Jose Nation
macrumors newbie
Ahh yes. Well, making it faster is a given, I guess.
Apple Watch Loses Market Share as Android Wear Grows in Popularity
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A rectangular screen for optimally displaying data on a "smartwatch" is a pretty crazy concept, right? How's that round-screened laptop of yours working for you?
jmpage2
macrumors 68040
Samsung and Motorola have proven that round can work for a data display device that is worn on the wrist. Pebble also has launched a round version of their Pebble Time product. It's only a matter of time (pun intended) before Apple does something similar.
Round watch faces are classic and I don't need efficient display of large amounts of data to check the time or see a notification alert on my wrist.
A rectangular watch may not be your cup of tea, which is what I'm reading, however that doesn't automatically make it a flawed design. Not to mention that the Apple Watch is about 12x more successful than all the products you used as your example of why the AW is not successful.
kdarling
macrumors P6
Plus Huawei, LG, and Tag Heuer.
As anyone who's had both shapes knows, rectangular and circular both work just fine for a wrist device.
Heck, a lot of the Apple Watch stock apps are circular because of the Digital Crown.
It's really more of a personal choice kind of thing.
Yeah, it feels the same as when some people dissed smaller tablet screens, and then larger phone screens. You'd think that people would eventually learn not to claim that Apple chose the "right" shape or size or whatever the first time around.
ESPECIALLY on something claimed to be a fashion piece, where people like choice. And calls itself "Watch", which is an personal device where round has traditionally outsold rectangular by about eight or nine to one.
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jmpage2
macrumors 68040
The article indicates that their share is slipping... a lot. I don't know whether Apple qualifies the watch as a successful product line or not, but I know that if they want to sell a LOT more watches to people like me they will;
1. Offer round watches.
2. Offer 3rd party band support.
3. Make the watch faster, a lot faster!
4. Find some way to at least have the watch always displaying the time. I frequently glance down at my wrist without bringing it up to my face to check the time, and in this use case, the Apple watch is a fail.
brinary001
Suspended
I will say that when Samsung launched their first Gear a few years ago, I literally laughed out loud. It was hideous, bulky, and I couldn't see a need for it. Then other companies got into it such as LG and Motorola, and I thought, "Okay this is better, but they're still nothing special." Then Apple launched their watch and it finally seemed as though a company got the closest of anyone to nailing the wearable category.
Even still, I didn't feel like I needed a bloody computer on my wrist. But after winning one in an auction on eBay for just stupid cheap (like half the price of a brand new 42mm Sport) I figured I'd try it. Well, it's been 7 or 8 months now and I've worn it everyday without skipping a beat. It really is quite something to feel your notifications, control your music from your wrist, and see your heartbeat in real-time.
I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else to buy an Apple Watch; I couldn't care less. But understand that I used to feel the same way about wearables, just as most people weren't warm to the idea of this thing called a cellular phone back in the 80's..
maxsix
Suspended
It's not about being the same regarding the details.
In the world of watches, one in which the original "wristwatch" was round, it was Cartier that made the rectangular shape popular via its "Tank Watch".
Thus going forward, any rectangular watch is loosely referred to as a Tank Style watch.
IJ Reilly
macrumors P6
Yes, this. Apple Watch exhibits the same Jony Ive industrial design aesthetic that comes screaming through in every Apple product turned out of his shop, meaning every Apple product. Call it minimalist, or form follows function, or something else, it's a deliberate and distinct approach that eschews the unneeded. Oddly this approach does not seem to come into criticism when it turns up in an iPhone, iPad or iMac. In fact for the most part it is not only accepted but appreciated by customers and copied by competitors.
The criticism of the watch design is a bit curious, but it seems to stem from an expectation among many that watches are decorative first and functional second. Clearly Ive designed the thing to reverse the order. Then again, due to the huge variety of bands available and the easy means of changing them, Apple Watch is easily the most aesthetically flexible product Apple has sold in memory. And yet... many who seem to be perfectly happy choosing between three colors of iPhone (or even one or two before recently) feel constrained to the point of offense by the very shape of the watch. It is a bit puzzling.
kdarling
macrumors P6
Ah. I was confused by your saying that, "With the 'Tank Watch' style Apple copied a design dating back to 1917."
Now I see that you simply meant it was rectangular.
Because, not only does the Apple Watch _not_ look like the Tank (which had heavy vertical bars going up the sides to attach the bands to)...
... but Cartier had already made a famous rectangular men's watch before the Tank, with his just as well known 1904 Santos watch.
Prior to that, lady's wristwatches had often been rectangular because they were set in bangles. And of course, rectangular/square clock faces had been around much longer on the faces of buildings.
--
My point was, I don't think any of those were inspiration for the Apple Watch's basic shape. Not one bit.
A casual observer could say it was just like every previous smartwatch that had been limited by the availability of only rectangular displays.
But I'm saying that it's clear that Ive was simply re-using the tried and true rounded rectangular shiny shape that had worked for Apple in previous products.
Yet the Apple Watch was promoted as a fashion item.
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IJ Reilly
macrumors P6
First and foremost, you think? Should they have offered it diamond-encrusted?
kdarling
macrumors P6
Hey, if someone likes the way it currently looks, that's fine. But people don't have a choice from Apple right now.
This is the same situation we had with 4" iPhones. Many people claimed it was the right size. Until they had a choice.
I'd bet that if Apple offered more elaborate / round cases as an option, those would sell really well. Heck, if priced the same, they'd certainly sell more than the current design, don't you think? Be honest.
I have the same watch, i get alot of compliments on how it looks like a proper watch unlike the Apple Watch. Great device!
[doublepost=1461970504][/doublepost]
Nailed it! Its why i get so many positive comments about my LG Urbane, it looks like a proper stylish watch, not like a Casio wrist calculator.
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Yes, absolutely. I was mostly pointing out that market share of devices means their ecosystem grows even more (apps, app development, music, etc).
I think what people begrudge about it is that Apple takes massive advantage of their customer loyalty. It's great they want to make money, but at some point it becomes insulting -- especially when you're already so committed to their ecosystem.
I go swimming with mine
IJ Reilly
macrumors P6
Now I have to be honest? That will be a tough one.
The pretty obvious answer is the OS and every app would have to be designed to accomodate two, radically different form factors. Apple has always emphasized consistent and stable platforms, especially when they were new. Even adding screen resolution to existing form factors was done carefully to create minimal disruption. How has this approach been demonstrated to be wrong in the past?
As for choice, this is irony alert time. The watch offers more versions than any product Apple has ever made, by orders of magnitude, and right from the start... so be honest yourself now, isn't that the actual case? As for "elaborate," since when does Apple do gewgaws and frufru? Since when do they try to satisfy every taste? As in, not and never. So how is this an even slightly realistic expectation for the watch?
Look, the problem here is that Apple made one bad decision in marketing this product, and that was to call it a watch. Instead of breaking out a new category of wearable tech, Apple decided to relate it to ancient tech that a lot of people have fixed preexisting ideas about how it should work and look. This is the source of the complaints of why it isn't round, and how come it isn't more of a fashionista accessory than it is. I argued that this was going to be a problem from even before the thing came out, and that prediction is turning out to be pretty accurate. Having owned one for a year now I can get my head around the idea that it isn't really a watch, but in general, the name is turning out to be a marketing burden for the product that Apple could have easily avoided.
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GeminiPete
macrumors newbie
Oddly enough, our IT department is very different, or at least the office I'm in where out of 6 people we have 1 Pebble (Apple Watch on order he says), 1 Samsung Gear S, while me and another guy have Android Wear (he has the 1st Moto 360 and I have an LG Urbane but am lusting for the Huawei Watch). The other two don't have smart watches - the sole lady doesn't seem interested (she finds the all big and ugly, even the ones supposedly designed with women in mind) while the guy with a new baby finds them overpriced for what they do.
As for the "screen size not allowing useful interaction"- I have to strongly disagree with such a blanket statement as it absolutely depends on what you are doing. Media consumption (and the controls for it) is absolutely fine for playing music while, for example, working out but I agree that watching more than a YouTube video would be painful (and since And Wear devices only recently included speakers, my older one requires BT headphones, But that's even preferable for playing music in public, and the controls are right there on your wrist and much quicker/easier than pulling out your phone, turning it on, swiping in, launching player if not the active app - in other words, the appropriateness of the watch is very much a function of the task itself and how well the watch IU is designed. For swiping thru a music list and simple vol up/down, FWd/Rev tracks the watch screen couldn't be easier or more easily accessible! (AndWear allows 4Gb of locally stored music, AppleWatch is 2GB, but the watches can also act as remote controllers for a much larger selection on your phone/SD card, again it depends on if you want/have your Phone with you and what you are doing as some things won't even work w/o the phone. Music playing,thankfully, works incredibly on your wrist whether from music tracks stored locally on the watch or remotely playing from your phone in your pocket or across the room if your cleaning your apartment, mowing the lawn, working out, etc.
Certainly it's nice at the gym to leave my phone in my locker and just use my Watch and BT headset to play locally stored mp3s and have the app Tracker detect my workouts (cleverly uses the accel. And other sensors to learn your workouts by movement - tho legs gave to be input manually,but the UI is do well designed to the task that it's just a couple swipes and taps for even the times a completely manual entry for weights, reps, etc and s required! So again, it is much easier than pulling out my phone to type them in each set. The Watch UI for these tasks is sublime and a big time saver, and dorky pocket bulge saver!
So while I agree watches in no way are great for every task, they do have a subset of functions where they are very useful, and sometimes even preferable as the couple above show. So don't write them completely off as I initially did. They are a wonderful option to have (option - not necessity) and do make things better, faster and/or easier in certain situations, depending on the watch and your chosen platform. Still great to see notifications w/o pulling out a phone every time, and can even read thru a bunch off emails between meetings (sometimes during!). Replying is still a nightmare, and web browsing is all but useless. But they get better with every software update and every hardware iteration, and the geek in me absolutely loves the gadget aspect, while the worker, exerciser, lazy after work lounger loves the specific instances where they truly improve on a "phone only" experience.
Not discounting your own opinion of course, merely stating my own experiences so readers know there are more varied situations out there!
Keirasplace
macrumors 601
- They're not offering a round watch this year (and probably not next year). Count on that.
- It will be faster, that's a given probably a downclocked A9
(giving it a Speed a bit faster than a 5s but not quite a Iphone 6).
(Right now, the speed is slightly slower than a 4s).
- Right... Apple watch is a "fail", does it fail by having the best battery life per volume by far? (even if some complain its still too big!!). There are certain compromises to everything. Always display times means less battery; that's it.
As for all the comments in this thread.
- They sold about 14M in 10 months, more than any other device Apple has ever launched despite not having full distribution until October.
- Iphone market shares are 15-18% and main reason for that is PRICE,
same reason as for this watch, all the other blah blah about shape is pure doom narrative building.
There are new smart watches coming every second from 10 different vendors that are less expensive, with varying release schedule that means there are new products always coming in. Again comparing release schedule of one company vs dozens. This product is close to its next release cycle, that spells declining market share for every single products from every single company EVER.
Apple had 0% market share a year a ago, so the whole god damn BS narrative about market share in a year one product is utter tripe.
Apple always will gain a huge market share as they create/expand the market and then as the market becomes viable, people see its usefulness, other entrants flood the market with cheaper downmarket products.
Result lower market share for Apple while capturing almost all the profits.
PS: I want someone to actually prove that Apple would have more sales, instead of huge ass software dev and support problem, if they went round, or added a round one. Whining in this forum certainly doesn't count as people here whine about EVERYTHING. Otherwise its pure conjecture and weakly supported opinion.
AppleScruff1
macrumors G4
Oh the irony.
GeminiPete
macrumors newbie
I too have the LG Urbane and have gotten compliments on it, in the elevator just yesterday was the latest! They are always amazed by it, but when they often ask "Oh is it an Apple Watch?" when I begin showing them what all it can do, that I can talk to it to do things, etc - it shows that public awareness that Android Watches even exist is almost nil outside of gadget lover sectors!
hiddenmarkov
macrumors 6502a
I can see that angle but at some point you have to give something back. I work with high end gear that throws some bones. While cisco for example would love for your to run Cisco across the board and turn on all their proprietary stuff, they also realize you may run non cisco stuff and work with that as well. Just makes support cases need the extra step to make sure you can say for sure its their stuff and not that other vendors stuff.
Software wise lots of applications I use allow those freedoms as well. They realize they don't have the staff to make all happy. I want this, he wants that, she wants that other thing. Enter a nice flexible setup.
Like with text editors meant for programmers. Most have the "go to" languages in the list for syntax highlighting at least if not more grandiose stuff. But...the guidance and openness is there for motivated users to make those same files, place get them into the app and voila....that text editor supports languages the devs never intended to and could not have the time to support.
For software like this this is how they get sales. I actually look for this. Does it allow the community of users to play with the setup a little. Yes it does they say, well, then shut up and take my money lol.
Case of 3rd party watch faces...this could work well for them. Piece of those .99 sales....could be some money as people pull down a few of them.
Or if they are on more your mindset that has the caveat of you have to for lack of better phrasing put out a little. Okay you are our 1 source...well then source something. When software does this to me, not put out that is, that is when -1's start to pile up. Want to be the alpha and the omega of my experience...you have to show why. lack of support not the way to do that.
Sadly this is becoming an apple trademark. We are going to hold out on you but when you get it you will love it. Problem, the wait not as worth it as apple though it could be an increasing trend for a growing number of people. Not asking them to hit homeruns every time but when the longer you make that wait, the more unforgiving striking out becomes is the issue.
SvP
macrumors 6502
If you are right, they would be required and could even be forced to do that. It's illegal to act against shareholder interests.
But shareholder interest doesn't care about market share. It cares for profit.
kdarling
macrumors P6
I do agree that Apple tends to start simple and work their way up to more complicated screens. Starting square is the same thing that Android Wear did.
I disagree that going round would be a problem, because of the proven fact that Android Wear developers were able so quickly to adapt apps and clock faces to work on both square and round. On such a small screen, the difference really isn't big, since important information should be front and center anyway. Moreover, Apple Watch programmers already have to deal with display line size differences between the 42 and 38 models.
I also agree with you that Apple calling it the "Watch" was a cool idea to try to grab a common name (like MS Windows did), but backfired perhaps in expectations. Someone else on the net noted that the Apple Watch was more like a CE device on a wrist with some watch functionality, whereas Android Wear was more like a watch on your wrist with some CE functionality.
More like someone needs to prove that it wouldn't have more sales, and would have a software problem, because neither negative happened with similar situations.
We already know from Android Wear's experience, where round screens were introduced before AW had official support, that adapting apps is not a big problem for developers. Unless you think Apple or its developers are less capable?
Round also has little to no UX impact to the user in real life, certainly not any more than the current different Apple Watch display sizes.
As for sales, Moto and LG sales jumped into second place of Android sales (behind Samsung, who had a head start) in their few months after they brought out round models. Moreover, round shapes make up 80% of regular watch sales in the real world.
At the same time, it's understandable that you and Laurim might have a different opinion than the males here. Reportedly more women's watch sales than men's are of rectangular shape.
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IJ Reilly
macrumors P6
Apple isn't Google, and I am personally thankful for that. The world does not really need another Microsoft or Google trying to please everyone and in the end pleasing almost no one.
Whether it is universally appreciated or not, Apple doesn't build hardware or software, they build tech products, the combination of both. What Steve liked to call "the entire widget." This is where they see their own edge over Google and Microsoft, and again, it is difficult to argue that they are completely wrong. In fact it's difficult to argue that they are wrong at all, given how far they've taken that approach. It's only made them the largest corporation in the history of the world. Perhaps they should have aimed higher?
In any case, the arbitrary preference some have for round things strapped on their wrists certainly does nothing to prove it. If you are Apple (and Jony Ive) you design your products in a way that you believe best suits their function, not to address some arbitrary aesthetic goal. If everybody doesn't love it, fine. Not everybody was supposed to love it.
Consequently, I see Ive refining his concept for Apple Watch in future releases, but not radically changing the form factor. He will be totally deaf to the "a watch must be round" crowd, as well he should be. Apple's agreed marketing blunder notwithstanding.