Apple Vision Pro Could Take Four Generations to Reach 'Ideal Form'

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

There might be no point for you, but there is for the millions of us who buy them. The iPad has the guts of an iPad the fact that it shares its chipset with the Mac is just another factor.

When it has the same chip as my Macbook and costs more than a Macbook, it's gonna get compared to a Macbook.

An iPad does different things compared to a Mac. In my opinion, it’s worse when it comes to heavy workflows (like video editing and similar), but it’s much much better for web browsing, reading, creative work, etc.

Strongly disagree, because with an iPad you're still locked to Safari, while on a Mac you can use any web engine, as well as plugins to make your web browsing a lot better, like being able to install UBlock Origin so you're not bombarded with intrusive ads like you are on iPad.

For me, and many others, the argument “You can buy a MBA for the price of an iPad Pro” works the other way around: no matter how cheap a MBA is, I won’t get it instead of an iPad Pro.

You would rather pay more for the worse experience. Please tell me how that makes sense

And don't come to me like "it's a different form factor" when the iPad has been having an identity crisis trying to be a laptop replacement for years now. Just because it uses a touch screen doesn't instantly make it better when the overall software experience is objectively worse. And it's not just software, but hardware too. iPad hardware has also taken a downward spiral. Battery life has gotten worse even on the iPad Pros compared to the Macbook lineup that has x3 the battery life, the iPad has now had the headphone jack cut while the Mac still has it, hell vanilla iPads have a purposefully gimped USB-C port with slower transfer speeds because Apple.

It is really hard to justify getting anything other than a vanilla iPad anymore with how much worse iPads have become, and if you want proof of this just look at the quarterly financial reports. The Mac is making more revenue than the iPad quarter after quarter and the revenue gap has been growing larger. And once consumer model Apple Vision arrives, it's gonna get even worse for the iPad.

 

[Blackstick]

I'll jump in on the upcoming 2nd gen AVP, in all likelihood.

I loved what I saw at the 30 minute demo, I'd own one right now... but it's very expensive, and I ultimately know it's an iPad 1 type product, complete with that horrible black rubber case and silly portrait keyboard dock.

I'm not concerned about the app story, they will come... but I do think Apple needs to lessen its puritanical grip about pornography and have an option on this device. It's a lot of money and some people are gonna watch digital boobs. Simple as that.

Vision Pro is a new product that is already screaming for its eventual iPad 2/iPhone 4 moment.

I didn't want to be holding a $3500 bag as the resale value of first gen Vision Pros plummet below $1500 once a 2nd gen is announced.

I'll spend it for the 2nd gen, with fair confidence that it's going to rectify a lot of "welllll, we sold a million 1st-gen Vision Pros, and these are the 5 big things we addressed for Gen 2. That should tide me over until the 4th or 5th gen.

 

[LOUFIERRUSH]

Realizing the Apple Vision Pro headset's "ideal form" could take four successive generations of the device, some people in Apple's Vision Products Group believe. That's according to well-connected Bloomberg reporter Mark Gurman.

Writing in his latest Power On newsletter, Gurman says the feeling amongst some of the team working on Apple's headset is that there is much work to do before the device can be considered refined enough for customers to use on a day-to-day basis.

While it's not clear what Apple's development team consider to be the device's "ideal form," it's easy enough to take cues from some early adopters, whose issues with the first-generation device have extended to both the hardware and the software.

Many Vision Pro users feel the headset itself is too heavy and unwieldy for extended use, making generational miniaturization a crucial touchstone for improvement. Other criticisms have included poor battery life, not enough dedicated apps, and a preponderance of bugs in visionOS.

If Apple's team can resolve those issues over four generations – similar to the progression of the iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch – Gurman's take is that the Vision Pro could eventually replace the iPad.

Apple has had "mixed results" in attempting to position the iPad as more of a Mac replacement, Gurman says. Despite Apple's efforts to make it a multitasking device with features like Stage Manager, the iPad has struggled to become a true productivity workhorse like the Mac, and now sits in a limbo amongst Apple's other offerings. "The device lost its original purpose and has become a more confusing piece of Apple's product portfolio," writes Gurman.

As for Vision Pro, which starts at $3,500, "it's going to take some hardware upgrades, a slew of software updates, and far better support from app developers and content makers to actually make the headset the iPad replacement that it's capable of being," adds Gurman. "Until then, the Vision Pro is essentially a prototype — just one where you have to pay Apple for the privilege of testing it out."

Article Link: Apple Vision Pro Could Take Four Generations to Reach 'Ideal Form'

This is relative to whatever tech is available at the time. Let’s say in 5 years Apple releases a battery that last 8 hours for VP. People will still say well why not 12 or 16 hours. And so and so and so on.
Time takes care of everything and Vision Pro will continue advancing in its roadmap to do more and more things just as the iPhone did.

 

[VinRaven]

The iPad could have been a masterpiece if it ran Mac OS. It has 20 versions out there and still it's just a large iPhone. I use mine for flying and that's about it. Also run a pretty big YouTube review channel and not one time, ever, would I have even considered doing real music production or film editing on the iPad over my MacBook Pro. People say "well if you put macOS on iPad it'll run into Mac sales....so WHAT? IT GOES IN THE SAME POCKET, who cares, let it.
The iPad is, has been and always will be held back from any full potential as long as it runs a glorified iPhone OS. I don't even see a difference between just having a iPad Air vs a pro. Ah, yes, the camera ...which is still **** on both...

They’re running afoul of regulators in multiple jurisdictions, so they’re gonna keep a separate iPad OS in order to continue to circumvent anti-monopoly laws.

 

[blackcrayon]

I think with any product, the question is: what can you do with it that you couldn't do otherwise?

With the iPad, the only real answer to that is "use it while standing". So for anyone who has to take notes or reference things while standing, it's perfect. But for everyone else, you're better off using a laptop: better keyboard, better OS, built in stand, etc.

With the Vision Pro I guess it's about the VR experience. You can't have a stereoscopic, immersive experience otherwise. So the next question is why you want a VR experience? I guess gaming is a big one, but gaming is one thing Apple doesn't do for some reason. So maybe watching movies? But that's not the best alone, so again, not quite sure about that one. What's left? Productivity? I guess working in 3D and having some very niche workflows would benefit from it. But that's maybe like 0.01% of people.

It's also not practical. You're not going to take it with you everywhere, and you're not going to use it anywhere. This is mostly a "use it at home only" device. You also can't use it for very long, so it can't replace any other device. You can use a computer for 12 hours, but not this. So whatever amazing immersive workflow you can use the Vision Pro for, you'll have to switch back to using a regular computer pretty soon.

I'd think the only thing you'd only want to do for 2-3 hours a day, at home, alone, is watching movies and playing games. Or just buy an enormous TV for half the price, and you can even share it with other people.

Are you saying this for the current version, or the future one referred to in the article? I don't see why the current version couldn't be used for more than 2-3 hours, but I would definitely expect that to get better (basically it's the passthru quality, and weight as limiting factors).

I guess this will be a lot like the iPad. People suggesting it's not a useful device for most, that most people will not want to use it over any Mac, etc. even as it reaches its 14th year of existence, and sales are only not "incredibly impressive" when compared to Apple's own products. Just like the iPad, people might be interested in what it can do rather than only be interested in things that it can't.

 

[Darren.h]

they should have made the SOC Apple silicon CPU Hot swappable on a daughter card that can easily be upgraded

From an M2 CPU to an M3. which would also give the user the option to go with a larger SSD

This would greatly future proof the Vision Pro.

 

[Piggie]

Honestly I'd expect it to take way way longer than only 4 generations to reach an "Ideal Form"
An "Acceptable Form" yes, sure I could accept that, but given what we all know would be considered "Ideal" I'm thinking we are vastly off such a form factor, to the point where we don't even know yet, even in a lab, how such a device could be constructed.

 

[Realityck]

From Gurmans article

So here’s where the Vision Pro comes in. There’s been a lot of talk that the headset could be the future of the Mac or a replacement for the iPhone. I don’t think either is true. After using the $3,499 device for about a week, I believe the Vision Pro could instead cannibalize the iPad. It has the potential to provide a far better experience for the main jobs that Apple’s tablet was designed to handle. But don’t get me wrong, it’s still very early days.

Is this because iPad sales are down, well blame Apple. Per MacRumors Apple has broken a tradition it maintained for 12 years, releasing no new iPads in 2023, the first time that the company has chosen to not launch a new tablet in an entire calendar year since the introduction of the product line. This should all change once we see product updates with improved OLED displays as then people will want to opt for the new models over what they been using for years. Yes most iPad users don't buy annually so you think that a technology press party would realize rather then write stuff like he does? Oh well consider the source.

 

[citysnaps]

I don't know, everyone keeps saying that once these are lightweight glasses, that will be the ultimate product and it will truly be time to toss our laptops, phones, and tablets in the trash, but I'm just like...will it though?

Everyone? Really? I've yet to read anyone saying that.

I would love to read a small number of the above proclamations.

 

[endemize]

Am i the only 1 that thinks its a really bad idea having led screens that close to your eyes?
I don’t think these products will ever truly go mainstream or be good for long term use

We have had Vr mainstream for 8 years now. Have there been reports of people’s vision going bad from VR? I personally haven’t noticed any degradation and I use VR all the time. I was even in Apple Vision Pro for over 40 hours this last week. No issues what so ever.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I wonder what percentage of people actually would find the idea of wearing a computer over their eyes to be attractive. The visitors to this site do not represent the general public.

I’d be surprised if it was over 5-10%. Because it does not look cool or stylish or attractive at all.

 

[Surf Monkey]

True enough, but you don’t have to wear a Mac on your head in order for it to work. Glasses are out of the question because they cannot provide isolation. So that just leave contact lenses, which people still won’t want to wear, or a brain implant interface of some description. Which is, topically, full-1984.

This kind of thing is closer to four centuries from mass adoption, and that’s if the masses even want it in a world where many are already starting to shun technology. Technology for its own sake does not a good product make 👍

It continues to come down to the form factor. It seems highly unlikely that people generally want to wear a computer on their faces. At the moment there is no compelling reason to do it and a lot of compelling reasons not to.

Many of the use cases Apple has shown are questionable at best. For example, video conferencing with Vision. It seems like a cool idea… for the person wearing the Vision. But for everyone else? Weird “personas,” which get more creepy and problematic the more realistic they look. While Apple has clearly dumped a ton of R&D into trying to overcome this limitation it’s obvious that the problem remains, begging the question: is this a valid use case for the device when you can just use a simple web cam and not wear a face computer while the device creates an on the fly deep fake of your face?

 

[hybrid_x]

Like iphone 4...app store, enough performance, good form and so on..

I'd say iPhone 4 was *almost* there. It was the first iPhone with a Retina display, which was a huge game changer. The antennas were terrible, though. (Remember, "You're holding it wrong"?) The 4S fixed that issue, thankfully.

The ideal form for me was the iPhone 5S. The form factor, size, weight, Touch ID, Lightning connector, and everything on the screen being reachable with the thumb (single-handed operation!) was perfection.

I had an iPhone 5 and then the OG SE for years. My partner still has one, and it puts a big smile on my face every time I hold it. So tiny and perfect. I love my 13 mini, but many times wish it were a little smaller, because I still have to use "Reachability" and back-tap shortcuts when one-handing it.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

If that’s the case, why waste £3.5k each on the first 3 generations? Not that I would, but still.

 

[Yoms]

I highly, highly doubt that macOS will ever see the light of day on iPad. I actually sincerely doubt that 2024 Apple even has the programming chops to successfully implement a touch interface into macOS without breaking it irrecoverably. I suspect the most we can expect from the upcoming iPad Pro is "It's the best disploooy we've ever built into iPad and we think you're gonna love it." Moving forward I think Apple will be locking as much software down as possible, not adding more freedom.

I kinda doubt it too tbh.

But if Apple wanted to make a move in that direction, it would be well suited to do so while refreshing the iPad lineup altogether.

Also, as regards me I would completely be OK with Apple saying "if you want macOS on the iPad, you have to buy a keyboard + mouse/trackpad because we ain't making macOS touch compatible". Again: if...

 

[Mac mini power user]

It's not abnormal for a new Apple product to take some time to find its purpose, and that's actually just fine. The Apple Watch also did not really have a killer app or a clear purpose in general in its first 2014-2015 iteration, when it was very much fashion-oriented. Only with subsequent generations did it become a fitness- and sports-focused companion to the iPhone. I have no doubt that the price will come down, the battery duration will increase, and that the capabilities of visionOS, and Vision Pro apps will increase. Remember, this device is like the original iPhone in 2007: a high-qualityu product with interesting innovations upon existing offers, but comparatively limited in terms of features. It took the iPhone two years to gain cut, copy, and paste support (iPhone OS 3, 2009), three to gain limited multitasking and background processen (iOS 4, 2010), and seven to have proper interaction and sharing between apps (iOS 8, 2014). Give it some time, and this product will find its niche.

 

[deepspacecowboy]

I’d be surprised if it was over 5-10%. Because it does not look cool or stylish or attractive at all.

It's more than that. Humans don't like having their peripheral vision blocked. That goes all the way back to our caveman days when life was pretty much fight or flight and you never knew what you might catch lurking in the corner of your eye. I haven't used Vision Pro, so I can't personally comment on how much it blocks peripheral vision, but the FOV comments I've read suggest that it's rather poor.

"Cool" and "stylish" are cultural. While I agree that most people today probably view headsets as uncool and far from stylish, those perceptions can shift pretty easily. When I was a kid in the 80s, tech was decidedly uncool. You were a "nerd" if you were into computers. The jocks picked on you. Flash forward twenty years...and it's the age of the jock brogrammer. Tech is cool (and has remained cool for basically two decades now).

If a single "must have" use case emerges for Vision Pro (and headsets in general), they'll suddenly be cool. I think anything that restricts FOV is probably a bigger obstacle to widespread acceptance. We just innately resist having our peripheral vision blocked.

 

[endemize]

Yep, the problem is that we don't know. There are articles about LEDs being hard on the eyes, but there is really no trustworthy independent source that confirms or denies that.

We do know that 100s of scientific studies are retracted monthly. Many from big name institutions. Unfortunately, today no one should be trusting any scientific studies unless they publicly publish all data used in the study and have independent 3rd parties replicate the studies findings.

How about me from personal experience? Been using VR heavily for 8 years and my vision is still 20/20.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I kinda doubt it too tbh.

But if Apple wanted to make a move in that direction, it would be well suited to do so while refreshing the iPad lineup altogether.

Also, as regards me I would completely be OK with Apple saying "if you want macOS on the iPad, you have to buy a keyboard + mouse/trackpad because we ain't making macOS touch compatible". Again: if...

Right. “Runs MacOS when connected to the new Magic Keyboard with built in Magic Trackpad. Runs iPadOS on the go! We think you’re going to love it!”

 

[endemize]

Here’s a summary of his “in-depth evaluation”:

• Apple should drop the Solo Knit Band.
• The pass-through cameras aren’t up to snuff.
• The displays sometimes produce blurriness or glare, and the FOV feels like binoculars.
• Eye/hand tracking doesn’t always work, especially in low light or reclined position.
• Battery life is too short, as is the battery cable.
• Even the native apps aren’t alway easy to use with eye-tracking (targets too small).
• General bugginess.
• Mac accessories aren’t visible when working in an Environment (unlike one’s hands).
• Personas are phenomenal and groundbreaking.
• Usability of app launcher and window management isn’t great.
• Surprising lack of native/immersive apps and immersive contents.
• Essentially a prototype at this stage.

The solo knit band will be great once the headset is lighter. The dual loop is better for now, but I see the solo knit as the future of the bands.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

One subjective opinion from an incompetent reporter is meaningless. He clearly can’t see the forest from the trees.

 

[Surf Monkey]

It's more than that. Humans don't like having their peripheral vision blocked. That goes all the way back to our caveman days when life was pretty much fight or flight and you never knew what you might catch lurking in the corner of your eye. I haven't used Vision Pro, so I can't personally comment on how much it blocks peripheral vision, but the FOV comments I've read suggest that it's rather poor.

"Cool" and "stylish" are cultural. While I agree that most people today probably view headsets as uncool and far from stylish, those perceptions can shift pretty easily. When I was a kid in the 80s, tech was decidedly uncool. You were a "nerd" if you were into computers. The jocks picked on you. Flash forward twenty years...and it's the age of the jock brogrammer. Tech is cool (and has remained cool for basically two decades now).

If a single "must have" use case emerges for Vision Pro (and headsets in general), they'll suddenly be cool. I think anything that restricts FOV is probably a bigger obstacle to widespread acceptance. We just innately resist having our peripheral vision blocked.

It goes over your face. It isn’t going to suddenly become cool and stylish. That kind of cultural shift would require a lot more motivation than some Vision application.

 

[Mac mini power user]

Regarding the iPad running macOS: I don't feel as though we need a tablet running a desktop OS. It would require significant adapatations to macOS, which may in turn be detrimental to the Mac experience (see Windows 8 on non-touch devices). Apple needs to address the iPad's identity crisis through a better touch-based and more capable iPadOS, and have a renewed focus on pro apps for it. Making an iPad run macOS is not the solution to its lack of purpose.

 

[Surf Monkey]

How about me from personal experience? Been using VR heavily for 8 years and my vision is still 20/20.

Anecdote doesn’t prove much. There would need to be controlled studies to find out for sure.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Regarding the iPad running macOS: I don't feel as though we need a tablet running a desktop OS. It would require significant adapatations to macOS, which may in turn be detrimental to the Mac experience (see Windows 8 on non-touch devices). Apple needs to address the iPad's identity crisis through a better touch-based and more capable iPadOS, and have a renewed focus on pro apps for it. Making an iPad run macOS is not the solution to its lack of purpose.

But we do need a laptop running a desktop OS?

Where’s the line? Seems to me that it’s totally arbitrary and based more on sales and marketing than on anything else.