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I will get one solely because I collect watches but it's beens said over and over. This watch will NEVER truly replace our timepieces until at minimum it works for 3-4 days in between charges is waterproof, & can function without an iPhone. I travel to Asia all the time from the east coast of the USA, the reality is from home to hotel your watch will be dead, that's unacceptable.

No electronic watch will ever replace high-end timepieces.

The "problem" with tech devices like this is that you will want the newer model in two years. That is the business model. There will be a small market for the high-end Edition first release models depending on how many they make, but for the most part, any Apple Watch you buy will be essentially worthless over time, regardless of how long it lasts between charges. Furthermore, there are many, very expensive, coveted watches that are not waterproof. That is a great feature for everyday wear, but it is not necessary for a general watch collector.

My advice is to buy this if you want one. I do, and I will. But I'm under no false illusions that I'm going to make money later selling it. It is a nice piece of tech, not an investment.
 
Right but 99.9% of people are not horologists or delve into that hobby... well unless there is a adolescent joke in there. Normal people do not know watch jargon. It's not 1947. They understand the common dictionary version of the word.

I get your point. But the use of the term "complications" by Apple is about associating the :apple:watch with the high end watch market. They don't want it to be categorised as a smart watch, rather they want the consumer to view it is the next evolution of the classical high end watch. I know this is all semantics, but the image the :apple:watch acquires will be key to its success. If it's seen as geeky, it'll flop. The battle here is all about getting the watch accepted by the public. While it might come over as pretentious of Apple to use such terms as "complications", I suspect it's actually very clever marketing.
 
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Should be interesting to see how often the hardware gets updated for these watches. Will the thinner each year meme remain the same?
 
people stealing watches and wallet requires physical contact. apple pay doesnt require physical contact. totally different things

It does require physical contact! It does require you to double tap the home button and that is called physical contact! Gee... do people even read anything now days!!
 
I've been working as a developer on Apple Watch for the last few weeks for a major retailer. Frankly it's a piece of crap. Don't expect much from third party apps at launch.

Right now, with the available APIs, it's comically limited with what you can do. Layout of UI elements, despite the tiny screen, is like writing web pages in the mid-90s when browser technology sucked. While Android wearables are running full apps and even games like Flappy Bird, Apple Watch is basically just a tiny screen and nothing else. Nothing actually runs on the watch itself - it's just a small screen to display apps that have barely any more functionality than the stuff you find on the Today notifications screen on your phone.

I assume you haven't been working with the actual hardware, just the simulator. Speaking from experience with other unreleased devices, it's a HUGE difference when you're using the real hardware.

Apple watch is for frictionless info. Maybe people can play flappy bird on their Android Wear, but they're not going to do it except for a cool demo for friends. It would be silly. Extended use is not what the watch is about.
 
i did not imply any of that. stop putting words in my mouth. my question is perfectly valid and neutral.

people stealing watches and wallet requires physical contact. apple pay doesnt require physical contact. totally different things

Haha yeah okay sure, you have to be wearing the watch on your wrist to even use the thing, it knows it's you so it unlocks the watch for you and you double click the "contacts" button to use Apple Pay, so yes physical contact is required :p
 
What's to prevent someone from stealing your wallet on a crowded subway? Or even your watch if you're that oblivious to allow someone to double click the crown, then to click your watch and say 'yes' to accept the charge.

People act as if Apple makes a decision on how something works without spending hours and hours talking about it amongst dozens of people trying to find loopholes.

Sometimes they do. As with some of the ridiculous decisions made by all companies.
 
To an intended target audience who is likely to not understand the heritage.
I guess that would be me. I don't care about expensive heirloom watches (though I did inherit a gold railway watch from my father).
The word "complications" just seemed strange to me when I first read it. Then I read an explanation of what it means in watch jargon, and I though it was pretty cool.

So the "complications" on an Apple Watch are just digital representations of watch complications. I still think they're pretty cool. They'll look fine next to the digital representations of the hour, minute, and sweep second hand.

So here I am, part of the target audience, and I'm fine with them using the word. Also now I'll know what "complication" means when someone who IS a mechanical watch aficionado tosses out that word.
 
Though not announced based on the fact that Sports model has an Ion Glass screen vs Sapphire and is the less flashy brushed aluminum over chromed steel or whatever is on the other models; it's a fair assumption. I mean if you see a brown pile, it looks like crap, smells like crap are you really going to taste it to make sure it's crap?

And why are you assuming that the aluminum material is a "pile of crap" compared to the POLISHED stainless steel (not chrome). The alloy used in the Sport Watch is a 7000 series aluminum alloy. A VERY high quality and very expensive aluminum. iPhones use a 6000 series alloy, which is also high quality, but the 7000 is even moreso. The most common aluminum alloy is 5052, so in both cases Apple picks an even higher priced alloy than the norm. The benefit of 7000 series aluminum over 316 Stainless Steel is weight. 7000 aluminum has some of the best strength/weight ratio. Which is obviously a beneficial choice for a sportswatch. The Ion-X glass as well is also lighter than sapphire. These aren't simply cost-cutting decisions, but clearly picked for the watches intended use case, which is a sportswatch where weight is a priority.

That being said, 316L Stainless Steel and Sapphire are both obviously more expensive. But not by much. I wouldn't be surprised to see the standard Apple Watch close in price. I'm guessing $400-$500 for the Apple Watch.
 
Yes, "complications" is the correct word to use and shows that Apple is being serious in the field of horology. But, c'mon they're going to be ridiculed in the media, and you know it, and don't give me any "who cares what people think?".

If they do change it to something more average-customer-friendly, I look forward to all the backpedaling here. I also am fully prepared to eat my own words if no one outside the RDF has a problem with "complications."

Actually it shows apple is trying to be smug and arrogant, we are talking about a digital iPhone accessory here.... One that gets its time corrections via the iPhone, which in turn gets it using an Internet connection.

Why should they not be ridiculed by the media if they are going to pretend they suddenly are experts in the field of horology? Sure introduce a digital
Watch not don't pretend you know everything about watches cause you read a few books.

Google the word complications, the answer is right there! You actually have to dig further to realise the word is used in horology.

Apple needs to stop pretending they invented/are an expert on everything. It's a freakin computer they have put together.

Ever worked with colleagues who pretended to know everything, they read some wiki posts and suddenly introduce words into thier vocab for a time being as if they knew everything about a subject. Apple + complications. Using big words does not make your products with made in China suddenly equal to made In Swiss. And for anyone who is really into horology and watches, thier mind wil be made up with "made in China"
 
Will wait for 2nd or even 3rd gen before consider buying. Apple products haven't been exactly great 1st gen
 
Actually it shows apple is trying to be smug and arrogant, we are talking about a digital iPhone accessory here.... One that gets its time corrections via the iPhone, which in turn gets it using an Internet connection.

Some watches get their time from satellites. Are they therefore not watches? I don't think Apple are trying to be smug (no more than normal anyway). They are just trying to align the :apple:watch brand with the high end watch market in peoples minds. In terms of use, it doesn't matter really. But it will have a big impact on the :apple:watches market acceptance. At the moment, smart watches have a geeky, rather sad image. Apple is trying to realign that. If they succeed, this will be to the benefit of all smart watch manufacturers, as the market will explode.



Why should they not be ridiculed by the media if they are going to pretend they suddenly are experts in the field of horology? Sure introduce a digital Watch not don't pretend you know everything about watches cause you read a few books. .

They've spent years designing this thing. While they have no track record in the watch industry, can you hardly expect their marketing blurb, to say that? They're blowing their own trumpet, thats what companies do. And providing they deliver a product that people want (still to be proven), whats wrong with that?



Google the word complications, the answer is right there! You actually have to dig further to realise the word is used in horology.

Exacty and in doing so Apple have achieved their goal! People will look up the word (or have it explained to them), see its link to the watch industry and a connection will be made in their mind between it and the :apple:watch. Not for everyone sure, but it's a start of breaking the "smart watch" image mould.

Apple needs to stop pretending they invented/are an expert on everything. It's a freakin computer they have put together.

It's marketing. Who cares? As long as they deliver a quality product I'm happy.

Ever worked with colleagues who pretended to know everything, they read some wiki posts and suddenly introduce words into thier vocab for a time being as if they knew everything about a subject. Apple + complications. Using big words does not make your products with made in China suddenly equal to made In Swiss. And for anyone who is really into horology and watches, thier mind wil be made up with "made in China"

Time will tell. You might be right, or you might be very, very wrong. If this thing sells they will have busted open a new product class. Yes, I know it existed before, but quite frankly it was small niche and pretty much a joke (smart watches NOT Swiss Watches). To be fair to Apple, they've spent quite a while developing this product and a lot of that time seems to have been spent studying the existing watch industry and consumers expectations. I've no problem with Apple trying to become apart of that club.

EDIT. Having thought about it a bit more, I don't think Apple really intend to threaten or replace the exisitng high end watch makers. I suspect this marketiing strategy was all about directing the discussion towards a comparison between the apple watch vs. high end watches as opposed to the apple watch vs other smart watches. By cleverly shifting the arugment, they have managed to at least create a tenuous link between their product and the swiss ones. In the end we can all buy a watch that tells the time for about $2. We choose to spend more. A lot of those spending choices are about image. Apple knows this and so do all the high end watch manufacturers. They're playing the same game. This battle is about the "old boys club" vs " the young upstart". If you want to be brutally honest, both parties are full of BS.
 
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I really wonder how it affects battery life if you turn off all that crap and use it as, you know, a watch. So no push notifications, no health tracking etc.
 
Nevertheless writing code is a relatively common skill that can be learned by a big percentage of the population if they so desire, whereas the skills needed to say make a watch that chimes the hours and minutes, with springs of secret alloy metals and little hammers that sound sweet, is more like an artisan craft that is passed on through the generations like the formula for the glue used in a Chippendale chair, or the skill required to select the sternpost for the mightiest of the 18the century Oak ships.

But my point was only that Jonny Ive made a *big deal* about showing respect for the tradition and I think he's showing disrespect. It's not so much that they want to call an image of a 'complication' a 'complication' that's fine, but let's not big ourselves up as well Jonny.

I disagree.

I mean, sure, you can teach coding to many. But as with any skill only a small percentage will grasp some of the more highly complex nuance.

When you look at the video games of today such as Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto, it takes hundreds of people a couple of years to make one release. The math and physics involved in rendering a 3D environment as they can these days, not to mention the graphical talents of the artist is beyond the ability of one person.

Just like these days there are very few people left on the planet who could build a watch from scratch (especially one with advanced complications), there are maybe only a handful of people on the planet who could produce something to the standards of a modern high end video game by themselves, even if they had years to do so.

I would argue that even if you ignore some of the advanced engineering of the Apple Watch, just the code to make it work would take one talented programmer years to produce.

To my mind though Apple have also done something I've never seen before in any high end watch. Just look at how they have designed multiple bracelets that can slide on and off the watch with the press of a button.

Their stainless bracelet design also has links that can be removed with the press of a button, a design by the way that I believe they said takes 9 hours to build with over 100 parts.

With a well over 100 years of watch design, I've never seen any of the major players produce a design that elegant and user friendly. It's really pretty clever making their watch that customizable.

Bottom line here is that when you understand as I do the complexity of programming, with the incredible engineering I see in the demo videos, I believe that this watch has taken dozens of highly talented people more than three years to develop. They have every right to use terms like 'complications' without being disrespectful.

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Will wait for 2nd or even 3rd gen before consider buying. Apple products haven't been exactly great 1st gen

That simply isn't true.

If the iPhone had sucked, how would it have even made a dent in the market?

If the iPad had sucked, would tablets even exist today?

How about the MacBook Air? Did it not pretty much invent the ultra light laptop concept?

Obviously every new generation of product is likely to learn from the previous, but based on that logic, you'd never by anything. Just look at TVs as they evolved from plasma to LCD to LED to oLED and now they are talking quantum dot 4K UHD. If you seriously waited for the best, you'd never ever buy a TV.

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No electronic watch will ever replace high-end timepieces...

My advice is to buy this if you want one. I do, and I will. But I'm under no false illusions that I'm going to make money later selling it. It is a nice piece of tech, not an investment.

I don't think that Apple is trying to replace the high end watch here.

First off, it kind of depends on your opinion as to what constitutes high end. Some watch snobs would likely argue that nothing below $10K constitutes high end.

Even if you are talking about decent, most decent watches are easily going to be more than $3K.

Here Apple have produced a product that at least from the evidence we have so far is pretty impressive, and starts at just $349.

I don't believe any high end Swiss watchmaker has ever put out a product at that price point (or equivalent adjusted for inflation).

So let's say I decide to buy a stainless Apple Watch for $600 or whatever price point they pick. I am never going to be deluding myself that it will one day be a family heirloom that I will pridefully gift to my grandson upon his graduation.

Nor would I imagine that three years from now when the Apple Watch 3.0 hits the market, that I'll be able to profit by selling my old watch on eBay.

But I'm okay with that. I don't imagine that there is any new watch I could purchase today for $349, that would be worth much five years from now.
 
You can have your 'Complications' checked at the 'Genius Bar'....


Seriously. It sounds like a parody... of Microsoft jargon trying to be too cute and cool by half.

For a company that prides its products as being easy to use I now maybe think I should sell my Apple stock and buy shares in "face palm meme." Hard to believe the upper execs approved that word for the world to associate with the first (post Jobs) Tim Cook product. The late night shows will have some easy fodder there if Apple keeps it.
 
Actually it shows apple is trying to be smug and arrogant...

This surprises you? :D

Joking aside, Apple really have put a lot into this. As I review the materials Apple have put out, I've been impressed by the efforts they have gone to.

They really did spend a lot of time talking with horologists, they have done their homework big time. I see many concepts in the Apple Watch that are definitely paying homage to watch making techniques honed over a couple of hundred years.

I don't really accept that because they are not Swiss, they are not allowed to use certain terms.

Also I have to take issue with your disparaging comments about things made in China. Sure, they do make a lot of cheap junk in China, but take a look at the iPhone 6. The precision engineering required to put that together in the quantities they do is no small feat.

I think that China is proving they can manufacture insane quantities of products with astonishing consistency. No cell phone I've ever owned compares to the quality of my iPhone 6. It's not really fair to disparage what Apple has accomplished.

Although we should probably also acknowledge the human cost too. Perhaps Apple could have taken a bit more time to improve upon working conditions too.
 
I guess that would be me. I don't care about expensive heirloom watches (though I did inherit a gold railway watch from my father).
The word "complications" just seemed strange to me when I first read it. Then I read an explanation of what it means in watch jargon, and I though it was pretty cool.

So the "complications" on an Apple Watch are just digital representations of watch complications. I still think they're pretty cool. They'll look fine next to the digital representations of the hour, minute, and sweep second hand.

So here I am, part of the target audience, and I'm fine with them using the word. Also now I'll know what "complication" means when someone who IS a mechanical watch aficionado tosses out that word.

If there ever was a need to upvote a post…

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Actually it shows apple is trying to be smug and arrogant, we are talking about a digital iPhone accessory here.... One that gets its time corrections via the iPhone, which in turn gets it using an Internet connection.

Why should they not be ridiculed by the media if they are going to pretend they suddenly are experts in the field of horology? Sure introduce a digital
Watch not don't pretend you know everything about watches cause you read a few books.

Google the word complications, the answer is right there! You actually have to dig further to realise the word is used in horology.

Apple needs to stop pretending they invented/are an expert on everything. It's a freakin computer they have put together.

Ever worked with colleagues who pretended to know everything, they read some wiki posts and suddenly introduce words into thier vocab for a time being as if they knew everything about a subject. Apple + complications. Using big words does not make your products with made in China suddenly equal to made In Swiss. And for anyone who is really into horology and watches, thier mind wil be made up with "made in China"

You could not have written a better explanation for why you are not Apple's target audience. Bravo.
 
if anyone actually buys this watch, are they going to be stupid enough to go running with it? As soon as a few people get bopped from behind in Central Park and their 700 buck watch jacked, that will be the end of that tune.

Trust me, if you wander through Central Park, you're going to see plenty of people wearing watches that cost more than $5K.

People pay insane amounts of money on watches. I fly a lot for my job and see plenty of high end watches people wear casually.

In fact I was recently in London and as I left, the airport had a watch store selling watches that cost north of $60,000 and dozens that were well over $5K. And one has to assume that there are literally people out there waiting to catch a plane who have the money to just spend like a normal person buying a magazine.

I don't think anyone in New York is going to faint if they see someone wearing a $700 watch.
 
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