Apple Vision Pro Could Take Four Generations to Reach 'Ideal Form'

[cableguy84]

How is placing apps all over the place any quicker than wipping your phone out and looking up the same info in 2 seconds?

O wow i can walk to the fridge and look at a shopping list. How about just open the notes app on your phone?

 

[G5isAlive]

One of the few times I agree with Mark Gurman

In the past three years the iPad has become totally decentivized. Unless you're a professional artist there's no point in buying one anymore. Guts of a Mac, but does a lot less than a Mac, and is more expensive than a Mac. So instead of spending $800+ on an iPad Pro, just buy a Macbook instead for the same price. It'll be able to do a lot more, and has vastly longer battery life than even the highest end iPad.

The fact iPadOS updates every year have just been leftovers from the previous year's iOS updates certainly doesn't help. And now with the news that iOS will get sideloading to comply with the EU's Digital Markets Act, but not iPadOS, the iPad just got even more redundant. Once consumer model Apple Vision arrives and it's at $1500 or lower, it's only gonna get worse for the iPad.

Never understood why people seem to think buying an iPad is a binary decision over buying a laptop. I bought both. As much as you say the laptop does more, and i agree, the iPad is FAR superior for casual content consumption. So I own both categories. And to that I add, my iPhone for making calls and texts, and now my AVP for multiple windows while sitting anywhere.

 

[k1121j]

Worth remembering that 3DTV failed in part because people didn't want to wear a pair of featherweight glasses. Expecting this diving bell cyborg helmet to succeed on a large commercial scale is like expecting 3DTV to succeed when you need to wear the TV on your face.

Glasses aren’t a problem, it’s content for me.

 

[Macalicious2011]

The iPad could have been a masterpiece if it ran Mac OS. It has 20 versions out there and still it's just a large iPhone. I use mine for flying and that's about it. Also run a pretty big YouTube review channel and not one time, ever, would I have even considered doing real music production or film editing on the iPad over my MacBook Pro. People say "well if you put macOS on iPad it'll run into Mac sales....so WHAT? IT GOES IN THE SAME POCKET, who cares, let it.
The iPad is, has been and always will be held back from any full potential as long as it runs a glorified iPhone OS. I don't even see a difference between just having a iPad Air vs a pro. Ah, yes, the camera ...which is still **** on both...

The iPad lost its polish when Apple launched Plus/Max phones. It enabled you to have your cake and eat it too. phone and large media consumption device in your pocket.

In Europe the iPad became less attractive because it didn't have WhatsApp. As a result you had to always grab your phone to read or reply to messages.

 

[Jim Lahey]

This is regulated by the FCC and similar organizations in other countries. RF radiation is like light, just with longer wavelength, and thus lower energy (as opposed to, say, UV or X-ray radiation, which are higher-energy and indeed dangerous). There are considered-safe limits on the energy absorbed per kg of body mass, usually in the low single-digit Watt per kg. Wifi is generally well below 1 Watt, and Bluetooth much lower (below 0.01 Watt I believe). Just based on those low amounts of energy, it seems quite unlikely that there should be any detrimental effect. And there was never any “common knowledge” to the contrary.

And how do the regulators know what’s safe? Link to the 10 year clinical trial where the control group lived in a faraday cage while the test group wore a Vision Pro for four hours a day?

The truth is no one really knows. You’re free to take your chances but I’ll pass 👍

 

[G5isAlive]

People like to say things like that but that doesn’t them factual. The first Mac was well received and created a cultlike following.

Nope. The vast majority of the people said, ‘never get fired ordering blue (PC)’. The vast majority talked about how much cheaper PC‘s were, how much easier to use a text line interface, etc. The ’cult’ which btw, is rarely the majority, did like it. I was one of them. But dont ever mistake the few faithful with being well received. There was a reason Apple nearly died several times. Saying thats not so doesnt make it factual either

 

[cableguy84]

thinking this thing is going to be a pair of glasses one day is beyond wishful thinking. we’re not in the late 00’s to early 10’s anymore, this thing isn’t going to get half as small and twice as fast year over year. the physical limitations are different now. this thing is always going to be a bulky, expensive pair of goggles until they figure out a different implementation that makes more sense than this mess.

Brain/computer interface is the only way forward. That way info between brain and device is direct and wont require this kind of bulky device as a “go between “

 

[G5isAlive]

I think with any product, the question is: what can you do with it that you couldn't do otherwise?

With the iPad, the only real answer to that is "use it while standing". So for anyone who has to take notes or reference things while standing, it's perfect. But for everyone else, you're better off using a laptop: better keyboard, better OS, built in stand, etc.

With the Vision Pro I guess it's about the VR experience. You can't have a stereoscopic, immersive experience otherwise. So the next question is why you want a VR experience? I guess gaming is a big one, but gaming is one thing Apple doesn't do for some reason. So maybe watching movies? But that's not the best alone, so again, not quite sure about that one. What's left? Productivity? I guess working in 3D and having some very niche workflows would benefit from it. But that's maybe like 0.01% of people.

It's also not practical. You're not going to take it with you everywhere, and you're not going to use it anywhere. This is mostly a "use it at home only" device. You also can't use it for very long, so it can't replace any other device. You can use a computer for 12 hours, but not this. So whatever amazing immersive workflow you can use the Vision Pro for, you'll have to switch back to using a regular computer pretty soon.

I'd think the only thing you'd only want to do for 2-3 hours a day, at home, alone, is watching movies and playing games. Or just buy an enormous TV for half the price, and you can even share it with other people.

what? Who says the iPad is only better while using it standing? lol. I NEVER use mine standing. Mostly sitting back on the couch, or reclining in bed. Sorry, its just easy to content consume in very casual settings.

And why use an APV ? Because unlike my laptop, i can sit here on the couch with multiple windows open. My mail floating over on the left, my laptop screen floating over on the right, safari dead center as i reply to this. Don’t let your use cases limit your evaluation for the rest of us.

as for use it only at home. Wrong again. This is a great device for those of us who travel. And there are a lot of us. Not arguing Gen 1 is for everyone, but eh, think you are missing the mark.

 

[G5isAlive]

And how do the regulators know what’s safe? Link to the 10 year clinical trial where the control group lived in a faraday cage while the test group wore a Vision Pro for four hours a day?

The truth is no one really knows. You’re free to take your chances but I’ll pass 👍

Same could be said about phones you hold to your head. No 10 year clinical trials. Yet, you take your chances dont you? The trials that have been done are pretty limited and not conclusive.

 

[klasma]

And how do the regulators know what’s safe? Link to the 10 year clinical trial where the control group lived in a faraday cage while the test group wore a Vision Pro for four hours a day?

The truth is no one really knows. You’re free to take your chances but I’ll pass 👍

People have been wearing wireless headsets and in-ears for quite a number of years now, including the whole workday in some professions. And it’s unclear by what physical mechanism harm could be caused at those low energies. I mean, feel free to be afraid of unknown unknowns, but the likelihood of an unkown effect here that for some reason hasn’t been exposed yet seems exceedingly low.

 

[windowsblowsass]

How is placing apps all over the place any quicker than wipping your phone out and looking up the same info in 2 seconds?

O wow i can walk to the fridge and look at a shopping list. How about just open the notes app on your phone?

This is where as this gets adopted we are going to figure out the use cases people actually want to use it for and the ones that become gimmicks and fade away. Think about using the Apple Watch as a viewfinder for your iPhone or the beer app being the most popular iPhone app early on. Those faded away as people found the most useful and practical uses for the technology

 

[120FPS]

Do people believe that jumps in technology that we make these days are so massive that we can get it done in such a short period?

 

[Jim Lahey]

Same could be said about phones you hold to your head. No 10 year clinical trials. Yet, you take your chances dont you? The trials that have been done are pretty limited and not conclusive.

Actually no. I only ever use speaker phone and avoid Wi-Fi and Bluetooth as much as possible. My home is all ethernet. But in any case, none of the normal everyday exposures are really comparable to having it all bolted to your noggin for several hours at a time. Just my opinion 👍

 

[aidler]

Don't want to contradict Mark Gurman, but unlike the Vision Pro, I know for what reason I bought my iPad, and considering an iPad costs 1/3 or less of the Vision Pro, the question of purpose becomes less relevant.

 

[CrysisDeu]

Getting to that size is pretty easy, if you do like Bigscreen Beyond and build absolutely no processing or tracking into the headset!

You would imagine with Apple’s talent, they can build something similar but a lot better.. use iPhone for computation, ecosystem integration, ai integration.
But nope

 

[Nekronos]

I think macOS on the iPad wouldn’t ruin Mac sales, it would ruin iPad sales. There is a tech bubble (including Gurman) that believes macOS on the iPad would be a good idea, but the iPad concept has defeated every tablet PC competitor in the market, and generates the same revenue as the Mac even if no models were launched this year. The iPad is not as huge as the iPhone, sure, but it’s an enormous success.

iPad has not defeated every tablet PC competitor and what Gurman and others are really getting at is iPad cannot compete with 2in1 devices.

A lot of people have an interest in being able to use an iPad in the same way as PC 2in1 offerings but can't due to ipadOS limitations. Apple is trying to market it towards that crowd by pairing with Magic Keyboard without success with exception to loyalists.

iPad doesn't need macOS, what it needs is something more than iOS fitted to a tablet screen, something between iOS and macOS that functions in the way that 2in1s do in the PC market.

 

[Jim Lahey]

People have been wearing wireless headsets and in-ears for quite a number of years now, including the whole workday in some professions. And it’s unclear by what physical mechanism harm could be caused at those low energies. I mean, feel free to be afraid of unknown unknowns, but the likelihood of an unkown effect here that for some reason hasn’t been exposed yet seems exceedingly low.

Yeah like I said, you’re free to take your chances.

 

[baryon]

I don't know, everyone keeps saying that once these are lightweight glasses, that will be the ultimate product and it will truly be time to toss our laptops, phones, and tablets in the trash, but I'm just like...will it though? There's this pervasive telic narrative in tech right now that it's all heading toward glasses, and the only problem with the Vision Pro is that it's too bulky and expensive. I'm just not sure that is the superior form of interaction with tech. I guess we have to wait several generations to find out...

I highly doubt the "lightweight glasses" version could ever even exist. It's an optical/physics problem that I don't think can be solved. Your eyes need to focus on infinity in order to feel comfortable, and this means the screen has to have optics in front of it to "push" the image further out. But then how would the light from the actual world reach your yes, if there are optics in front of your eyes? We can't have both transparency and the ability to focus on the screen. So this will forever remain a camera-passthrough with bulky optics.

 

[windowsblowsass]

I highly doubt the "lightweight glasses" version could ever even exist. It's an optical/physics problem that I don't think can be solved. Your eyes need to focus on infinity in order to feel comfortable, and this means the screen has to have optics in front of it to "push" the image further out. But then how would the light from the actual world reach your yes, if there are optics in front of your eyes? We can't have both transparency and the ability to focus on the screen. So this will forever remain a camera-passthrough with bulky optics.

At least not without a major breakthrough in technology

 

[gleepskip]

And how do the regulators know what’s safe? Link to the 10 year clinical trial where the control group lived in a faraday cage while the test group wore a Vision Pro for four hours a day?

The truth is no one really knows. You’re free to take your chances but I’ll pass 👍

This applies to most everything that is new, whether usable, consumable, or environmental. Everyone chooses their own risk aversion. One person's risk tolerance would probably make no sense to another and vice versa.

 

[windowsblowsass]

iPad has not defeated every tablet PC competitor and what Gurman and others are really getting at is iPad cannot compete with 2in1 devices.

A lot of people have an interest in being able to use an iPad in the same way as PC 2in1 offerings but can't due to ipadOS limitations. Apple is trying to market it towards that crowd by pairing with Magic Keyboard without success with exception to loyalists.

iPad doesn't need macOS, what it needs is something more than iOS fitted to a tablet screen, something between iOS and macOS that functions in the way that 2in1s do in the PC market.

How do you define defeated because it massively out sells and out profits them.

 

[Jim Lahey]

This applies to most everything that is new, whether usable, consumable, or environmental. Everyone chooses their own risk aversion. One person's risk tolerance would probably make no sense to another and vice versa.

Yes that’s why I only speak for myself 👍

 

[G5isAlive]

Actually no. I only ever use speaker phone and avoid Wi-Fi and Bluetooth as much as possible. My home is all ethernet. But in any case, none of the normal everyday exposures are really comparable to having it all bolted to your noggin for several hours at a time. Just my opinion 👍

Well what about microwaves, radio waves, and all the electromagnetic radiation you get just by leaving your home?

My AVP is not bolted to my head. It’s held on by a strap. And compared to the power put out by tv’s, its pretty mild. But then, you probably dont watch TV either.

We should be concerned about these things, but i tend to reserve an opinion for when i actually have some information. Rarely have an opinion on lack of information. Just the way I critically think.

 

[windowsblowsass]

You would imagine with Apple’s talent, they can build something similar but a lot better.. use iPhone for computation, ecosystem integration, ai integration.
But nope

Ok so let’s be practical. It has an M2 and an additional processor in it, how are you going to offload that to an iPhone? Even if you put a TB port in the iPhone it’s not nearly fast enough. Even if it was fast enough,now you are going to require the latest fastest iPhone to make it work? It just doesn’t track at the end of the day

 

[cheesygrin]

I'm thinking longer than four generations. Apple will naturally feel obliged to release new generations fairly rapidly to spur upgrades, but it feels like this tech has a long way to go before it can be considered comfortable and useful for the masses. In its current form, it simply doesn't interest me.