Apple Wants $73.4 Million From Epic Games to Cover Its Legal Expenses

[phenste]

Tim Sweeny is the majority shareholder of Epic Games. He'd have to remove himself.

wow, majority shareholder and he f—ked up this bad? that’s a shame. I really cannot imagine being lucky enough to have the most popular battle royale game on BOTH of the dominant mobile gaming platforms, only to spit in the face of both companies for giving you a platform to sell your game on, and drudge the legal case on for four years all the way up to the Supreme Court. he really should just cut his losses and retire, this is going to be remembered decades from now as one of the most foolish decisions by a gaming exec of all time (roughly the polar opposite of Microsoft swooping in and buying Bungie when Halo was still a teeny Mac title)

 

[BugeyeSTI]

Tim Sweeny owns 51% of it. Epic Games has a market cap of over $30 billion, they'll be fine. It was worth a try, and for Tim Sweeny it was a question of principle, not merely of money.

Sticking to that principal was the equivalent of a rectal exam performed by Shaquille O'Neal without lubrication..

 

[phenste]

I don’t get the users here wanting harm to come to Epic. Hopefully none of you decide to develop an app because your opinion will change very fast…

your use of the word “harm” here is interesting—it implies that people are wishing ill on the wellbeing of those who work at Epic. not quite the case. moreso that Epic, as a corporation, deserves every bit of financial punishment it gets for dragging on such a frivolous suit.

as a matter of fact, as far as harm towards individuals goes (just gonna make a hypothetical observation)—Tim Sweeney ostensibly caused massive levels of stress for everyone at his company by carrying this on with such a personal agenda, it’s kinda disgusting when you think deeply about it…(either that or everyone at Epic engages in the kind of cultish thinking that justified this lawsuit, in which case…*shrug* would be a weird company to work for I guess)

 

[cyb3rdud3]

your use of the word “harm” here is interesting—it implies that people are wishing ill on the wellbeing of those who work at Epic. not quite the case. moreso that Epic, as a corporation, deserves every bit of financial punishment it gets for dragging on such a frivolous suit.

as a matter of fact, as far as harm towards individuals goes (just gonna make a hypothetical observation)—Tim Sweeney ostensibly caused massive levels of stress for everyone at his company by carrying this on with such a personal agenda, it’s kinda disgusting when you think deeply about it…(either that or everyone at Epic engages in the kind of cultish thinking that justified this lawsuit, in which case…*shrug* would be a weird company to work for I guess)

Indeed, and for reasons why the good old 'follow the money (and legal entities)' nearly always works to get an idea surrounding the drivers.

 

[threesixty360]

Tim Sweeny owns 51% of it. Epic Games has a market cap of over $30 billion, they'll be fine. It was worth a try, and for Tim Sweeny it was a question of principle, not merely of money.

Fair enough, its his money after all.
I think he would have been better off lobbying government than taking apple to court though. The EU's gatekeeper rulings have more clauses that stop apple giving a worse experience.

I feel like all Tim has done is reinforce the ruling that Apple should make money off any software sold for their platform even if Apple dont distribute the software. Thats even beyond what Nintendo, xbox et al have got going on. Tims case has actually set the industry back massively if they wanted to be free of Apple.

 

[Zest28]

So now we are going to get a lawsuit about who has to pay for the bill of the lawsuit?

Apple lawyers have found an infinite money glitch.

 

[Ethosik]

They are in a lawsuit with Google also that is still ongoing. Fortnight isn’t in the play store or the iOS App Store anymore

Yes people seem to forget this fact. Epic wants Android to change too since it’s “too difficult” to side load.

 

[gaximus]

If Epic were to do this, Apple would be the one to lose out big time because they get a big chunk of money from Epic's users. Yes Epic would lose money too but it would hurt Apple more if Epic stopped providing all their games on the app store.

If Epic's users, mostly kids, were to stop playing Epic games on the iPhone, then that would be it. It's not like those kids would go buy Android phones just for some games. Also the money comes from the parents, who can easily just approve the in app purchases from their iPhones. Epic knows this, or this would have been their strategy from the beginning, just threaten Apple to pull their games from the beginning. but instead they went with the much sketchier, illegal, back door, stealing payments method, that landed them in court, thinking they had user support, promising they would pay Apple legal fees if they lost...strategy.

 

[macos9rules]

If I was Epic I would basically cut my losses, pay the bill, remove ALL Epic apps from Apple app store and only make them available on Google's play store and put notices on Epic's website stating that if people want to play the mobile version of their games they are going to have to purchase an android phone. Gamers will move over to android because they need their gaming 'fix'. Yes Epic will lose out in the short term but gradually mobile gamers will move from Apple to android so they could continue to play their favorite mobile games.

If Epic were to do this, Apple would be the one to lose out big time because they get a big chunk of money from Epic's users. Yes Epic would lose money too but it would hurt Apple more if Epic stopped providing all their games on the app store.

Do they have games available on the App Store?

 

[coffeemilktea]

I guess the end result of the battle between the two Tims is that the Fortnite season pass is going to double in price now. 😩

Epic has to recoup that $73.4 million of poorly thought-out choices somehow.

 

[dynamojoe]

Somewhere, Elon is looking at Epic's decisions in this case and nods approvingly

I doubt it. He owns a closed system as well (it's in every Tesla) and I very much doubt he'd be amenable to opening it up to developers and their own stores. Then again, Elon dropped $44B on twitter and look what he's done with that, so maybe he appreciates terrible decisions.

 

[xSushi]

I guess Epic Games won't be developing for the Vision Pro 😂

 

[dynamojoe]

Do they have games available on the App Store?

Nope. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53955183

 

[victorvictoria]

As poorly as Sweeney handled this, and acknowledging that they did, admittedly, violate the license agreement, the suit wasn’t entirely frivolous. They did it in the most ass way possible but eventually someone was going to test that policy in court.

In the end they just hurt themselves and precedent more than anything.

This damages motion is as much a warning to others as anything. Don’t try it, because not only can Apple afford more justice than you, you’re going to be paying for it anyway.

Apple is NOT the villian in this story. Epic was not injured when they signed a contract agreeing to the terms therein, then refused to abide by it, in sole pursuit of increased profit. Epic should pay up and shut up. Any other action would no doubt result in more damage to their brand and their bottom line.

 

[victorvictoria]

If I was Epic I would basically cut my losses, pay the bill, remove ALL Epic apps from Apple app store and only make them available on Google's play store and put notices on Epic's website stating that if people want to play the mobile version of their games they are going to have to purchase an android phone. Gamers will move over to android because they need their gaming 'fix'.

Yep, because Apple users are going to migrate to Android to play games. Said no one ever. If you were Epic, your company would cease to exist.

 

[t0rqx]

Apart from the #1 money making machine the iPhone this is #2 how they generate income.

 

[redheeler]

Huh!? Have you been following the whole story and understand what has lead to this point? It seems not as that is a very odd thing to day. This is entirely self inflicted by Epic.

Epic Games disagreed with the App Store policies and challenged them in court. That's what happened here. Or am I missing something?

I don't care if "Tim Sweeney had it coming" blah blah blah, this has implications for every single app developer on the App Store. It took a company the size of Epic to challenge Apple as small developers can't afford a lengthy court battle, and the outcome is pretty unfortunate for any developer not named Apple.

Our court system these days is massively stacked in favor of large corporations like Apple and against small individual developers. Imagine a small developer getting this bill. That's our "democracy" for you.

 

[Student of Life]

Ultimately was it really worth it?
I’d love to see how much money Epic has lost over this?
It must be ridiculous. Are they a public company? I can’t believe they are or sweeney would have gone ages ago.

The court documents had Epic making a little over a billion a year in sales on the Apple Store, so that comes out to 700 million dollars a year. Its been over three years they have been off the App Store, so the base floor would be 2.1 billion dollars (700mil x 3), then you add Epics own legal cost which is unknown at the moment and the fees of Apple legal cost of around 73 million. Those are fixed cost.

 

[Truckondo]

Nope. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53955183

Rocket League is still on there.

 

[PlainBelliedSneetch]

If I was Epic I would basically cut my losses, pay the bill, remove ALL Epic apps from Apple app store and only make them available on Google's play store and put notices on Epic's website stating that if people want to play the mobile version of their games they are going to have to purchase an android phone. Gamers will move over to android because they need their gaming 'fix'. Yes Epic will lose out in the short term but gradually mobile gamers will move from Apple to android so they could continue to play their favorite mobile games.

If Epic were to do this, Apple would be the one to lose out big time because they get a big chunk of money from Epic's users. Yes Epic would lose money too but it would hurt Apple more if Epic stopped providing all their games on the app store.

Are you referring to games made by other companies using the Unreal Engine? ALL Epic games were removed from the Apple App Store years ago.

 

[xacwhite]

This case was silly from the beginning

 

[spazzcat]

By your logic, Apple is making more money from Epic's games than Epic itself is making.
I doubt that.

Apple may making more money on Epics lawsuits than the 15% from their games.

 

[spazzcat]

I read, 'Apple wants $73.4 million' and thought they must be talking about a new product!

The judge ruled that Epic owes Apple 73.4 million and he gave them a 10% discount.

 

[threesixty360]

The court documents had Epic making a little over a billion a year in sales on the Apple Store, so that comes out to 700 million dollars a year. Its been over three years they have been off the App Store, so the base floor would be 2.1 billion dollars (700mil x 3), then you add Epics own legal cost which is unknown at the moment and the fees of Apple legal cost of around 73 million. Those are fixed cost.

Epic Games annual income 2026| Statista

In 2024, video game publisher and software developer Epic Games is projected to generate approximately 907 million U.S.

www.statista.com

It looks like it's cost them nearly a 3rd of their 2018 revenue. If you want to go deeper and pinpoint the time the case started and they were removed from the store (2019/2020?) thats nearly half their yearly revenue.

The court case he brought was utter madness. Principal be damned!
I cant believe he lost half the company income for over 3yrs to get nothing in return.
I suppose you have to have it to lose it... but I'm sure his companies workers aren't laughing (must have hit several bonuses and wage increases I imagine).

 

[mrochester]

It’s sad to see Tim Sweeney giving developers such a bad name. It’s like how Donald Trump has given Republicans a bad name. The association is so damaging.