Save $300 vs. the Mac Mini alternative (I don't really need a full computer in the living room... the web browsing provided by the Wii/PS3 already fills my limited needs there).

And the hard drive in the Apple TV is a fancy cache useful if you have a slow wireless connection. draft-N and even G should be fine for streaming pretty much all but high bit-rate 720p content without the need for any local (to the Apple TV) storage. The Apple TV essentially has unlimited storage (as it just grabs content from your computer and you can add as much storage as you want there).

My entire CD and DVD collection at my fingertips in my living room via a nice Apple interface? $300 seems like a fair price for that. Is there something I'm missing here?

I've never been a member of this site but apon reading your post I had to join. You are dreaming!

First and foremost the Apple iTune does nothing new.

I've got all my Music on my computer already, why would I want to play it through my TV?????????

In regards to DVDs. I wasn't aware you could rip your movies and use it with iTV but lets assume you are right.

If you rip a single DVD that's anywhere from 4.5 - 9 GIG. (takes approx 30 - 60 mins). Even if you encode it again, it's still going to take up 2-6 Gig. Assuming you don't want to compromise on quality. And remember this device is a HD device so compressing the file at would mean loss of quality which defeats the whole purpose of HD!

But lets assume you are happy to encode at the best quality. Then you've got an average DVD size of around 5 GIG. No, remember you won't be able to rip all your DVDs due to copy contraints. Then there's all the "addtional content" those extra DVDs you wont be able to access.

We'll assume you have a 750 GB HD which is about the biggest on the market. That's 150 DVDs but if you want "the additional content discs then it's half that. If you have any multi layer disks then it's half that again.

That's just under 40 Multi layer DVDs and their extras! Sure you can compress them more but then you may as well watch .AVI files or worse still. .WMV files.

By the way this doesn't allow for your OS, Music, Apps or any other data. Sure you "may" have a Mac Pro with 4 x 750 Drives but I doubt it.

Then there's the time taken to rip all your content. Even if you only want to put those 40 DVDs on your looking at 40 hours of time spent simply ripping the DVDs.

Make no mistake. This product was developed for one simple reason. To encourage people to download movies from the iTunes site.

Mark my words, in it's current state Apple TV will be a massive flop. That said, it may, like the ill-fated original Xbox be saved if hackers take it on board and find ways to squeeze a lot more data and other content such and Games on it.

PS I've typed this is hast, so apologies for Gramma & Spelling mistakes

 

[steve_hill4]

OK I know this is going to start a storm.

In my humble opinion, if you buy a DVD you should have the right to make a copy to watch on your own laptop or whatever. Who never taped an LP (well those around when there were LPs lol) to save it getting scratched and so they could listen in their car, or ripped their own CDs into iTunes? Why is it a DVD movie you own is legally different from a CD or LP?

While owning a DVD means I can watch it on TV anyway, the idea of ripping at 720p and having on a hard drive for access from ATV is interesting. That can be done now from the VOBs to H.264 with Fast DVD and MPEG Streamclip - 1.8.

Yes it is illegal but why? If it is for your own use only and you purchased the DVD. I just cannot see the difference between CDs and DVDs legally.

What happened to 'Fair Use'?

Legally, the difference is that DVDs have copy protection built into them. They actually encrypt the data in order to prevent copying of it. It doesn't work.

I'm completely with you, and so it appears is the UK government who are thinking of changing laws making it legal to make backup copies of CDs and DVDs for personal use onto blank media, computers and other portable devices. It's absurd to expect people to pay for content 3 or 4 times, especially in the case of music where you may have owned the LP, tape, CD, minidisc and now have to pay for the digital file. Even then, on more than 5 machines and you have to have another account for another 5 computers.

That's why Steve Jobs manifesto the other day was brilliant. He was basically advocating non-DRMd music downloads. Extend this to video too and it's really a winner. You'll always have people beating the DRM, cracking the encryption of discs, lending to friends and family, so why punish those who pay for it? Brand your customers as potential criminals wanting to share their purchases with the world and you may turn them into people not wanting to pay in the first place.

 

[Digitalclips]

I've never been a member of this site but apon reading your post I had to join. You are dreaming!

First and foremost the Apple iTune does nothing new.

I've got all my Music on my computer already, why would I want to play it through my TV?????????

In regards to DVDs. I wasn't aware you could rip your movies and use it with iTV but lets assume you are right.

If you rip a single DVD that's anywhere from 4.5 - 9 GIG. (takes approx 30 - 60 mins). Even if you encode it again, it's still going to take up 2-6 Gig. Assuming you don't want to compromise on quality. And remember this device is a HD device so compressing the file at would mean loss of quality which defeats the whole purpose of HD!

But lets assume you are happy to encode at the best quality. Then you've got an average DVD size of around 5 GIG. No, remember you won't be able to rip all your DVDs due to copy contraints. Then there's all the "addtional content" those extra DVDs you wont be able to access.

We'll assume you have a 750 GB HD which is about the biggest on the market. That's 150 DVDs but if you want "the additional content discs then it's half that. If you have any multi layer disks then it's half that again.

That's just under 40 Multi layer DVDs and their extras! Sure you can compress them more but then you may as well watch .AVI files or worse still. .WMV files.

By the way this doesn't allow for your OS, Music, Apps or any other data. Sure you "may" have a Mac Pro with 4 x 750 Drives but I doubt it.

Then there's the time taken to rip all your content. Even if you only want to put those 40 DVDs on your looking at 40 hours of time spent simply ripping the DVDs.

Make no mistake. This product was developed for one simple reason. To encourage people to download movies from the iTunes site.

Mark my words, in it's current state Apple TV will be a massive flop. That said, it may, like the ill-fated original Xbox be saved if hackers take it on board and find ways to squeeze a lot more data and other content such and Games on it.

PS I've typed this is hast, so apologies for Gramma & Spelling mistakes

Not rising to the bait Mr. Troll.

 

[Bonte]

To end it all, its totally legal to rip CD's and DVD's but you may not trade, sell or give away the copy's. In most country's its also perfectly legal to download content as long as you don't upload. Same go's for taping radio and tv broadcastings, this is how it is but 'they' are trying hard to spread fud around.

 

[scu]

I recently received my new airport extreme and after seamlessly setting it up I began to realize the impact that Apple TV will have once it's installed. First of all you can connect up to 3 USB devices to even include a USB hub - imagine the possibilites for storage. Secondly it's fast - as soon as I wake my iMac G5 from sleep the drive is mounted on the desktop. I played a video TS folder from one of my DVD's on the external hard drive and it played smoothly. Now consider using Apple TV from your living room's HDTV using your Apple Remote. The possibilities are limitless - movie storage without DVD's, music, GAMES (from iTunes Store) photo slide shows, whatever.

This is going to be big - now all that needs to be done is to incorporate some sort of TiVO funtionality. Perhaps some solution using an interface such as Elgato TV would work well. Keep in mind that they'll probaly be software upgrades as well as hardware add on's for this device.

This is only the beginning. I believe that Apple TV will be bigger than the iPod but maybe not as big as the iPhone.

I could not agree more. I have over 8000 pictures and 100 Gigs of music. To access it all from my TV would be awesome. Apple TV will have a healthy start but it will pick up serious steam in about 2 years when there are more broadband customers and more videos available to buy via iTunes.

People must keep in mind that the iPod took at least 2 years to really take off.

 

[vkxonline]

Jaywalking is also illegal, and, like these laws forbidding you from doing anything you want with the movie you've paid for, is just as ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned, once I've purchased a DVD, I can rip it to my iTunes library and throw the disc out. I'm not sure I care what the law says. It really strikes me as odd that these people complaining about xvid are also very upset that they COULD copy their dvds to their computer, but that would be illegal!

 

[uNext]

I wish to acquire it but simulteneously i dont?

Its great that it can stream files stored on a computer to your t.v.
Which is a copy of media centers extender capability with the diffrence of
drm protected files on the T.V, and anything with the right codecs on media center. But overall the simple design is calling me plus is apple so
class and elegance comes into the picture.

But i think i will wait to see what hackers do with this baby,
i dont care how good and awesome the itunes store is
I WILL NOT PAY 9.99 FOR LOW QUALITY VIDEO. I rather buy the physical item
and rip it to my computer-but the 40gb built in is a serious limitation which i am sure will somehow be cracked.

I personally feel like this is the first Apple INC floP. Of course some wil lagree some wont but i just cant wait till any file can be streamed
is time consuming to download-encode to ps3 format to play movies
i want something that will just work right after i download it.

 

[tronic72]

OK I know this is going to start a storm.

In my humble opinion, if you buy a DVD you should have the right to make a copy to watch on your own laptop or whatever. Who never taped an LP (well those around when there were LPs lol) to save it getting scratched and so they could listen in their car, or ripped their own CDs into iTunes? Why is it a DVD movie you own is legally different from a CD or LP?

While owning a DVD means I can watch it on TV anyway, the idea of ripping at 720p and having on a hard drive for access from ATV is interesting. That can be done now from the VOBs to H.264 with Fast DVD and MPEG Streamclip - 1.8.

Yes it is illegal but why? If it is for your own use only and you purchased the DVD. I just cannot see the difference between CDs and DVDs legally.

What happened to 'Fair Use'?

I'm sick of this arrgument. IYHO counts for nothing. It's the LAW. Right or wrong. (By the way I agree with you). But why do people continualy this that IMHO counts for anything.

If, IMHO I think it's OK to inject custard into my eye balls then I can do it. But as soon as the Law says I can't. I can't (unless you are happy to break the law).

The interesting thing here is that "The System" that we all love to hate has a way of working things out. People didn't buy many DVDs when they cost $30-$40 AU. But now those same DVDs are appearing for $7 AU and people are buy them 10 fold. The silly, greedy distributors and resellers are finally figuring out that it's better to sell 10 DVDs and make $2 profit per DVD, than it is to sell 1 DVD AND MAKE $10 profit.

The same theory has worked when oil prices went through the roof. When fuel became to pricey, people started selling their SUVs and purchasing Hybrids. As a consiqence we consummed less so the oil companies lowered their prices.

 

[Nukemkb]

heck..I am still surprised the iTv will not accept a DvD...and I gotta walk to the mac mini to load the DVD
I feel "out of touch"

 

[vkxonline]

I think the point we're missing here is that "legal" and "right" aren't always the same thing. A person has to create their own morality. Personally, breaking the law doesn't bother me as long as I'm doing something that falls within my own morality. Buying a DVD and putting it on my iPod doesn't bother me, and its essentially impossible to be legally punished for this. How would that be practical? These laws just haven't caught up with consumers. I'm not going to sit around and wait for the slow wheels of legislation to figure out how technology operates.

Let's be honest here. I think there's very few people in the industry who would sue their consumer for buying content and changing the file format. Even if they would, they'd have to find them first.

 

[Digitalclips]

I think the point we're missing here is that "legal" and "right" aren't always the same thing. A person has to create their own morality. Personally, breaking the law doesn't bother me as long as I'm doing something that falls within my own morality. Buying a DVD and putting it on my iPod doesn't bother me, and its essentially impossible to be legally punished for this. How would that be practical? These laws just haven't caught up with consumers. I'm not going to sit around and wait for the slow wheels of legislation to figure out how technology operates.

Let's be honest here. I think there's very few people in the industry who would sue their consumer for buying content and changing the file format. Even if they would, they'd have to find them first.

I agree 100%

 

[Padriac]

Storage limitations for DVD rips
Ripping a DVD with handbrake to h264 at a bitrate of 1000-1500 looks indistinguishable from the same movie playing through Apple's DVD player. The resulting files average below 2 GB. You can also rip the special features if you desire them, and it doesn't double the amount of space needed as they are often less numerous in length than the feature itself. Even a measly 100 GB of spare space will get you about 40 DVDs with extras. You can also use the Fast DVD -> Mpeg Streamclip method mentioned by Digitalclips, although I'm not familiar with that approach so I don't know what the resulting file sizes are like.

Encoding Time
Yeah, it takes time. But it takes about the same time to set-up and start the rip as it does to set up and start the movie in a physical DVD player. This is no different than the CD equivalent situation: It's a semi-pain to rip all the tracks, but you only have to do it once, ever, and then you have your digital files to do with as you like forever. I can't even imagine what a pain it would be to have to manage my collection of 1000 CDs physically vs. with iTunes.

iTunes isn't doing anything new
Nobody said it did. It's just a nice, elegant package for several features (again, like most things Apple).

You CAN rip DVDs and play them on the Apple TV. This is FACT.
I can currently rip DVDs and play them on my iPod. The Apple TV plays all iPod compatible files. Therefore, I can rip DVDs and play them on the Apple TV. Simple logic. And yes, the Apple TV allows for higher resolution than the iPod (as already stated: up to 720p).

Why would you want to play music through my TV?
You don't, you want to be able to play it through a nice receiver and speaker set.
Even a bottom of the barrel home theater/speaker set-up will sound better than your computer speakers. How do me and my friends cook in the kitchen while listening to a podcast from the living room if my computer is upstairs in my office? How do I play music at a party from my computer (even if its downstairs, it can't crank enough decibels)? etc. etc. etc. Centralized access to all your media is the name of the game. Even if you don't have a nice receiver/speaker set, having the option of playing music from your living room has several advantages "Hey, I got this great new CD. Want to hear it? Great, lets all go upstairs and huddle in my office" vs. just fire it up on your couch.

Legality of DVD ripping
While ripping your purchased DVDs may technically be illegal, this doesn't matter. Since the entire process is done without the use of the internet, how the hell would anybody other than me know that I've done this? It's probably more safe than Tivo-ing a football game and then replaying it when all your buddies come over (also illegal). And, as others have said, it may be illegal but it certainly isn't wrong in an ethical sense.

What is the source of all these Apple TV incompatible files?
What is the most mainstream source of downloadable content that you can find that won't play on the Apple TV without conversion (again, obviously WMV doesn't count since that's Micorsoft's problem)? This is a serious question: I'm trying to gauge if this is just an illegal Xvid/DivX thing or something joe average downloading legal files would also have trouble with.

Finally: The Apple TV has no storage limitations !!!
uNext: the 40GB works like a cache. You are not intended to store all media on the Apple TV. Quite the opposite in fact. Media is stored on your computer (or several different computers or attached hard-drives or whatever) and you use the Apple TV to *stream* those files to your TV. You can set-up the Apple TV to "pre-download" certain files directly the Apple TV hard drive if you desire (useful if you have a slow wireless network or particularly high bitrate movie files that may stutter when streaming).

 

[Digitalclips]

Storage limitations for DVD rips
Ripping a DVD with handbrake to h264 at a bitrate of 1000-1500 looks indistinguishable from the same movie playing through Apple's DVD player. The resulting files average below 2 GB. You can also rip the special features if you desire them, and it doesn't double the amount of space needed as they are often less numerous in length than the feature itself. Even a measly 100 GB of spare space will get you about 40 DVDs with extras. You can also use the Fast DVD -> Mpeg Streamclip method mentioned by Digitalclips, although I'm not familiar with that approach so I don't know what the resulting file sizes are like.

Encoding Time
Yeah, it takes time. But it takes about the same time to set-up and start the rip as it does to set up and start the movie in a physical DVD player. This is no different than the CD equivalent situation: It's a semi-pain to rip all the tracks, but you only have to do it once, ever, and then you have your digital files to do with as you like forever. I can't even imagine what a pain it would be to have to manage my collection of 1000 CDs physically vs. with iTunes.

iTunes isn't doing anything new
Nobody said it did. It's just a nice, elegant package for several features (again, like most things Apple).

You CAN rip DVDs and play them on the Apple TV. This is FACT.
I can currently rip DVDs and play them on my iPod. The Apple TV plays all iPod compatible files. Therefore, I can rip DVDs and play them on the Apple TV. Simple logic. And yes, the Apple TV allows for higher resolution than the iPod (as already stated: up to 720p).

Why would you want to play music through my TV?
You don't, you want to be able to play it through a nice receiver and speaker set.
Even a bottom of the barrel home theater/speaker set-up will sound better than your computer speakers. How do me and my friends cook in the kitchen while listening to a podcast from the living room if my computer is upstairs in my office? How do I play music at a party from my computer (even if its downstairs, it can't crank enough decibels)? etc. etc. etc. Centralized access to all your media is the name of the game. Even if you don't have a nice receiver/speaker set, having the option of playing music from your living room has several advantages "Hey, I got this great new CD. Want to hear it? Great, lets all go upstairs and huddle in my office" vs. just fire it up on your couch.

Legality of DVD ripping
While ripping your purchased DVDs may technically be illegal, this doesn't matter. Since the entire process is done without the use of the internet, how the hell would anybody other than me know that I've done this? It's probably more safe than Tivo-ing a football game and then replaying it when all your buddies come over (also illegal). And, as others have said, it may be illegal but it certainly isn't wrong in an ethical sense.

What is the source of all these Apple TV incompatible files?
What is the most mainstream source of downloadable content that you can find that won't play on the Apple TV without conversion (again, obviously WMV doesn't count since that's Micorsoft's problem)? This is a serious question: I'm trying to gauge if this is just an illegal Xvid/DivX thing or something joe average downloading legal files would also have trouble with.

Finally: The Apple TV has no storage limitations !!!
uNext: the 40GB works like a cache. You are not intended to store all media on the Apple TV. Quite the opposite in fact. Media is stored on your computer (or several different computers or attached hard-drives or whatever) and you use the Apple TV to *stream* those files to your TV. You can set-up the Apple TV to "pre-download" certain files directly the Apple TV hard drive if you desire (useful if you have a slow wireless network or particularly high bitrate movie files that may stutter when streaming).

Again 100% right Some smart people on tonight!

 

[killr_b]

just to clarify: there is not thing such as legitly ripping stuff.... ripping a dvd is illegal, no matter if you own the original copy or not, circumventing the copy protection is illegal all by itself, same thing goes for cds if they are copy protected. *Snip…*

Um, no.
This battle is still being fought in court.
The only copy protections that are currently legal only prevent format shifting. Like Macrovision.
Currently I have the right to make a copy of my DVD's for personal use as long as they stay DVD.
Currently I have the right to make a copy of a CD, and compress it for use in a Computer Music Library.

 

[mlspurr]

AppleTV availability

Did anyone notice that the Think Secert post regarding delayed AppleTV shipments applied to the shipments destine for the RETAIL stores only. Does this mean that those of us that ordered on-line will receive our AppleTV‘s on the rumor date 2/19/07??

 

[Digital Skunk]

Hmmmm

Don't know if anyone said this already...(I am not reading all of those posts ) but the shipping schedule could have been pushed back because of the overwhelming demand for it. I heard that it was selling pretty well when it was first announced.

I don't have much of a TV (or a home of my own for that matter ) so I don't have much of a need or want of an AppleTV. But I will love to have one once I get my own place and set up my 50" (or bigger) Sony Bravia HDTV. It would be nice to stream my iTunes music and TV shows from my Mac to my TV with sweet sound system. I would also be nice to have my photos playing on my screen when friends and family come over for whatever reason.... Okay... let me stop day dreaming and get my credit score ready for my home loan