Apple vs. Mac OS X Hackers

[barstard]

Not here it doesn't

Such wording in license agreements is of dubious validity. Once a consumer has legally purchased a copyrighted work, they have all the fair-use rights.

True, but fair-use doesn't apply here in Australia. It's even illegal to copy your music from CD to your iPod! Technically, the only music you can put on your pod is something bought with a license to do so, ie iTunes. Although I don't think anyone has been prosecuted for this sort of activity, and hopefully never will be, otherwise I am in trouble!

The difference between CD's and Apple Software is that that Apple takes a direct monetary loss when someone doesn't buy their hardware, whereas most music companies (except Sony) don't sell hardware. Therefore they won't gain any money by restricting what you can play it on, in fact they lose money as seen recently wiht the TERRIBLE copy-protection that killed computers if you tried to play it on there!

barstard.

 

[Maxx Power]

Exactly! Everything should be free! That way nobody can make any money. There will be no greed and no power. We will all love each other. The complete reason for human misery is those stinky people that want money and control over their innovations.

See 'ya

They are the cause of SOME human misery, while your laziness and the fallable trial & error method of human learning creates the rest.

What's your point? It clearly shows how much you know in business.

Try to remember business is a construct that doesn't encompass morals, therefore, what he said still holds true whether or not it is business you are talking about. Just because someone understands that in business everything is licit as in war, doesn't mean that makes it morally okay to abuse power and become greedy.

 

[Tupring]

Tell you what, you go and buy a copy of OS X Tiger for Intel and we'll talk about stealing.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

This whole "I'd pay for it if I could, so I'll just steal it now" argument is BS. The vast majority of people installing OS X on their PCs right now have illegally downloaded it, not bought it.

Andrew Beard

Does Apple even offer it to buy?

 

[nataku]

Exactly! Everything should be free! That way nobody can make any money. There will be no greed and no power. We will all love each other. The complete reason for human misery is those stinky people that want money and control over their innovations.

See 'ya

It is easy to say but literally impossible to do. sorry man. that world does not exist.

Try to remember business is a construct that doesn't encompass morals, therefore, what he said still holds true whether or not it is business you are talking about. Just because someone understands that in business everything is licit as in war, doesn't mean that makes it morally okay to abuse power and become greedy.

Hmmm... I don't think Apple is abusing anything. Like I said... if you buy something, you get everything that comes with it.

 

[generik]

I wouldn't say Apple is greedy... but they sure have a different approach to sucker in users as compared to Microsoft

For Microsoft, you get suckered in together with everyone else, visualise a meat grinder with a heap of people dropped into the hopper.. that's Microsoft.

For Apple when you get suckered you are pulled in heart and soul, making heaps of fanbois who walk around like borned again christians

 

[ezekielrage_99]

Apple is INDESTRUCTABLE.

I learn from the master.
I challange the master.
I become the master.


Is Apple putting the challange out to all those wannabe and hardcore hackers'n'crackers out there to have the chance to crack Mac OSX?

 

[powermac_daddy]

once again i know what is going on here. but i can't speak for them.
haha.. just wait

 

[janstett]

One other point: Hacking is not for the lazy. Nor are all hackers ugly/shy/living in mom and dad's basement. You are just perpetrating stereotypes and it shows ignorance.

Not to mention he throws out the hard work of the open source community. Linux, Mozilla, FFMPEG, etc. He should take a stroll through sourceforge.com some time and see what tools the "hackers" are coming up with.

Why don't those guys just buy a mini?
499 isn't bad
we all know PCs are crap,
if they were real computer geeks they would already have a mac

Right, PCs are crap, which... is.. why.. Apple switched to Intel Processors?!?

Maybe they wanted some SPEED and PERFORMANCE.

I'm all fine with all of you people who believe that apple should make Mac OS X run on all x86 hardware. I mean, given that apple's profit model is set up for hardware, I wonder how long the company would last. (Mac OS = $130, Windows Pro = $230?) Probably would be out of business after a few years at least with that subsidized price... Greeeeeeeaaaat business plan.

Microsoft is extremely profitable. How do they make money?

(1) Licensing fees for Windows on virtually every PC built. I have no idea what it really is, but probably in the $20-$50 range.
(2) Office application sales.

Sounds like a good business plan to me. Hardware is a low-margin commodity. Anyone planning to make money on hardware is a fool.
Take a look at Sony with the PS2 (PS3). They take a loss selling the hardware and make it up on software because they have several first-party software houses. Hardware doesn't make money. Software does.

I have to believe Apple is learning this, look at the applications they have brought into the fold (iLife, iWork). Maybe Steve Jobs has finally learned and we're in the dying days of Apple's hardware fixation.

There has been talk of resurrecting "Yellow Box" -- allowing Windows users to run Mac applications on Windows. Why would Apple do this? (1) Learn the lessons of OS/2. You can have a superior OS, but as long as NOBODY DEVELOPS FOR IT, it doesn't matter, the inferior product will win. (2) Build the developer base, you need developers to bring applications to your platform for it to flourish. If they can develop using Apple tools and the apps will run on OSX *AND* on Windows (think Super Universal Binaries), then developers can write once and hit both target audiences. (3) Snatch some power and revenue from Microsoft with their Visual Studio .NET tools. (4) Why does iTunes exist on Win32, but other great applications like iPhoto, iMovie, haven't made their way over there too, where they would kick butt because there is no competition for them? Perhaps a Yellow Box iLife, which would bring in revenue for Apple from Windows users, is on the way.

I have to wonder if a Yellow Box iLife is in the pipeline. If so, Steve has learned his lessons.

 

[toxicfreak]

you are so right and even more

Microsoft is extremely profitable. How do they make money?

(1) Licensing fees for Windows on virtually every PC built. I have no idea what it really is, but probably in the $20-$50 range.
(2) Office application sales.

Sounds like a good business plan to me. Hardware is a low-margin commodity. Anyone planning to make money on hardware is a fool.
Take a look at Sony with the PS2 (PS3). They take a loss selling the hardware and make it up on software because they have several first-party software houses. Hardware doesn't make money. Software does.

I have to believe Apple is learning this, look at the applications they have brought into the fold (iLife, iWork). Maybe Steve Jobs has finally learned and we're in the dying days of Apple's hardware fixation.

If apple wanna REALLY make a stand port IWORK to other station. People can stand M$ anymore. I would jump on IWORK for linux and would pay the 100$can that come with it in a heart beat ......

And also if Apple would have like to stay pure untouch by Hacker/cracker/hobbist they should have stay the hell away from intel ....

Its like having a crosshair paint in red on a apple saying you cant get me hahaha ....

People wanna have a other alternative apple should realize that people will have there alternative legaly or not

 

[ezekielrage_99]

Right, PCs are crap, which... is.. why.. Apple switched to Intel Processors?!?

Maybe they wanted some SPEED and PERFORMANCE.

Yeah but the OS that comes with a PC really sucks.

Speed, performance and stability, yeah Apple has it all on the new Intel Macs

 

[windmaomao]

Yeah but the OS that comes with a PC really sucks.

Speed, performance and stability, yeah Apple has it all on the new Intel Macs

that's why everybody should be able to use it after purchasing the os, no matter which case you're using.

licenSe agreements have a purpose. Therefore, they are not stupid. Maybe when you have an invention that is worth billions, you will know why you should protect your investment.

This is where you have crossed the line to make Freedom as an excuse for Abuse.

that's the thing we're not getting any clear here. Who's trying to steal the invention from apple?
It's like a doctor invent a electronical leg for his patient and tell him you're not allowed to walk on water due to the license agreement the patient signed, but anyway he walks everywhere with it afterwards. Is he stealing the doc's leg? Man

 

[ezekielrage_99]

that's why everybody should be able to use it after purchasing the f*** os, no matter which case you're using.

I'll pay for Mac OSX because it's great (and I always do), Windows XP SUCKS I wont pay for a half finished product.

 

[nataku]

that's the thing we're not getting any clear here. Who's trying to steal the invention from apple?
It's like a doctor invent a electronical leg for his patient and tell him you're not allowed to walk on water due to the license agreement the patient signed, but anyway he walks everywhere with it afterwards. Is he stealing the doc's leg? Man

it may not be stealing but you are definitely violating something. by the way... you have to tell us all why would a doctor give a license agreement to his patient. that is very very very interesting because it is the very first time I have heard of it.

WHEN YOU BUY SOMETHING, YOU GET EVERYTHING THAT COMES WITH IT, ESPECIALLY RULES AND REGULATIONS

 

[billyboy]

Caveat, within the world of hardware and software: so dont go flaming me with analogies of cars or hospital service or guns

If Apple or MS or I want to put restrictions on how people use our products,so what? If the consumer doesnt like it, use something else. Nobody told Steve Jobs, Bill gates or me to get up one morning and do our legal duty to mankind and create a product that either doesnt exist at the present time or does something other products don't do.

In a free market, if you dont like what is going on with a product you have total freedom to withdraw your custom. You have total freedom to write to Mr Jobs and tell him where he is going wrong with his policy to control hardware and software coming from Cupertino. And he has total freedom to tell you to go and produce what you want and use it how you want.

The problem is so many people think someone else owes them a living so they hack or steal, or at the other end, people think they have the right to use a service or a product how they like just because they paid for it. Somewhere between the two is the reality.

Digital has opened up the world of information, but closed the minds of many who think somehow digital is free or open to abuse just because an original piece of material can be replicated infinitely at almost no extra cost. People don't care to look into the realities of business where in many cases, the cost of the product is almost nothing relative to getting up and ready and distributed.

Certainly Apple or IBM or MS didnt get where they are today by looking at everything from one perspective. They have their reasons for what they do, balancing a million things that dont even cross the minds of most of us. If you dont like their policies, tell them or boycott them, but rip them off? I think not.

Just my 2 cents to float into the ether.

 

[ijimk]

i guess this is good news

 

[kirk26]

Jesus! What's wrong with this site this year? There are more Mac stories on Windows website than here? Please hire more writers! For more rumors go to www.neowint.net or activewin.com.

 

[Apple-Alt-Ctr]

That's probably not too far behind. The RIAA's already saying that ripping CDs to an iPod is not fair use.

I imagine that they'll soon tell us to purchase a CD for each device that it's going to be played on.

You'll also need to repurchase it for each ear you wish to listen with.

Does Apple even offer it to buy?

Why would they? The only machine it's 'supposed' to work on already comes with it installed and on DVD.

 

[MonkeyClaw]

that's why everybody should be able to use it after purchasing the f*** os, no matter which case you're using.

Some of the beauty behind the OS is that Apple has very strict quality control tolerances. By choosing the hardware that goes into their machines, they can control the way the OS functions and reacts. A Mac is not simply the OS, it is the hardware. Without one, you can't have the other perform like its supposed to.

Thats why you pay a little more because in return you are given a complete working model of efficiency. If Apple started slapping OS X on every Dell regardless of hardware, stuff would go wrong, and the model that Apple has worked long and hard to make would be broken.

Thats why right now it is useless to install OS X on a PC because while some stuff is possible, the model has been broken therefore rendering the OS rather crippled. If you want OS X, then buy a Mac, it's that simple.

Oh by the way everyone, I'm new here Great forums you have going, I've been reading them for some time now and thought I would like to make a contribution in some small way, lol.

 

[Apple-Alt-Ctr]

I wouldn't say Apple is greedy... but they sure have a different approach to sucker in users as compared to Microsoft

For Microsoft, you get suckered in together with everyone else, visualise a meat grinder with a heap of people dropped into the hopper.. that's Microsoft.

For Apple when you get suckered you are pulled in heart and soul, making heaps of fanbois who walk around like borned again christians

My turn, Winboi! You mean simply 'born again'. No such word as 'borned' last time I looked.

once again i know what is going on here. but i can't speak for them.
haha.. just wait

You have a theory, which is no secret really amongst knowledgable Apple fans/users…

 

[MeatBiProduct]

I learn from the master.
I challange the master.
I become the master.


Is Apple putting the challange out to all those wannabe and hardcore hackers'n'crackers out there to have the chance to crack Mac OSX?

lol anyone that thinks software is indestructible look up: syncrosoft
http://www.syncrosoft.com/

and how their software, even though it took a year and a half, was completely emulated and cracked. this was supposedly the ultimate hardware copyright protection. Now its all but washed up.

Audio software cracking group H20 brought cracking to new level in May 2005 when they annouced their crack of Steinberg products using Syncrosoft protection such as Nuendo 3.0 and Cubase 3.0 with a full mp3 album of songs, and a music video mocking developer Steinberg and Syncrosoft, who had claimed that their dongle-protection was un-crackable.

Don't throw salt into the eyes of the beast, it might just wake up and bite.

A lil MS fun:

Software cracking might become much harder to perform with the release of the Fritz-chip (Fritz-chip: the fritz-chip is a nickname for the hardware component of a software-execution monitoring...
[follow hyperlink for more...]) in combination with certain software, like nexus in the next major operating system software that controls the execution of computer programs and may provide various services) from Microsoft, code-named Longhorn. It will be virtually impossible to crack the actual encryption. One way to bypass the copy prevention (not the encryption) might be to emulate (emulate: an emulator, in the most general sense, duplicates (provide an emulation of) the functions...a computer with a compromised Fritz-chip. One could then crack the software while it is in the emulator, and then extract it to a real computer.

 

[Apple-Alt-Ctr]

Right, PCs are crap, which... is.. why.. Apple switched to Intel Processors?!?

Maybe they wanted some SPEED and PERFORMANCE.

Macs have always been PCs (Personal Computers). I think the original poster meant that Wintel machines are crap. But its those first 3 letters of Wintel which are the reason they're 'crap'. The hardware itself with a lovely OS such as OS X or linux suddenly becomes much more respectable.

 

[MeatBiProduct]

Some of the beauty behind the OS is that Apple has very strict quality control tolerances. By choosing the hardware that goes into their machines, they can control the way the OS functions and reacts. A Mac is not simply the OS, it is the hardware. Without one, you can't have the other perform like its supposed to.

Thats why you pay a little more because in return you are given a complete working model of efficiency. If Apple started slapping OS X on every Dell regardless of hardware, stuff would go wrong, and the model that Apple has worked long and hard to make would be broken.

Thats why right now it is useless to install OS X on a PC because while some stuff is possible, the model has been broken therefore rendering the OS rather crippled. If you want OS X, then buy a Mac, it's that simple.

Oh by the way everyone, I'm new here Great forums you have going, I've been reading them for some time now and thought I would like to make a contribution in some small way, lol.

If apple only chooses such great equipment where are the SLI motherboards and multicore 64bit AMD chips? Your statement is just preaching from the hill to the choir, you just think that apple is giving you something special. Prove me wrong by providing a link to hardware that you can't purchase yourself. (other than the mobo/processor that apple holds so tight under wraps)

 

[Lyserjic]

that's why everybody should be able to use it after purchasing the f*** os, no matter which case you're using.

A few points for all you cheap bastards clamoring for Apple to open OS X up to anyone with a Walmart PC clone..

1. Scenario...Apple licenses OS X to Dell. Cool you think? No..Imagine the response from Microsoft. I was an OS/2 user from 1992-2000. I know what it's like doing battle with the Microsoft FUD machine. For those of you who were too young to remember it, the Microsoft "behind the scenes" work to undermine OS/2 was something we don't need repeated with OS X. I'm quite sure Apple isn't that stupid..The last company they need to piss off is Microsoft.

2. OS X released to the "world" so to speak would destroy sales of Apple's hardware sales, plain and simple. And there would be no more Apple...Apple is company, they have to MAKE MONEY (wow, what a concept no one seems understand) to continue to produce the quality products everyone seems to want to steal, hack, feel they have the "right" to use wherever, etc..

3. Apple has EVERY RIGHT to control what hardware OS X runs on. It's their software. What law says they have to make their software run on anything? I don't see people clamoring at Microsoft to make their software compatible with Linux..or Linux users screaming that Microsoft needs to release Office for Linux?

Want to run something better than Windows on your PC? There's a zillion Linux distros out there, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Plan9, Solaris, the list goes on. Install one and expand your horizons.

I've been involved with computers and this industry for over 20 years. My first computer was a Commodore VIC-20 I got in 8th grade in 1981. First PC clone in 1988..Bought my first Mac 4 months ago..Still wondering what too me so long. Hope to get a another (PPC) Mini before they switch to Intel.

I understand better than most why people like OS X...Let's just keep it on Apple hardware..

-Lyserjic

 

[jhu]

Some of the beauty behind the OS is that Apple has very strict quality control tolerances. By choosing the hardware that goes into their machines, they can control the way the OS functions and reacts. A Mac is not simply the OS, it is the hardware. Without one, you can't have the other perform like its supposed to.

Thats why you pay a little more because in return you are given a complete working model of efficiency. If Apple started slapping OS X on every Dell regardless of hardware, stuff would go wrong, and the model that Apple has worked long and hard to make would be broken.

Thats why right now it is useless to install OS X on a PC because while some stuff is possible, the model has been broken therefore rendering the OS rather crippled. If you want OS X, then buy a Mac, it's that simple.

Oh by the way everyone, I'm new here Great forums you have going, I've been reading them for some time now and thought I would like to make a contribution in some small way, lol.

while the integration issue is somewhat true, there are multiple reports of people running copies of os x on other x86 machines that work quite well. when you get a group of people dedicated enough to want to try to get something to work, it will work. that's the hacker mentality. witness all of the quality open source source software out there.

 

[MeatBiProduct]

Yeah but the OS that comes with a PC really sucks.

Speed, performance and stability, yeah Apple has it all on the new Intel Macs

what O/S comes with a PC? lol

Mine came as a bunch of parts and I downloaded 4 discs from Debian.