Apple Will Delay Bringing New Features to Users in the EU

[surferfb]

It will never cease to amaze me how a clientele that insists they buy Apple products because they value privacy -- and I assume by extension the ability to have a say in how their personal data is collected, used, shared and whatnot -- continues to take such offence with the fact that that websites have to get their consent for collecting data that isn't necessary to run the provided service.

Because it makes my web browsing experience demonstrably worse for almost no benefit. I'm not a fan of targeted advertising, but all the plague of popups does it make using the web less enjoyable. And I contend it doesn't meaningfully prevent tracking from occurring. Most people just hit "accept all" as fast as they can; so the EU has added a ton of lost productivity for almost no actual benefit. (conservatively, we collectively lose over 11,000 years of productivity every day clicking accept/reject on cookie banners!)

I fully admit this is a nerdy, power-user thing, but ad blockers exist. Pi hole exists. Privacy focused browsers exist. For users who care about not being tracked, there are better options than having almost every single website on planet earth say "Hey, do you know cookies exist and we use them for a variety of reasons."

Companies could of course have tried to find a technical solution to the problem, for example by setting specific permissions at browser level and by websites obeying those settings.

Would that have been a better solution? Probably yes. Would there have been similar complaints about how it's unacceptable that someone regulates how industry can design their products? Probably also yes.

It's been a massive annoyance for almost a decade now. The EU has had plenty of time to either implement it at the browser level, as you suggest. But they haven't. So either they don't realize it's a problem or don't care.

The regulators clearly don't understand anything about good user experience, given this, mandatory browser selection screens, inability to properly warn users about third-party offering, etc.

I don't believe for a second that the big companies aren't doing whatever they can to still track all of us however they can, but I'd rather have a consent pop up before I access a webpage to throw a spanner into their operations and big fines to at least swing a bit of a stick rather than moan about how it's so inconvenient.

I will never understand why the pop up is the issue and not the unrestricted and overbearing tracking -- particularly among privacy-conscious Apple users.

I'm not arguing the intent was bad, I'm arguing the implementation was, and the "cure" is worse than the disease, particularly when it primarily leads to everyone just hitting "accept all" as fast as possible.

 

[turbineseaplane]

as an Apple user in the eu this stuff makes me sad. EU probably has good intentions but end up shooting their own citizens in the foot.

Blame Apple, not the EU.

Apple are somehow able to do nearly anything it takes to comply (and on reasonable timelines) in China.

Apple are choosing to behave this way.

 

[dumastudetto]

Blame Apple, not the EU.

Apple are somehow able to do nearly anything it takes to comply (and on reasonable timelines) in China.

Apple are choosing to behave this way.

Apple will always do whats best for their customers.

 

[I7guy]

Blame Apple, not the EU.

Apple are somehow able to do nearly anything it takes to comply (and on reasonable timelines) in China.

Apple are choosing to behave this way.

Blame the EU. They have over-regulated Apple with a term called gatekeeper because they wouldn’t be able to find Apple “guilty” of monopoly under existing law.

The eu keeps waffling and moving the goalposts making it difficult for Apple to comply.

 

[Naraxus]

This is hysterical and more than deserved. EU wants to selectively target successful US companies? Then don't come whining when you don't get features the rest of the world gets

 

[votdfak]

I disagree, would quit EU like not even right now but five minutes ago.

Eu is a mess for countries, just more politician to feed and strange regulation wich do no benefit.

100% would like to quit asap.

On topic, Apple acts like they had feature parity before….. wich they never did, there are plenty examples of things that rolled out in US that came later or didn’t even came at all in other countries…

No, you're wrong. It's much better to have EU and freedom of movement and peace in general. We all know what alternative is, opposite of peace.

 

[tennisproha]

This is sort of an edged sword. On the one hand, I appreciate the EU regulations in favor of consumer rights and privacy. On the other, it really feels like the EU is singling out Apple. Of all companies, Apple really makes the most effort to protect customer privacy and security so it feels a bit disingenuous to be targeting them and not companies that openly exploit customer data like Google or Chinese companies.

 

[one more]

Apple doesn't want to give Google and Meta access to this feature because they would use it to violate Apple customers' privacy. If Apple has it, Google, Meta, and whoever else wants it get access too, per the infinite wisdom of the DMA.

And what do you think will happen if Apple continue delaying or withholding the features, thus falling behind Google Maps, Waze, HERE and other competitors?

All of these third party apps are readily available on iOS, so Apple Maps might just start losing the user base. Less users = less live data, less live data = less accuracy, so this could draw even more people away.

It is not good neither for Apple, nor for users who happen to like and use Apple Maps, like myself.

 

[I7guy]

And what do you think will happen if Apple continue delaying or withholding the features, thus falling behind Google Maps, Waze, HERE and other competitors?

All of these third party apps are readily available on iOS, so Apple Maps might just start losing the user base. Less users = less live data, less live data = less accuracy, so this could draw even more people away.

It is not good neither for Apple, nor for users who happen to like and use Apple Maps, like myself.

Nothing. Apples fan base is very strong, much to the chagrin of many. This is all the EUs doing.

 

[mansplains]

According to the numerous comments I’ve read here on MR, no one uses Apple Maps in Europe, so they won’t be missing out anyway 🤷‍♂️

 

[Naraxus]

Translation, "We need to ensure we can maintain our monopoly."

Please inform the class what monopoly Apple has.

 

[surferfb]

And what do you think will happen if Apple continue delaying or withholding the features, thus falling behind Google Maps, Waze, HERE and other competitors?

All of these third party apps are readily available on iOS, so Apple Maps might just start losing the user base. Less users = less live data, less live data = less accuracy, so this could draw even more people away.

It is not good neither for Apple, nor for users who happen to like and use Apple Maps, like myself.

You think Apple doesn't realize this? I'm sure they've done the cost benefit analysis any number of ways.

Again, I don’t think the EU should be mandating how Apple’s hardware and software works. I think it's a ridiculous overreach that tramples all over consumer choice and the free market. But the EU is mandating it, and so Apple has two options: release these features in the EU and give access to the features to competitors, or don't release them in the EU and accept that their products are less attractive to EU consumers.

If Apple decides "we'd rather not offer this feature than offer it to our competitors" that's their right to decide, whether that's because of security/privacy (my suspicion) or to give the EU the middle finger (a lot of people in this thread's suspicion). I'd argue the entire DMA is a bunch of people demanding to have their cake (open ecosystem) and eat it too (use iOS), so I'm not surprised they get angry when Apple "takes their ball and goes home" rather than give stuff to their competitors for free. They think they're entitled to have Apple run how they want it run, so they get unreasonably angry when Apple says "sorry, no."

I'd argue it's another example of the EU not thinking through the consequences of their regulations.

 

[robvalentine]

Please inform the class what monopoly Apple has.

I suggest you do some research on why the EU is clamping down on Apple, and maybe why mainly Apple. Perhaps I should have said gatekeeping instead of monopoly, but the gist of my point remains.

 

[robvalentine]

Nothing. Apples fan base is very strong, much to the chagrin of many. This is all the EUs doing.

Outside of MR, and other apple based sites, People I know are becoming less Apple obsessed, and seeing what else is out there. UK based for reference.

 

[Ctrlos]

IEu is a mess for countries, just more politician to feed and strange regulation wich do no benefit.

Like the clean water act that made the coasts a nice place to actually bathe?

Like the EHCR which protects citizens from being thrown into a van by their government never to be seen again? (See: beyond it's eastern borders and the other side of the Atlantic)

Like the free movement policy that allows someone from one country to just move to another to find work, study or just travel with zero friction?

Like a combined international voice that would otherwise get easily silenced by otherwise unaccountable tech companies? (See thread)

Like the 80 years of peace it has overseen, the likes of which Europe had never previously ever enjoyed?

Like the frictionless trade that companies within it's borders enjoy?

If you want to see what life outside the EU looks like take a glance across the English channel where the UK now enjoys such 'freedoms' as a 30% drop in exports, sewage polluting it's rivers and beaches, farmers suffering from a lack of common subsidies, queuing at the airport for ages after a flight, having to pay for roaming data charges on holiday and a potential chancer government that wants to strike the EHCR so it can bundle it's citizens in vans without fear of legal reprisal.

 

[Ctrlos]

Apple will always do whats best for their customers.

You mean shareholders. Apple doesn't give two figs about what you or I think or do. Just that we keep the money rolling in.

 

[Robin Bonathan]

Screw EU, they should not be involved in this.

 

[I7guy]

Outside of MR, and other apple based sites, People I know are becoming less Apple obsessed, and seeing what else is out there. UK based for reference.

In my corner of the world Apple is extremely popular. Many people have the trifecta of Apple products: MacBooks, iPhone, iPad, watch and AirPods. Teens in the US are obsessed with iPhones. I gather it’s a geographical thing. But people buy what they think is best for them.

 

[Naraxus]

I suggest you do some research on why the EU is clamping down on Apple, and maybe why mainly Apple. Perhaps I should have said gatekeeping instead of monopoly, but the gist of my point remains.

The "gist" of your point does not remain. Apple is not and has no monopoly. The EU isn't "clamping down" on Apple so much as they're coming up with intentionally vague reglations all the while completely ignoring actual monopolies like Spotify.

 

[Erwin-Br]

Nothing. Apples fan base is very strong, much to the chagrin of many. This is all the EUs doing.

The iPhone holds less than 25% market share in the EU. We’re already used to neutered services, like Apple Maps which is still at the level of what it was in the US 10 years ago. Siri is a mess. They’re late on AI… In the meantime, Chinese manufacturers are ramping up. Apple will only have itself to blame.

 

[Ctrlos]

I suggest you do some research on why the EU is clamping down on Apple, and maybe why mainly Apple. Perhaps I should have said gatekeeping instead of monopoly, but the gist of my point remains.

Exactly. It's not a monopoly, it's abuse of power. They deliberately withhold platform features to bork competition and strengthen their own position. People say that European companies cannot innovate but how can they when core APIs are withheld from their use?

The ADF will come out and say that it's Apple's platform and that they can do what they like. But when it's at the detriment of consumer choice it's a big problem.

"I only use Apple apps anyway." is an indictment of Apple's behaviour, not a piece of praise on their part. Apple's apps are not better because they are the most innovative on a level playing field; it's because they hinder the competition.

Imagine if the Philly Eagles could just draft the top 30 players all to themselves or Real Madrid ran UEFA and seeded themselves right into the Champions League final at the start of the season. How do you compete with that much power?

Saying those companies should build their own platform shows a willfull ignorance of the way the Apple/Google duopoly even works. If these companies could even compete at a device/OS level then they would. But when a company the size of Microsoft can't even make it work because Google purposefully doesn't build any native apps, what chance does a random startup in Prague have?!

People will quote the games industry but show an ignorance as to how that market works. Nintendo might make the best games on their own platforms but they only do so because they are the best company. No APIs or dev tools are withheld from 3rd parties. If they were nobody would build any games for the Switch. But they might for PlayStation. Or Xbox. Or SteamOS. Or PC. Or mobile. Or the flipping Playdate because in that market a small company can release a piece of hardware and succeed.

Yes, Google is an option. But Google are just as bad as Apple whom they are in cahoots with anyway to the tune of $20bn a year. Remember the constant digs Steve Jobs used to aim at Windows? You'll never see that from Craig Federighi about Android for a reason.

The EU wants a level playing field so other companies can compete. And as it's impossible to build an entire hardware ecosystem from scratch without using Android as a basis like Nothing did this means that the playing field has to be with software.

 

[Pudlo]

The "gist" of your point does not remain. Apple is not and has no monopoly. The EU isn't "clamping down" on Apple so much as they're coming up with intentionally vague reglations all the while completely ignoring actual monopolies like Spotify.

you can say waht you want but from my perspective as an user it would be nice to have possiblity to chose between all available watches at the market and have them sync with any of my laptops and phones whatever the brand they are. At least that would push brands to make better products. For now Apple watch for example is old and kinda uninnovative so I would switch to Samsung but I can't, and I moved to iphone from my Samsung bc I like it more. But like now with no AI at all (I mean besides the ai icons which get boring after 5 minutes) I would easily switch to Huawei but I cant bc it would not sync with my macbook. So yeah sorry but I don't buy the whole Privacy Sercurity argument bc it is all about keeping their system closed no matter what. And people here arguing EU is stupid...like guys I'm a cunsumer, for me what EU wants is better, bc I want to have cheaper and better products. I have an iphone 16 PM bc Apple promised AI and where it is? They can do such a ******** only bc they know that to change my iphone I would need to change my laptop and my watch. And again, for me it would be better when they would sync all between brands. You promised AI and not delivered...ok np I go Huawei for the next two years and a watch from Samsung bc it just looks better EZ

PS. People arguing Apple is doing good things are like: yeah you should wear only t-shirts from Nike bc 7 years ago you bought shoes from them and you can't mix adidas with Nike or Reebok bc they will not work together and you would walk wonky and ofc your fitness would drop by 50%. All EU is tryint to say is: you should have possibilty to wear whatever you want in any combinatino you want involving underwear and addons like necklesses etc. and if you want to paint your hair blue it is still ok bc your shoes will work too. Guys do you remember that not so long ago you had to have a super special cable just for your iphone or ipod to charge it? Like sorry but how stupid it was and peopel were saying...it is for protection, like those apple cables are much safer...

 

[WeLikeVodka]

The "gist" of your point does not remain. Apple is not and has no monopoly. The EU isn't "clamping down" on Apple so much as they're coming up with intentionally vague reglations all the while completely ignoring actual monopolies like Spotify.

if you honestly think Spotify is a monopoly, please do your research. I can name at least five alternative music streaming competitors: youtube music, apple music, deezer, tidal, qq music, and there are many more, so Spotify being a "monopoly" just doesn't hold water.

not to mention Spotify doesn't have 1% of the hard power the big 5 have. Apple might be a tier "below" Google and Microsoft in terms of hard power, but it's still way more influential than anything Spotify can even dream of.

 

[Xiao_Xi]

Apple is not and has no monopoly.

Apple has been found guilty of abuse of dominance in the EU several times.

Apple Fined €150 Million in France for Abuse of Dominance - Paris Times

The French Competition Authority penalizes Apple for preferential treatment of its own apps in data consent processes.

paristimes.com

Apple Faces a Staggering Fine of Over EUR 1,8 Billion for Dominance Abuse

The European Commission has imposed a hefty fine of over EUR 1.8 billion on Apple for violating EU antitrust rules.

www.karanovicpartners.com

Dutch court confirms Apple abused dominant position in dating apps - NYK Daily

(Reuters) - A Dutch court on Monday confirmed a 2021 consumer watchdog 's ruling saying that Apple (AAPL.O), had abused its dominant position by imposing

nykdaily.com

 

[WeLikeVodka]

I guess we (EU) can forget about iPhone mirroring. It would be so handy for my workflow.

"but you can switch to android and windows!"

And so you'll have to possibly get rid of thousands of euros of Apple products because some guy on a forum said so.

This is why this debate exists, it's because apple uses closed ecosystems across the entire planet, no matter the legislation of each country they operate in.

That's unless their bottom line gets affected of course, ffs they kowtowed to Putin in 2021 to have certain apps preinstalled when you buy a new iphone