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No.The only salient point here is Apple should stop accusing Samsung for doing the same things they themselves do every other day.If Samsung copied Apple then this also holds true based on their lame claims
You can post whatever memes you want. On top the note 7, and washing machine fiasco, I'm sure Samsung is using those very memes in their boardroom and will show them to the court in an attempt to stop apple from successfully collecting billions and billions. The remainder of the case is proceeding and all can post whatever they want about it. As I can tell from the article, this is about "how much".
 
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You can post whatever memes you want. On top the note 7, and washing machine fiasco, I'm sure Samsung is using those very memes in their boardroom and will show them to the court in an attempt to stop apple from successfully collecting billions and billions. The remainder of the case is proceeding and all can post whatever they want about it. As I can tell from the article, this is about "how much".
Actually no.The only thing which happened is that consumers got shifted thanks to Apple.Samsung will simply raise the price of their products to recover these payments as will Apple to recover their legal fees with the end result being lawyers pocketing the dough. Thanks Apple on winning the suit using a obscure section of the patent laws I am sure
 
Actually no.The only thing which happened is that consumers got shifted thanks to Apple.Samsung will simply raise the price of their products to recover these payments as will Apple to recover their legal fees with the end result being lawyers pocketing the dough. Thanks Apple on winning the suit using a obscure section of the patent laws I am sure
You mean, thanks to Samsung blatantly copying Apples designs. This may be the court case, that started the Samsung copies Apple memes found on this board. Whatever the outcome, it is years away and people can post any vitriol, if it helps them feel better, but won't affect the outcome of case.
 
You mean, thanks to Samsung blatantly copying Apples designs. This may be the court case, that started the Samsung copies Apple memes found on this board. Whatever the outcome, it is years away and people can post any vitriol, if it helps them feel better, but won't affect the outcome of case.
Just because Samsung didnt feel like a patent troll and didnt sue Apple doesnt And multiple patent cases have been won in the US on flimsy grounds.For instance,the slide to unlock patent and even the Skydrive case on Microsoft.The patent laws just favour patent trolls.Apple has multiple cases with Samsung based on copying and sometimes the latter wins,sometimes the former.All that is happening is who can defend or prosecute on the most obscure points of the law wins,not based on who REALLY copied who.

And yes I agree.This does not change the outcome.The lawyers became fatter,our pockets became thinner

On a sidenote I wonder why Apple hasnt sued Google yet.The Pixel is literally an iPhone with the home button on the back
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But thats innovation, Apple never do things first, they perfect it in an innovative fashion ;)

Wait until iPhone 8 comes out.OLED,wireless charging and curved edge display will become marvelous Apple inventions.

Hopefully Samsung wont sue Apple on this
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Samsung copied apple for a long time. Though hey let's have 10 years of lawsuits, shows the joke that the law is when you have the money to keep cases tied up

Not to mention even if true Samsung is just following Jobs principles. Apple is suing Samsung for something their founder encouraged!

Bn3R83uIYAA6iJE.jpg
 
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Just because Samsung didnt feel like a patent troll and didnt sue Apple doesnt And multiple patent cases have been won in the US on flimsy grounds.For instance,the slide to unlock patent and even the Skydrive case on Microsoft.The patent laws just favour patent trolls.Apple has multiple cases with Samsung based on copying and sometimes the latter wins,sometimes the former.All that is happening is who can defend or prosecute on the most obscure points of the law wins,not based on who REALLY copied who.

And yes I agree.This does not change the outcome.The lawyers became fatter,our pockets became thinner

On a sidenote I wonder why Apple hasnt sued Google yet.The Pixel is literally an iPhone with the home button on the back
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Wait until iPhone 8 comes out.OLED,wireless charging and curved edge display will become marvelous Apple inventions.

Hopefully Samsung wont sue Apple on this
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Not to mention even if true Samsung is just following Jobs principles. Apple is suing Samsung for something their founder encouraged!

Bn3R83uIYAA6iJE.jpg
If Samsung thought they had a court case they would have sued and won. Or are you suggesting Samsung is acting with great largesse here.

And with that jobs meme are you saying Samsung did steal?
 
I don't understand why they can't forget this and move on. Bring on the iPhone 8 and Galaxy S8 and let consumers duke it out in the marketplace.

"If someone potentially owed me several hundred million dollars but other people were sick of hearing about it, I would just forget it and move on"
 
What I can't get my head around is.....how they are going to break out the revenue based on just the particular components in the lawsuit????????
 
I don't see the hypocrisy. Xerox granted Apple access to Parc concepts in exchange for Apple stock.

That's the commonly repeated myth, but the two events were reversed and not contractually related.

Around 1979, Apple was offering pre-IPO stock options to many investors, no strings attached. At the time, Apple needed angel investors, needed the money, and the best way to raise interest in a new stock is to offer pre-IPO options. Thus there was need for Xerox to offer anything in return for the investment Apple needed.

Xerox Development Corporation (XDC - an investment arm) took 1.6% of the pre-IP stock options (they didn't actually buy it for another year or so).

It was LATER ON after this that Steve Jobs took advantage of contacts made via that PRE-EXISTING XDC investment connection, to wrangle (Xerox insiders say "bully") his way into a late 1979 visit to the totally different Xerox PARC section.

What was the arrangement between Apple and XEROX PARC in those times for when Apple copied bitmapping, networking and object programing?

Despite the fanboy myth about stock that arose in the 1990s, Apple themselves never claimed they got a license to use what they saw on their visit, not even when they were sued by Xerox.

The only software contract that is known to exist, was the later 1981 license that Xerox gave HP, Apple, DEC and Tektronix for Smalltalk 80 Version 1.

Later in 1987, when Apple filed for copyright registration of the Mac Finder, their application described it as a derivative work based on Lisa, with no mention of Xerox.

That's what prompted Xerox to sue Apple for IP theft. As noted in a 1989 NY Times article :

"Xerox's suit, which was filed in Federal District Court, charges Apple with copyright misrepresentation and seeks more than $150 million in royalties and damages.

"Xerox contends that the Lisa and Macintosh software stems from work originally done by Xerox scientists and that it was used by Apple without permission."

And, how did that arrangement (if there is any) make it so that it had a difference with what Bill Gates did when copying the same things from Apple for its software?

Apple had made a deal with Microsoft in 1985 allowing them to sell Windows 1.0 and derivative works without problem. However, as Windows got to look more like the Mac, Apple sued over look and feel.

Unfortunately for Apple, the courts (original and appeals) decided that since both companies had gotten the basic idea of a GUI from Xerox, Apple could not claim overall look and feel.

Instead, each element had to be examined on its own. Done that way, almost every piece was found to be either licensed or obvious.

The end result of this affects us today. Not being able to leverage copyright law or look & feel forced Apple to turn to software patents instead.
 
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This is like comparing the Nissan Skyline to the 911. The 911 is iconic, and has gotten incrementally better over time. It's still the best sports car out there, while others try to out do it in numbers. But driving a 911 leaves no doubt which is the best car out there, same ol' design and everything....
Sorry, no. The Nissan Skyline R34 is not only more iconic than the 911, it's also more beautiful.
 
Those facts have never been in doubt. This latest round is merely about revisiting and reassessing the true amount of damages incurred by Apple.
This is almost an impossible task. How do you assign a % or dollar amount to round vs square corners on a device (for example).

Correct, the trial section about copying is over now that the Supreme Court refused to deal with that part. Without access to prior art, that jury found that Samsung had infringed.

What's left is the award calculation. Judge Koh had instructed the jury that any design patent infringement meant that all of the infringer's profits for the entire phone could be taken. So the jury often did so, giving Apple some or all of Samsung's profits basically because they had a "grid of colorful icons" or a rounded rectangular face.

The basis for this was an assumption that the "article of manufacture" to which a design patent applied, was always the entire product. That is, even a tiny icon in a settings page applied to, and was worth, the entire device.

Now SCOTUS has clarified that the article of manufacture to consider, can be less than the entire product. Note that even Apple agreed with that, as otherwise they themselves would be in huge danger from design lawsuits.

In other words, each design patent is now not automatically worth the entire device it's in. The previous misinterpretation would mean that ten design patent holders could sue a company and EACH ONE could demand the entire profits, meaning the company would have to give ten times what it had made. Which makes no sense.

So now Judge Koh must figure out a way to figure out what each article of manufacture was. I.e. was it the entire device, or was it just the outside case or frontal design, as some law scholars suggest.

It's illegal to copy implementations, not ideas. The problem that Samsung had is that it's basically a blatant copy. Look at the phone icon. There are an large number of ways to do a phone icon, so Samsung picked a phone icon with the same green and orientation as Apple did. Of course!

Your questions really should be, why did Apple copy the same color and style that had been used before them?

Why did Apple copy the left leaning orientation? After all, not only had that slant already been used by others, but going left was actually kind of a hallmark of HTC phones. (Other makers had it facing straight down or up.)

Third party touchscreen dialers for WinMo were among the first to use white on green. And then Skype did the same. All before the iPhone.

after_skype.png


So if Apple had wanted to be unique, they could've used a different color and orientation. Heck, they could've kept using the dialup icon they already had (see above). Why didn't they?

The answer is, of course, that the whole point of that particular icon was to be familiar to previous cell phone users. That's why Apple and Samsung used what was already a user known design riff.

In fact, Apple couldn't get a trademark on the original icon used in their Jan 2007 reveal, because it was not unique. So Apple added background stripes.

phone_icons_trademark.png


Samsung's own icon, with more detail and no stripes, came nowhere close to infringing Apple's trademark.

Why have the dock at the bottom? Why not put it on the side? Why aren't the icons the same size as Apple's?

Docks on a touch device make the most sense at the bottom. That's why phones previous to Apple's had them there. Ditto for icon grid sizes, which needed to meet minimal finger press sizes.

Samsung denialists say "no they didn't copy it." You can only say that if you don't know what came before the iPhone.

You can also only believe that Apple invented all this stuff, if you don't know what came before the iPhone.
 
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If Samsung thought they had a court case they would have sued and won. Or are you suggesting Samsung is acting with great largesse here.
Unlike Apple,not everyone is interested in suing.Better spend the money on real innovation. Apple and Samsung have a love hate relationship.They sue for fun.

As kdarling proved above you can see how much Apple has ripped off the competition and gotten away with it because they know no smaller company is a threat to them as they can brute force their way out.Heck Samsung gets a lot money from Apple because most of the components are sourced from them so they are "paid" to keep silent


And with that jobs meme are you saying Samsung did steal?
No.They didnt.But from a hypothetical perspecitive even if they did,they are just following Jobs principles
 
The funniest part of this all that Samsung did copy Apple in the early days. Fast forward today it's Samsung who's got innovative ideas and Apple same old, same old (+ expensive).
[doublepost=1484421878][/doublepost]Yeah. It was awfully innovative to make a phone that explodes in your pocket or burns down your car or house. They were WAY ahead of Apple on that one.
 
Unlike Apple,not everyone is interested in suing.Better spend the money on real innovation. Apple and Samsung have a love hate relationship.They sue for fun.

As kdarling proved above you can see how much Apple has ripped off the competition and gotten away with it because they know no smaller company is a threat to them as they can brute force their way out.Heck Samsung gets a lot money from Apple because most of the components are sourced from them so they are "paid" to keep silent
Not everybody has a case strong enough to win. As kdarling pointed out, apple has a case, even taking account the shenaningans of MIcrosoft and apple at the beginning. Here we are today and the only question is how much.

No.They didnt.But from a hypothetical perspecitive even if they did,they are just following Jobs principles
Well the courts found otherwise, but I found it interesting about reaching beyond the ether, again.
 
[doublepost=1484421878][/doublepost]Yeah. It was awfully innovative to make a phone that explodes in your pocket or burns down your car or house. They were WAY ahead of Apple on that one.

You were saying?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...new-iPhone-7-explodes-shop-worker-s-hand.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-battery-overheated-sparked-fire-cockpit.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3854854/Surfer-claims-new-iPhone-7-exploded.html
 
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Sounds like you don't know what innovation actually is. Apple's design philosophy has never been 'different for the sake of different', like their competitors. Apple only does things which make a legitimate improvement to user experience. Samsung have changed phone designs hundreds of times at all price points, is each one any different in usability from the last? No. Apple doesn't design for interest and 2 weeks of reporter attention. A dual curved edge screen, how interesting, many articles and videos. What's it like to actually use? An abysmal design mistake with serious usability issues.

Only certain people fall for things just because they're new and different. The addition of tens of half-baked technologies which work 60-80% of the time isn't fantastic either. Something Android manufacturers do a lot. Again, just something new and different, not better.

Yet people still for it and they funnily, hilariously even, have become the kind of consumers people that people used to joke were Apple's customers.
A perfect case in point, although a different product line, is exemplified by Apple's steadfast refusal to gimmick-up the Mac with a "touchscreen".

Think about it.

The same company who introduced the first SUCESSFUL and market-changing touchscreen-based products (iPhone and iPad), and who clearly understood both the technology and the usability of "touch" in general, and who even applied for a Patent on a touchscreen iMac in 2010 that is now being EXACTLY copied by Microsoft for its "Surface Studio", clearly showing they were studying the concept, STILL decides to "buck the trend" with touchscreen computers. And, unlike EVERYONE else, goes to the expense and trouble developing the TouchBar; which uniquely incorporates the good elements of a graphical Touch-based interface, but without the ergonomic pitfalls of having that interface be at the distance and elevation of a non-handheld display.

Why?

Because Apple knows the difference between a Gimmick and a Feature!


Oh, and lest you not believe me, here is that 2010 Apple patent, showing not only the EXACT representation that became the "revolutionary" Surface Studio (6 YEARS before its debut), but also what looks suspiciously-like a representation of a "tile-based" UI, JUST like what MS later unveiled as "Metro". Hmmm. Hadn't noticed THAT before...

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/08/the-mother-lode-welcome-to-the-imac-touch.html
 
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The only winners in this are the lawyers...

I personally think that Samsung should have been buried for this sort of blatant copying. When Apple asked Microsoft to write software for the Mac, they did not protect their ideas, we all saw what happened after that. With the iPhone, Steve was very strong about patenting everything about it. It still got copied.I don't want to see Samsung become MS, history should NOT repeat itself.
 
If Samsung thought they had a court case they would have sued and won. Or are you suggesting Samsung is acting with great largesse here.

And with that jobs meme are you saying Samsung did steal?

Actually, Samsung did counter-sue and won. But guess what? Apple went asking Obama for help. Obama reversed Samsung's ITC win which would have banned Apple's iPhone.

It is no coincidence that Apple lost lawsuits everywhere, but in the US. In the UK, for instance, Apple was ordered to apologize to Samsung. In Germany, after obtaining an injunction on the Galaxy tab's with "doctored" evidence, Apple was defeated on every single account. So let's not pretend that Apple's victory was grounded on some sounding legal principle or impartial jury/judge system.
 
The funniest part of this all that Samsung did copy Apple in the early days. Fast forward today it's Samsung who's got innovative ideas and Apple same old, same old (+ expensive).

What is Samsung doing that is so innovative? Not trolling, legit question. I feel like we have already reached peak smartphone, and the industry as a whole needs to wait for the next breakthrough technology.
 
Actually, Samsung did counter-sue and won. But guess what? Apple went asking Obama for help. Obama reversed Samsung's ITC win which would have banned Apple's iPhone.

It is no coincidence that Apple lost lawsuits everywhere, but in the US. In the UK, for instance, Apple was ordered to apologize to Samsung. In Germany, after obtaining an injunction on the Galaxy tab's with "doctored" evidence, Apple was defeated on every single account. So let's not pretend that Apple's victory was grounded on some sounding legal principle or impartial jury/judge system.
In the legal system either you win or don't win. That's all that counts.
 
What is Samsung doing that is so innovative? Not trolling, legit question. I feel like we have already reached peak smartphone, and the industry as a whole needs to wait for the next breakthrough technology.

The next breakthrough technology is going to have to be non-exploding batteries.
 
Actually no.The only thing which happened is that consumers got shifted thanks to Apple.Samsung will simply raise the price of their products to recover these payments as will Apple to recover their legal fees with the end result being lawyers pocketing the dough. Thanks Apple on winning the suit using a obscure section of the patent laws I am sure
Actually, no.

If you take a glance at the picture at the top of the MR article, you should PLAINLY see that it doesn't take "an obscure section of the patent laws" to determine whether Samsung "...deliberately released a product intended to confuse the unwary consumer..."

I mean, it's similar to a company that starts releasing products in the same categories as Apple, using a corporate logo that is a sylized Apple, but without the iconic "bite", and calling themselves "!Apple" (a geek joke, meaning "NOT Apple").

But !Apple's products all run Windows 10 and Android. So they are CLEARLY "NOT Apple".

Should Apple be able to sue them successfully? What would YOUR arguments be, if you were APPLE's attorney? Now, what would your arguments be if you were !Apple's attorney?

Now, what would your decision be as the JUDGE? Was there an attempt to deceive? What damages, if any, are indicated?
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And here we go again. The Mac left in autopilot (nobody at the cockpit), while Apple and Samsung gift us a new episode in their love and hate series, with a teen pop soundtrack.

Hmmm... is the Sierra PDFKit still broken? Nevermind, let's watch the new episode.
Anybody who actually takes a look at the new MBPs and concludes that the Mac is left on Autopilot, simply isn't paying attention.
 
And here we go again. The Mac left in autopilot (nobody at the cockpit), while Apple and Samsung gift us a new episode in their love and hate series, with a teen pop soundtrack.

Hmmm... is the Sierra PDFKit still broken? Nevermind, let's watch the new episode.

Here is a completely authoritative article describing how to install the PDFKit fro Ma ericks(!!!), which is widely considered to be the last "stable" version of PDFKit. However, before you start up Terminal and start typing, notice at the bottom of the article, where it notes that Sierra 10.12.2 seems to have addressed the problems in PDFKit, except for a minor annoyance or two that can be lived-with.

http://www.mnott.de/how-to-workaround-the-****ed-up-pdfkit-in-sierra/
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Thank you for digging that up!!!
 
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