Apple Unable to Find iPhone Partner in Europe?

[MikeTheC]

They'd better get their head round that idea now or they'll be suffering the same fate as Sony has with the ludicrously expensive PS3 which is languishing on shelves all across Britain (currently £400 without games or extra controller).

Oh, don't even get me started about Sony. The PS/3 has become an enormous millstone for Sony (not that I'm complaining -- I'm actually cheering -- but anyhow...) They dragged their feet, deep-sixed the guy who actually headed up the Playstation group, insisted on putting Blu-Ray on it, refused to settle with the patent-holder of force-feedback technology in controllers (and went to court over it and lost) and then pulled the feature, oh and lastly did you know it takes 30 PS/3 game purchases for Sony to break even on the purchase of one PS/3? Hmm? I'll bet Dr. Chubachi and Sir Howard Stringer must be kicking themselves big time over this. Oh well...

 

[Philsy]

I agree that no-one cares about video calls.

They touted video calls as the killer-app for 3G and miscalculated the market.

What I'm saying is that data/internet is the killer app (and to a lesser extent maybe TV). Once they get with that then things will change for the better.

I also think that it's likely there could be a different data rate for an iPhone.

TV on mobile phones could be big in the UK. Again, the iPhone needs to take this into consideration

 

[Philsy]

Oh man, I haven't heard that in a while. There was someone with a image in his signature over on SciFi.com's message board of a 3D map-like drawing of the U.S. and Canada, and the caption read "We're bigger, and we're on top. If this was prison, you'd be our b***h." (Only, the caption wasn't censored.)

Thanks for the laugh and the memories!

Maybe I've had a sheltered upbringing, but I'm struggling to work out the censored word...

 

[emotion]

TV on mobile phones could be big in the UK. Again, the iPhone needs to take this into consideration

I think that goes against Apples strategy with iTMS downloaded shows.

I think actual streamed TV on phones is a little limited in it's appeal. Nice idea but I don't think people want it in that way. Downloaded iTMS based shows (like the iTMS films) is the way Apple will play this.

 

[surferfromuk]

I'm hoping web by wi-fi will be 90% of the way I use it....the remaining 10% will be 'roaming' internet access and will be strictly email and 'essential web browsing' which should be very little.

True web based youtube 'on the move' could have been a winner but it looks like Apple's buggered that one with no flash support - that one thing could have been 3G's saviour!!

Video calling HA! - even by the year 2500 AD ( or AJ -After Jobs) Video calling will STILL be unviable simply because the call in No longer private unless you start farting about with earphones as well and I don't think 'seeing someone's head bobbing around' on a mobile call is at all important.

I genuinely think 'the couch' is where their (unknown to them I suspect) target market will be mostly using this thing....

 

[Tangenten]

What you have to realise is that Apple needs only _one_ partner, not two. A second partner wouldn't add more than ten percent to the revenue for Apple. On the other hand, having an exclusive like AT&T is very, very valuable for that company, because people will _switch_ from other providers to AT&T.

That means Apple is indeed offering the iPhone to everyone, and it will end up with the single highest bidder. Verizon wasn't the highest bidder. So what do you think will the say? "We wanted the iPhone, but AT&T made a better offer", or "We rejected the iPhone due to Apple's demands"? Of course they are saying that they didn't want the iPhone, because saying otherwise means losing face.

In Europe, exactly the same thing will happen: One company will be selling the iPhone, and all the others will swear that they had no interest whatsoever.

Sorry, nothing personal, but I'm afraid that your attitude combined with a total lack of understanding of how the european market work, is pretty much a spot-on description of where Steve Jobs/Apple are right now.

That is not good. Remember, they are in this to make money, and I can guarantee you with 100 % certainty that, if this report is correct, Apple are not going to make it in neither Europe or Asia/Oceania.

These are advanced developed markets, and truth be told, the iPhone has some major shortcomings as a phone. Add to that a brand new and untested GUI with no legacy. Those hurdles alone are big enough to scare away lots of potential customers. Apple may overcome them with close to perfect execution, but with Steve Jobs/Apple projecting their major-league *******-attitude it's all but certain that the iPhone will be a failure.

 

[Philsy]

I think that goes against Apples strategy with iTMS downloaded shows.

I think actual streamed TV on phones is a little limited in it's appeal. Nice idea but I don't think people want it in that way. Downloaded iTMS based shows (like the iTMS films) is the way Apple will play this.

I'm not so sure. The BBC and other networks having been testing mobile phone TV content. I can't see the appeal myself but plenty of people watch video on small devices such as iPods. Remember that iTMS doesn't offer films outside the US and I think they've missed the boat.

 

[emotion]

I'm hoping web by wi-fi will be 90% of the way I use it....the remaining 10% will be 'roaming' internet access and will be strictly email and 'essential web browsing' which should be very little.

The problem with that for many users is lack of access when moving in a vehicle (commuter train/bus etc etc). HSDPA would be great in those situations. I also believe that 3G coverage, while patchy in some places, is far bigger than wi-fi availability.

True web based youtube 'on the move' could have been a winner but it looks like Apple's buggered that one with no flash support - that one thing could have been 3G's saviour!!

Apple has said they have a way around that....h.264 versions of youtube. Don't forget google and apple are closely related though their directors.

 

[emotion]

I'm not so sure. The BBC and other networks having been testing mobile phone TV content. I can't see the appeal myself but plenty of people watch video on small devices such as iPods. Remember that iTMS doesn't offer films outside the US and I think they've missed the boat.

Do the BBC offer non-microsoft based content in these trials?

I suspect not. There was a consultation document recently that many people responded to, decrying the lack of OSX/linux support. iPhone support is possibly even less likely. Even though the BBC did say it would try and get wider platform support.

As an aside I think the BBC's alliance with MS is not that good a thing for the license payer of this country. Particularly those without MS based machines/devices.

As for TV on ipods. That is exactly what I'm talking about. iTMS is just an example of a content delivery system, there are others. Just like podcasts can come from many places.

 

[martijn.s]

What are you talking about? Locked phones are all over the place here and I've never heard that simlock is illegal anywhere outside the USA.

I live in belgium, locked phones are illegal here, it's even illegal to grant exclusivity for a phone to a carrier, all phones can be bought by anyone.

but we will have to pay a lot more than $499.

about visual voice mail: a script can retrieve the audio, but i doubt a script can also get caller ID and time of call (unless some voice recognition is used)

 

[pietrodiana]

Apple are arrogoant

Apple

 

[Philsy]

Do the BBC offer non-microsoft based content in these trials?

I suspect not. There was a consultation document recently that many people responded to, decrying the lack of OSX/linux support. iPhone support is possibly even less likely. Even though the BBC did say it would try and get wider platform support.

As an aside I think the BBC's alliance with MS is not that good a thing for the license payer of this country. Particularly those without MS based machines/devices.

As for TV on ipods. That is exactly what I'm talking about. iTMS is just an example of a content delivery system, there are others. Just like podcasts can come from many places.

I know very little about the BBC trials, but I thought the reason the BBC used RealPlayer was to ensure cross-platform compatibility.

The problem with TV on an iPod, as I can see it, is that you first have to download shows to your Mac/PC and then to your iPod. Seems a faff to me. But then I personally have no need for TV on the move.

 

[emotion]

I know very little about the BBC trials, but I thought the reason the BBC used RealPlayer was to ensure cross-platform compatibility.

...and that sucks too. The BBC want DRM-enabled delivery so that they can limit the time you keep a show etc. Microsoft OS's seem to be the only platforms that deliver this. Vista is heavily DRM enabled where media is concerned.

The problem with TV on an iPod, as I can see it, is that you first have to download shows to your Mac/PC and then to your iPod. Seems a faff to me. But then I personally have no need for TV on the move.

Me neither. It's not a faff if you sync the iPhone. Do you use podcasts with your iPod? It's all pretty much automatic.

 

[pietrodiana]

Apple are arrogoant

Apple are way too arrogant for their own good and treat markets outside the US like **** anyways. Just look at the content on iTunes in Europe. Pityful. And the Steve jobs reality distortion field doesn't extend across the atlantic. The European networks have very succesful businesses unlike AT&T - who are desperate for an image improvement.

I Love Apple products but Jobs and co. need to stop assuming europe will just go "oooohhhhhh - Apple" and bow down to his ****. C'mon Apple - pull your finger out and give us europeans the same product as the Americans.

Pie

Check this out...
http://ilovemymac.net

 

[emotion]

Apple are way too arrogant for their own good and treat markets outside the US like **** anyways. Just look at the content on iTunes in Europe. Pityful.

What makes you think that Apple are limiting this? It's the movie/music industry that are dragging their feet.

You may consider Apple's stance as arrogance but it's just a hard business position that they hold. In their eyes they hold all the cards. In some respects they do too.

 

[Philsy]

...and that sucks too. The BBC want DRM-enabled delivery so that they can limit the time you keep a show etc. Microsoft OS's seem to be the only platforms that deliver this. Vista is heavily DRM enabled where media is concerned.



Me neither. It's not a faff if you sync the iPhone. Do you use podcasts with your iPod? It's all pretty much automatic.

Umm, that does suck. I think (but I'm not sure) that it's illegal to keep a recording of a TV or radio show for more than a week. So all those old video tapes you have in the attic...

I guess my issue with downloading shows to watch later is that you have to plan ahead. Be nice to be able to pick up your iPhone and watch any show you like on the spur of the moment.

Actually, Apple could make this work by allowing iTMS store content to be bought directly on the iPhone. Another reason for 3G...

 

[thworple]

I'm not so sure. The BBC and other networks having been testing mobile phone TV content. I can't see the appeal myself but plenty of people watch video on small devices such as iPods. Remember that iTMS doesn't offer films outside the US and I think they've missed the boat.

The idea behind streaming TV on your mobile phone is good, but the only situations that I can see people using it would be on a commute to and from work. I myself get the train to London every morning, and it would be great to have that option, but the level of coverage for mobile networks, and Southern Rail's own wi-fi network is still inconsistent all the way along the line. It would be very annoying to connect to a streaming TV channel, only for it to drop out every 3 minutes.

Plus, you have to remember that TV schedules are becoming more and more redundant with things like Tivo and SKY+, and the ability to download recent shows off the Internet direct from BBC, Channel 4 etc. The user is in control of what they watch and where they watch it. Therefore it makes more sense to use the iPhone as a means of playing back video the user puts on themselves, rather than using it for a Mobile TV platform that has yet to be perfected.

 

[emotion]

Umm, that does suck. I think (but I'm not sure) that it's illegal to keep a recording of a TV or radio show for more than a week. So all those old video tapes you have in the attic...

I guess my issue with downloading shows to watch later is that you have to plan ahead. Be nice to be able to pick up your iPhone and watch any show you like on the spur of the moment.

I see what you're saying but you can set iTMS (or other system) to DL all the stuff you might want to watch and have that auto-update when new stuf comes out.

Actually, Apple could make this work by allowing iTMS store content to be bought directly on the iPhone. Another reason for 3G...

Indeed. It kinda does against their model but I could see there being demand for that.

 

[martijn.s]

ill pay $699 for an unlocked iphone any day.

rumors say it will be $999

 

[Philsy]

The idea behind streaming TV on your mobile phone is good, but the only situations that I can see people using it would be on a commute to and from work. I myself get the train to London every morning, and it would be great to have that option, but the level of coverage for mobile networks, and Southern Rail's own wi-fi network is still inconsistent all the way along the line. It would be very annoying to connect to a streaming TV channel, only for it to drop out every 3 minutes.

Plus, you have to remember that TV schedules are becoming more and more redundant with things like Tivo and SKY+, and the ability to download recent shows off the Internet direct from BBC, Channel 4 etc. The user is in control of what they watch and where they watch it. Therefore it makes more sense to use the iPhone as a means of playing back video the user puts on themselves, rather than using it for a Mobile TV platform that has yet to be perfected.

Yes, some good points there. Maybe I've got it wrong, then.

(BTW. Hello from another Sussex person!)

 

[Philsy]

I see what you're saying but you can set iTMS (or other system) to DL all the stuff you might want to watch and have that auto-update when new stuf comes out.



Indeed. It kinda does against their model but I could see there being demand for that.

Buying content direct from a mobile device makes a lot of sense - it opens up another market and the cost of music/TV could be billed to your phone account. It's happening in Sweden - you can buy music via your phone.

 

[Stella]

I know very little about the BBC trials, but I thought the reason the BBC used RealPlayer was to ensure cross-platform compatibility.

Back in the day, I think it was because RealPlayer was (a) cheaper than the alternatives, (b) the best solution. Its not cheap to change to a different streaming platform.

BBC's media player that will be used to play live streaming will be windows only... porting to OSX later.

 

[andiwm2003]

95% of my friends in europe want just a phone. no extra features. the only thing that could convine them to spend extra money for a phone with service would be good internet access.

although the iphone can provide that it's not enough to play hardball with the european providers. there will be enough companies selling phones that are good for internet browsing. not many people would choose a provider because the iphone is available there. hence there is not incentive for providers to give in to apples demands.

on top of that most people i know want to spend less than $20 a month on their phone bill. customers are far more price conscious in europe than in the US.providers know that. and the iphone can only target the high price market because of all the features required. so apple should be careful otherwise their new toy flops.

then at least they can focus again on making computers and software as they should.

 

[ThomasJefferson]

"Unbelievably Arrogant"



I never noticed that before.

 

[Philsy]

95% of my friends in europe want just a phone. no extra features. the only thing that could convine them to spend extra money for a phone with service would be good internet access.

although the iphone can provide that it's not enough to play hardball with the european providers. there will be enough companies selling phones that are good for internet browsing. not many people would choose a provider because the iphone is available there. hence there is not incentive for providers to give in to apples demands.

on top of that most people i know want to spend less than $20 a month on their phone bill. customers are far more price conscious in europe than in the US.providers know that. and the iphone can only target the high price market because of all the features required. so apple should be careful otherwise their new toy flops.

then at least they can focus again on making computers and software as they should.

I'm not sure you're friends are typical of UK consumers.