Apple Vision Pro Speeds Up Surgery by Almost 20%

[subjonas]

True, but how much of that is due to the tech not being good enough at the time, but being good enough now (less cumbersome, lighter, better/more detailed image, etc.) due to the usual march of advances in tech? No doubt the AVP hardware is great but in the grand scheme of all things tech, it doesn't add up to much more than a spec bump. I fully expect the "spec bumps" to continue, whether driven by Apple or someone else.

Some of that is of course natural progression of specs. But a product isn't just specs, it's design. Until the VP, I don't think headset hardware and software ever came together in a package even close to the VP. Apple tends to put together a UX that sets the (high) bar for any given product category, granted the headset category is niche. There are some similar looking products now, but I still don't know how well they match especially in terms of software and ultimately the whole UX.

 

[turbineseaplane]

surgeons wore Vision Pro headsets that streamed the endoscopic video feed directly into their field of view instead of looking at a monitor across the room, letting them keep a natural forward-facing posture throughout.

the Vision Pro was cheaper and far smaller than the monitor setup it replaced, though they caution the study is small and preliminary, and call for larger trials to confirm the results.

It's been a fun thread, but more seriously speaking here...

This is just a PR article based upon a small study, nothing more.

The headset solved a posture situation, which is almost certainly more likely to get remedied by cost reduced monitor setups, not all the added complexity and new issues of a VR headset in an OR environment.

 

[robertmorris2]

Naturally this will reduce costs for the patient, right?

It won't just add to the margins for the care provider and/or the insurance company, right?

Right?

😳 😬

I doubt that it will. Technology in the medical field has never, as far as I know, reduced any costs. Unfortunately.

 

[tedthemed]

Hopefully the rural hospital situation is better outside the USA.
Here, the Medicaid slashing is pushing rural hospitals to the absolute brink.

They will not be procuring any VR headsets for surgeries, that much is sure.

If surgeons are allowed to network devices not owned by the hospital to the hospital network, then surgeons who find the AVP sufficiently helpful could bring their own AVP to the rural hospital.

 

[webkit]

Personally, I don’t care too much about the speed, I only care about doing it correctly.

Doing it correctly is obviously most important but perhaps you should also care more about speed as faster surgeries can potentially mean less time under anesthesia/sedation, lower infection risks, reduced blood loss, faster recovery, lower overall costs, etc.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If surgeons are allowed to network devices not owned by the hospital to the hospital network

Good luck on that one. 🤔

 

[Amazing Iceman]

It’s funny how people cry about the cost of the AVP.
A white 32” HD monitor rated for Medical applications goes for thousands, almost as much as the entry point AVP.

 

[Mitochris]

The cost is lower because equipment sellers milk the industry with insanely-high prices. And they are much higher-quality products than that sold en masse to consumers. Such medical imaging monitors have both a very high pixel density and precision colour calibration, meaning they are top of the line. Then there are cameras and computers to go along with it. Add all that together and, yes, it would be way more expensive than an all-in-one headset computer.

I'm curious how the camera images are fed into the Vision Pro headset?

not sure whether anyone has answered this already but here from the study:

The HDMI output of the endoscopy tower was converted to Network Device Interface (NDI) format and streamed over a secured, closed 5 GHz Wi‑Fi 6 network... The stream was delivered in real time to each headset...”

Later in the Results section, they reiterate that:

“The high-resolution endoscopic feed was wirelessly streamed into each headset in real time using a single NDI broadcast stream.”

What they dont say is:

• Which HDMI-to-NDI hardware encoder was used.
• Which app/software on the Vision Pro received the NDI stream.
• The video resolution, frame rate, bitrate, or measured latency.

 

[klasma]

Does having electronically augmented eyes mean these doctors are cyborgs?

Only if wearing AirPods means you’re a cyborg as well.

 

[hagar]

That’s great but it’s worrying that these kinds of stories are so rare. Interest must still be very low, even in niche markets. Maybe Apple should push and support more of these use cases and trials.

 

[Mr_Ed]

Some of that is of course natural progression of specs. But a product isn't just specs, it's design. Until the VP, I don't think headset hardware and software ever came together in a package even close to the VP. Apple tends to put together a UX that sets the (high) bar for any given product category, granted the headset category is niche. There are some similar looking products now, but I still don't know how well they match especially in terms of software and ultimately the whole UX.

I really don't think UI was a factor in this study. I could not find any reference to what software was used to display the NDI feed in the AVP (although as I understand it, such apps exist), or any indication of how the endoscopy feed was turned into an NDI stream in the first place (it's possible I just missed it). It looks like they used it quite literally as a "floating monitor" in the surgeon/assistant fields of view. Not exactly something exclusive to AVP.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

It’s funny how people cry about the cost of the AVP.
A white 32” HD monitor rated for Medical applications goes for thousands, almost as much as the entry point AVP.

It's funny how people cherry-pick one scenario that works for their narrative.
If you're shopping medical equipment (99% of AVP owners are not) then it makes financial sense. If you're looking for something to watch movies and play games, it's expensive and not in the budget of most consumers.

 

[lusty]

It’s funny, Microsoft found the same with theirs and made industrial specific versions. Weird that Apple didn’t also copy those aspects while the photocopiers were running.

 

[goobot]

Not gana lie if I saw my surgeon walk in looking like that I would be a little nervous

 

[CarAnalogy]

"Your insurance only covers normal surgery, not Surgery Pro or Surgery Pro Max and definitely not Surgery Ultra -- Sorry!"

Cash only? Here's a bottle of whiskey and a bitin' stick.

To keep the post on topic, I do wonder who exactly was performing these surgeries and where they got the Vision Pro.

I don't have anything against the device except the way they took a big swing and a miss at marketing it as a mass consumer device. And then in classic Apple style, tried to say it has always been a developer device.

 

[RoadWarrior56]

It appears that narrow professional nitches such as surgery and other applications will end up being the "Killer Applications" for the VisionPro and keep it on the market. The high price plus limited 3rd party support may keep it from becoming popular in the mass market, at least for now, but surgical uses and other professional applications may keep it viable, until the price of the technology comes down. Besides, the high purchase price may be a relative bargain for a medical device.

 

[OS X Dude]

Wow, Daft Punk have changed.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It appears that narrow professional nitches such as surgery and other applications will end up being the "Killer Applications" for the VisionPro and keep it on the market. The high price plus limited 3rd party support may keep it from becoming popular in the mass market, at least for now, but surgical uses and other professional applications may keep it viable, until the price of the technology comes down. Besides, the high purchase price may be a relative bargain for a medical device.

Is anybody reading the article?

They solved an ergonomic issue in a tiny study.

Almost nothing about what was solved here involves key strengths of the AVP itself beyond it being a head mounted display.

 

[d-klumpp]

As a retired orthopod who did arthroscopy for 40 years, this would have been a godsend for my neck. Constantly switching from the downward view of the surgical site, and looking up to the monitor, (typically mounted above the equipment cabinet, as seen in OP pic) definitely contributes to neck pain and neck arthritis.

And you can imagine that in other specialties or more extensive procedures, there could be proportional reductions that would benefit patients (e.g., time under anesthesia, blood loss, etc).

 

[turbineseaplane]

And you can imagine that in other specialties or more extensive procedures, there could be proportional reductions that would benefit patients (e.g., time under anesthesia, blood loss, etc).

All they did was put an HMD on them.

The Vision Pro and it's special benefits have done nothing here.

It was a simple ergonomic fix.

 

[brewcitywi]

I think it's very cool. Maybe it will justify keeping the development going for future, lighter ones.

 

[Core.2]

Waiting for the Daft Punk full helmet version myself.

 

[zarmanto]

... Almost nothing about what was solved here involves key strengths of the AVP itself beyond it being a head mounted display.

Without even looking at the study, I would imagine that the unusually high resolution of Apple's screen may have played a role. After all, if just any ol' head mounted display would accomplish the task, they could have saved themselves a small fortune by just buying a Quest instead.

That said... with looking at the linked study, I see this particular quote:

The AVP combines an ultra-high-resolution display, control through the eyes, hands, and voice, and an open software development environment, making it well suited for integration into clinical workflows.

 

[JM]

There we go: sell boatloads to the medical field to subsidize all the other apple products so no price increases.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Without even looking at the study, I would imagine that the unusually high resolution of Apple's screen may have played a role. After all, if just any ol' head mounted display would accomplish the task, they could have saved themselves a small fortune by just buying a Quest instead.

That said... with looking at the linked study, I see this particular quote:

To me it is still unclear how much of it was beyond just a monitor you didn't have to look elsewhere/down at in less than ergonomic positions:

In the present study, we evaluated endoscopic DCR performed with the AVP as a wearable, high-resolution display and compared it with traditional monitor-based endoscopy, assessing surgical outcomes, surgeon workload, and economic feasibility. To our knowledge, this is among the first prospective evaluations of the Apple Vision Pro used as the primary intraoperative display for endoscopic lacrimal surgery.


I'm certainly very open to reading more detail on it if anyone knows of any!

My broader point is that they aren't doing "surgery in VisionOS" or really using any of the specific AVP interaction methods Apple came up with, etc.

It's a really nice high resolution HMD with pass through.
It seems like many potential existing or new products could solve for this.