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I have friends and family in the music/entertainment industry. Some struggled for years and gave up, some are still struggling, some are very successful. I've seen them try everything from self-producing to kick starter/Spotify and even up to signing with major labels. So I sympathize with what you are saying, I really do.

But Spotify, Google, Apple, Atlantic...none of these companies are friends to the little guy. The little guy is never going to make decent money from a huge conglomerate/mega business. It's unfortunate, but true. The best thing the likes of Spotify etc. will do for the little guy is help them be discovered. Back in the day this was really only possible by playing at small venue locations and someone noticing you (or knowing someone in the business). So, yes, these new mediums *do help* but they won't make a small time artist a decent wage...just like playing at a semi-famous dive bar won't pay rent.

I very well may have it all wrong. I admit that. But the people I know that have signed with big record labels were not discovered on Spotify or Youtube. They got paid nearly nothing to play in semi-famous dive bars that have decent exposure. Most gave up, some are still trying, a few were "discovered" and signed.

So what is your alternative? They already killed Grooveshark. Now on to Spotify. Soundcloud is all that's left that's good IMO.
 
I have friends and family in the music/entertainment industry. Some struggled for years and gave up, some are still struggling, some are very successful. I've seen them try everything from self-producing to kick starter/Spotify and even up to signing with major labels. So I sympathize with what you are saying, I really do.

But Spotify, Google, Apple, Atlantic...none of these companies are friends to the little guy. The little guy is never going to make decent money from a huge conglomerate/mega business. It's unfortunate, but true. The best thing the likes of Spotify etc. will do for the little guy is help them be discovered. Back in the day this was really only possible by playing at small venue locations and someone noticing you (or knowing someone in the business). So, yes, these new mediums *do help* but they won't make a small time artist a decent wage...just like playing at a semi-famous dive bar won't pay rent.

I very well may have it all wrong. I admit that. But the people I know that have signed with big record labels were not discovered on Spotify or Youtube. They got paid nearly nothing to play in semi-famous dive bars that have decent exposure. Most gave up, some are still trying, a few were "discovered" and signed.

How does REMOVING those avenues of opportunity help them though? More over, how does it help you? How does it help anyone but Apple? You acknowledge the struggle yet you're backing an idea to make it harder.
 
Apple gets the middle finger from me on this issue. For this, I will support iTunes but never Beats.

And unlikely I will ever again upgrade from my iPhone 6. Will have my Android mostly due to Apple's bullying in the business arena.
 
Call me new fashioned, but I rather listen to unlimited music for half the price of an album with spotlight student pricing per month. $60 a year.


Problem with this is I don't always have a good internet connection or unlimited data on my phone. That being said I know I am in the minority. For now the combo of my iPod Classic 160gb and my iPhone does the job. Plus I like knowing i can pick up my iPod and listen to what I want and not have to listen to a random song based of an artist or genre on a station I made. I guess you can call me old fashion. Or you can blame AT&T for not offering me unlimited data. And don't get me started on the whole but Sprint and T-Mobile off unlimited data argument lol.
 
How does REMOVING those avenues of opportunity help them though? More over, how does it help you? How does it help anyone but Apple? You acknowledge the struggle yet you're backing an idea to make it harder.

Certainly not backing anything, just acknowledging the way things are. I really hope they aren't removed. My post was merely stating that the independent artist has, overwhelmingly, been underpaid in the industry from day 1 - and *any* mega company jumping into the industry won't be focused on helping the independent artist...despite what they might say.

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So what is your alternative? They already killed Grooveshark. Now on to Spotify. Soundcloud is all that's left that's good IMO.

I don't have an alternative. :mad:
 
This works for music genres where touring and selling stuff makes sense... Classical music doesn't tour that much. Jazz doesn't tour much in some countries either. Likewise, people like Philip Glass won't fill stadium if they toured - thankfully he makes money through producing soundtracks for theater or movies, but not all people in his genre can live out of it.

This model certainly works for Pop stars, but not for everyone. Moreover, there is a problem with legacy. Currently, modern music has left a huge legacy thanks to some albums that are really legendary. But if albums become a mere promotional product, what legacy will be left ? Do you produce a White album or a Are you experienced or a 1 when the whole purpose of the album is only to sell tickets ?

Well, The Beatles didn't produce the White Album to make money, that's for sure. In fact, they kinda went out of their way to make it *not* commercial, filling it with a bunch of personal/ego tracks. It's hard to use The Beatles as an example of doing stuff for money, because since they were never following, and always leading, what they were getting into may or may not have been commercial when all was said and done. In the end, it went on to sell about 20 million copies anyway, so yeah, they would have made some money off that:)

So the moral here is, make art first, don't worry about money, and if it's good, people will buy. And the proof is in the pudding. That's an unbelievable double LP. Has almost every genre of music throughout.

Now the days of buying albums are over, so yes, there needs to be another way for artists to make money. But labels will always have the control.There are only a handful of bands, Beatles included, that would actually dictate to the label how they wanted things to go. Few bands/artists ever have that power. So for the 99.9% of everyone else, the label rules the land.

As for classical stuff, those musicians get paid mostly for session work, unless you are a very famous musician, and can take your stuff on the road. So not the same there.

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What if I told you that all companies are only in the business of making money? #. Like, really?

That's exactly what I'm saying. I agree 100% with you!!! Making money is #1 priority. Making products and making people happy are down on the list somewhere else.
 
I liked this one better than Morpheus. Point being, owning your music has nothing to do with this, unless you can explain how having a song on YouTube somehow precludes you from buying it if that's what you'd rather do?

Oh, I was refering to streaming vs actually owning the music.
 
The people who are forced out of the free version won't switch to Apple, they'll just go back to pirating.

This is 100% right. I love my spotify premium, and at $5pm (student) it's beyond worth it IMO. But some people just don't want to pay, but they'll suffer through an ad. That model at least generates some income for artists. Pirating equals nothing.
 
Apple is a company and in the business of making money, not of making nice. This could add a few billion profit so even with a fine of a billion+ that would be good business.
 
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The DoJ will come knocking.

Yeah I think its time for the DOJ to come visit Apple and have a talk. This is the type of problems that start to happen when companies start to get too big. They think they can push people around. Not good consumers .
 
Even if they managed to make this happen, I sure as hell wouldn't use a service made by Apple. Their services are generally awful and also restricted to their own devices. I'll stick with services that work universally.

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Call me old fashioned, but I would rather just own my music.

What a dumb post. You can do both. I own music and I also use Free Spotify to listen to stuff I have no interest in owning.
 
I really did use to like Apple a lot and still own quite a few Apple products, but stuff like this is why I'm slowly moving away from the platform.

Apple made $40 billion in profits last year and is sitting on $200 billion in cash, and they're trying to make listening to music just a little more cumbersome and expensive so they can increase profits by half a percent.
 
oh cuz that worked out so great for Tidal

what makes them think people who listen to it for free will pay for it all of the sudden? these people will just go back to downloading illegally.
 
I really did use to like Apple a lot and still own quite a few Apple products, but stuff like this is why I'm slowly moving away from the platform.

Apple made $40 billion in profits last year and is sitting on $200 billion in cash, and they're trying to make listening to music just a little more cumbersome and expensive so they can increase profits by half a percent.

Unfortunately the customer isn't "always right" anymore...the new theme is, "All hail the shareholder." All shareholders want is profit. :(
 
The problem with all these race to the bottom pricing schemes is that it actually sets a perception in the mind of consumers that there is less value in the product. Young consumers have no idea how much effort and actual money goes into creating content (music, movies, TV, videos and video games) and all they see is that it costs them less than breath mints.

No idea if Apple is doing this or what is really happening in these spaces, but free everything everywhere just hides the costs. Obfuscation causes all sorts of problems and may get immediate returns through growth and sporadic surges of mass response, but in the long term it just makes everything more complicated.

It's a bit like setting your clocks 10 minutes ahead so you aren't late anymore. It works for a day or two, and then you just have one more thing to calculate and figure out every time you look at the clocks.
I disagree completely.

For years, media production companies were able to charge whatever they wanted for music and movies, and then subsequently pay actors $20 million a film and keep a cool $100 million in profits for a movie. Now that piracy is so easy, a lot of these companies are saying to themselves, "Hey, maybe $20 million a film is too high a price to pay an actor or actress. Maybe a hit music star can do just fine making $5 million off a hit album instead of $50 million."

I think the Internet is starting to make adjustments for services that have been priced way too high to begin with. I and a lot of other people don't want to pay $1,300 to put 1,000 songs on an iPod, and a lot people are just going to go right back to piracy if Spotify and similar services are disbanded.
 
why should we have to pay for EVERYTHING in this world just so someone else's pockets can be lined with MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of $$$ you do realize that the rich get richer and way richer and the poor line their pockets. RIGHT ?


I'm getting sick of all these monthly fees. TV used to be 15$ to watch it. now its WAY WAY WAY over priced.. Just wait internet used to be decently priced now that's going up too, soon people are going to ditch that feature too because it's now considered a luxury.

Yes, I do realize that's basic economics. Not everything should have a price in this world, but music definitely should.

Your TV example is also affected by inflation. A payphone call used to cost a dime back in the day. Now it's a lot more.
 
Apple gets the middle finger from me on this issue. For this, I will support iTunes but never Beats.



And unlikely I will ever again upgrade from my iPhone 6. Will have my Android mostly due to Apple's bullying in the business arena.


There's no proof any of this is true. My advice continue enjoying Apple products because they truly are the best. Should real proof come forward that Apple is less pure than we all believe, by all means make a change. But I wouldn't make decisions based on silly gossip blogs that get reported on here. That's cutting off your nose to spite your face.
 
Call me old fashioned, but I would rather just own my music.

You've never really owned your music, just a (revocable) license to listen to a copy. Yes, even that The Mamas and the Papas LP you may have is property of the record company.

But I agree with the spirit of your post. Something in my possession vs. a service.
 
Oh no, forcing people to pay for music again.. How awful of :apple: :rolleyes:
 
Make a free Spotify account, login to Spotify Desktop with no subscription and tell me that is a high quality service...

I'd say it is. Ads aside, which I can be rid of just by paying for a subscription, it's simple to find what I want, has an easy to read, attractive layout, plays my music at decently high quality, and never flakes out on me.

I'd call that a high quality service.
 
What Apple should be doing is giving an equivalent service to Spotify, but also giving people to option of buying 24bit/losslessly compressed versions of the song to keep.

I'm afraid that wouldn't attract _many_ customers.

Actually, I have decent speakers, some very nice headphones, and when I started ripping music years ago I checked all kinds of bitrates and didn't feel a difference between 160 and 192Kbit AAC. (I say "feel" because I couldn't explain _what_ the difference between 128 and 160 was, but something was lost). 256Kbit is far beyond that and AAC encoders have improved since. I don't think the higher bitrate would actually creaete better audio quality unless you have _very_ expensive equipment.
 
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