Apple Will Face Lawsuit Over Phone-Switching iMessage Issue

[AppleFan78]

"Moore's lawsuit alleges that she ceased receiving messages after she switched to the Samsung Galaxy S5 from an iPhone 4, which interfered with her contract with Verizon Wireless."
Huh? What does the iMessage issue have anything to do with a Verizon contract? Sounds like someone at Verizon didn't know what they were talking about, as usual...

 

[flyinmac]

Ummmmm... because it's hardly a big deal... Certainly not worthy of court action.

Reeks of "I can make some money here".

This really is just another 'only in America' story.

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Or, the user could accept some responsibility, do the tiniest bit of research, solve his/her own problem - and move on.

[Not to absolve Apple of their responsibilities either...]

The reality, is that essentially the only way to follow your advice, would have been for the user to do research in advance, learn that Apple is a monopoly player, and that if they dare to use Apple iPhones, they'll never be able to switch to another phone manufacturer.

There was no amount of information available after purchase to let someone know how to effectively resolve the problem in 100% of cases. The workarounds that were published by others (not Apple) only worked in some situations.

It is Apple's responsibility to undo monopoly practices within their products (regardless of the intention or accidental inclusion of those practices).

Failure to act on the problem, changes it from being an Accidental "Ooops" to being a deliberate action or willful action to utilize the "flaw" to their own benefit (as a monopolist company would do).

Microsoft didn't intend to prevent people from being able to use Netscape. You could use Netscape all you wanted. Yet, their ambition to extend Internet Explorer to enhance the Windows interface led to them being considered a Monopoly using unfair business practices.

The situation with Apple is even more clear cut and much more monopolistic, because they are preventing the switch to a competitor, while Microsoft allowed you to use any competing browser you desired.

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"Moore's lawsuit alleges that she ceased receiving messages after she switched to the Samsung Galaxy S5 from an iPhone 4, which interfered with her contract with Verizon Wireless."
Huh? What does the iMessage issue have anything to do with a Verizon contract? Sounds like someone at Verizon didn't know what they were talking about, as usual...

Or, it could simply be that not every detail was outlined...

It is also possible hypothetically that she was a subcontractor for Verizon, and this interfered with her obligations / abilities to do her job because she didn't get important text messages relating to tasks which needed to be performed.

It is also possible that this simply means that Apple interfered with the delivery of messages to her phone which operated on Verizon. That would interfere with her contract with Verizon, who she was paying to deliver content to her phone, yet Apple intercepted the content and prevented Verizon from being able to fulfill their contract with her.

It's really a simple statement, and people are trying to find some evil in that one little sentence. There is none there. And, it's really the less important detail.

 

[thalazy]

Easy to set-up and use

One of the things about owning an iPhone or Mac product is it's ease of use. When I bought my first iMac on Halloween I was surprised at just how easy it was to set up and use; my brain was not even needed. The same is pretty much true for an iPhone, is easy to use and it's something someone with little knowledge can use. We expect everything to be easy and not require a lot of brainpower.

Not sure about this case nor the person who brought it on but when dealing with a product that is easy to use we may take it for granted when we decide to leave the eco-system. Having never used iMessages, I am not sure if I would have known to do anything other than wiping my phone. Would I have known to call up Apple before I sell my iPhone...probably not. This case is good in that it hopefully lit a fire under Apple's behind and a fix is being released. Had this lawsuit not been brought I am not sure this would have been released.

 

[HuskyOffset]

The REAL reason for the new data centers...

The sender's iPhone only sends an SMS when that phone thinks it screwed up.

But in this case the iMessage goes to Apple's servers, the server's tell the sender's phone "I got it, she's offline but I'll send it when she's back!" and then the sender's phone says "ok" and forgets about it.

And the message just stays in Apple's server forever.

This is the real reason Apple is building those new data centers: storage space for limboed iMessages!

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It boggles my mind at how many of you defend them when the solution was pretty simple. The fact is there was a problem, regardless of if the user forgot to disable it or not, there should be a SIMPLE way to get it done. Apple is a company, they are not your mother or father, best friend, SO, etc.

They should have had this done, but they didn't until people were upset. Stupid of Apple, but hey it's done now.

This is the bit I find puzzling: why was Apple's iMessage system not detecting that it wasn't able to deliver an iMessage sent to certain users (the users who had switched from an iPhone to something else)? I would expect that after some amount of time, the iMessage system would either a) tell the sender that it couldn't deliver the message, or b) attempt to send the message as a plain txt message. Which thing it would do would depend on the sender's "send as plain text SMS" setting. Why was this not happening? Silently failing is the worst possible outcome, which clearly happened in this case.

The only way people sending to someone having this problem would notice is if the sender knew the receiver had "send read receipts" turned on and happened to notice the receiver was receiving, but not reading their iMessages.

The deregister tool shouldn't even exist, the iMessage system should be able to automatically detect when it can't deliver an iMessage and deal with it. In fact, it does this in most cases, but for a subset of users, it is failing. Very frustrating that it has taken this long and Apple hasn't actually fixed the problem. The deregister tool is a bandaid, not a viable long term solution.

 

[Hurda]

This should be quite obvious that if you switch to an android device you will not be able to use iMessage, you should have noticed that it does not work at all when you message your android buddies... unless you are the biggest moron on earth you need to be advised about this fact...

What kind of people upvote this nonsense?

 

[kaielement]

I switched to android a while back and never had an issue on getting my text messages and then after I realized I didn't like android i cam back to iPhone. Really I think this is just really people who know nothing at all about tech and I mean nothing suing over a non issue. I think the bigger issue is that the messages are being sent to an email address the person had active on the account with out knowing. You can deactivate the email address right from the phone. But as I said before we are dealing with people with people who know noting about how their phone works lol. Either that or I am just being a douche expecting people to know how their phone works lol.

 

[thekeyring]

Where did you get that from? Cook is Jobs' hand picked successor who worked under him for decades. Cook learned the same contemptuousness and disregard, but he hasn't got Job's narcissistic personality and he can't pull it off, damaging the Apple brand instead. That's why he's got to go.

I disagree. I don't think you can say 'he's not as charming, therefore he's not a good CEO'.

As for damaging the brand, I honestly find that only people like us who dissect every move have noticed anything different.

 

[flyinmac]

I switched to android a while back and never had an issue on getting my text messages and then after I realized I didn't like android i cam back to iPhone. Really I think this is just really people who know nothing at all about tech and I mean nothing suing over a non issue. I think the bigger issue is that the messages are being sent to an email address the person had active on the account with out knowing. You can deactivate the email address right from the phone. But as I said before we are dealing with people with people who know noting about how their phone works lol. Either that or I am just being a douche expecting people to know how their phone works lol.

Part of the issue, is like I pointed out, that Apple chose to integrate e-mail messaging transparently with the text messaging app.

If they had left it separate like it used to be with iChat, this wouldn't have even happened.

But, once you start mixing things together, you better have publicized a way that is obvious so that everything can be unmingled when someone switches to another platform.

Perhaps going the extra step to detect whether or not an iPhone is even still associated with that email address and phone number.

If they can detect what e-mail address is tied to which phone to determine who to send e-mails to and tell them to upgrade to iOS 8, then they certainly can tell if said user is even still using an iPhone.

And, as stated by others, a ping to the phone that detects whether said message was delivered should be implemented. I get texts notifying me of delivery failures of text messages. I get e-mails notifying me of failures to deliver e-mail messages. Certainly Apple could send a failure notice to the sender for failed e-mail messaging through iMessage.

These are established practices. Been around as long as cell phones and e-mail. How Apple could omit this, well.... yes... it is Apple... they are known to omit features that everything else has.

Apple could have even sent the recipient an e-mail that notified them that they've detected a failure to deliver messages to their phones. After all, they've gone flat crazy making it so that messages can go to your computer, your phone, your ipod, your iPad, all interchangibly... They have your e-mail address... They could easily send you a notice that something has gone wrong.

It's their messing with the concept of text messaging that created the problem... The least they could do is be part of a proactive solution.

But, they knew that this glitch was affecting people who left their brand... and like a monopoly, they chose to ignore it as a means of keeping people entrenched in the Apple system.

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Where did you get that from? Cook is Jobs' hand picked successor who worked under him for decades. Cook learned the same contemptuousness and disregard, but he hasn't got Job's narcissistic personality and he can't pull it off, damaging the Apple brand instead. That's why he's got to go.

I disagree. I don't think you can say 'he's not as charming, therefore he's not a good CEO'.

As for damaging the brand, I honestly find that only people like us who dissect every move have noticed anything different.

I wouldn't say we're the only ones who have noticed... I know people who don't follow any of the stories, and are self obsorbed in their own lives... And, yet they've made a sudden durastic move away from iPhones, Macs, and so on to Android and Windows platforms. And, these were die hard Apple people who purchased the latest of everything the second it was available. They have the disposable income, and go nuts on technology. I've never known them to spend less than $2000 a month on their Apple cycle of replacing everything through the course of the year to keep every little gadget to be the latest and greatest. Yet, I also personally know that they do not follow any discussions. They just buy, buy, buy... They're just people who have to have the latest constantly.

But, even they've moved away without explanation. And, just in the last like 4 months. They've noticed something changing, and even as fanatic as they were, they are unwilling to accept whatever changes in features they've observed on the retail shelf.

I never thought I'd see this from a house that has 5 iPads, 5 iPhones, and 5 Macs all being upgraded annually over the course of each year (not to mention all the other iGadget accessories and add-ons that relate to those products). These are people who have always just purchased replacements every time something new shows up on the shelf. And, by the time they replace the last item, they start the cycle over again and keep the rotation going.

Certainly, if people who don't even read discussion forums are seeing a trend they don't like, then those who do research products (beyond "oh pretty Apple") will move on as well.


I also know people who unfortunately would also avoid Apple products now that Tim has stated that he's "Gay"... I'm not one that would decide on that factor, and none of my friends would either. But, I do unfortunately know a large number of people who will decide on this factor alone. Unfortunate as that is. But, I do recall times when situations required me to associate / mingle with those people, and recall their large family gatherings where such topics would come up... I'm so happy I don't have to sit through that anymore... but it is a factor unfortunately that will play into the market.

 

[Steve121178]

I don't see this going far. Even if Apple released a tool to correct the issue, I'm sure there was some clause in the excessively long TOS that excluded Apple from any liability from iMessage.

I could build a new aircraft and put in the TOS that you can't sue me if the computer systems go down or a component fails which results in a crash. It doesn't mean it will stand up in court.

 

[diamond.g]

The sender's iPhone only sends an SMS when that phone thinks it screwed up.

But in this case the iMessage goes to Apple's servers, the server's tell the sender's phone "I got it, she's offline but I'll send it when she's back!" and then the sender's phone says "ok" and forgets about it.

And the message just stays in Apple's server forever.

This is the issue.
Is iMessage still opt in? Or does it default to on now.

Verzion (or other carriers) can't intercept and reroute iMessages. They're completely secured between the user's iPhone and Apple's servers.

That isn't entirely true, technically they could if the were doing MITM (via a web proxy) with DPI. Especially since the header of the message would most likely be unencrypted.

 

[Jmausmuc]

my brother had the same issue, apple didn't care at all.
This definitely did discourage users from switching away from the iPhone and in my opinion not fair competition.

 

[69Mustang]

After all, you essentially called me stupid in every sentence of your previous post.

I agree with you - I believe Apple should have addressed this earlier if the problem's as prevalent as many now say it is.



BTW, the 67 Mustang was better!

I never called you stupid, essentially or otherwise. To call someone stupid is to say they lack intelligence. I said you didn't understand the topic of the thread, which affected what you wrote. There is an appreciable difference and they are not synonymous.

If you genuinely feel I called you stupid, apologies.

 

[nia820]

i don't know how far this lawsuit will go. But apple should have done something to fix the issue rather sitting on their hands doing nothing.

I can guarantee that if the shoe were on the other foot and android users had issues sending text when switching to iOS there would be a massive uproar.

I thankfully never had this issue when I switched to android back in 2011 and then again in 2013. I've been using iOS and android on and off but it could be that I always chose to send my messages via SMS and not iMessage.

 

[Zaft]

This is rather simple. vast majority of the public have no clue they were even sending an imessage, it was just a text to them. You have to turn of imessage or it will continue to send, or try to send.

This is apple's fault for not building a better system. Users should not have to disable imessage.

 

[crackbookpro]

"Moore is seeking both class-action status and unspecified damages from Apple."

Alright, so because she couldn't receive messages anymore, she thinks she is entitled to monetary compensation for damages? This is ridiculous.

Couldn't she have just disabled iMessage before switching to a new phone? So for her not disabling iMessages, she is now entitled to damages?

^^^Spot on!!!^^^

She could have disabled the feature, and she could have done a couple thing if this person(s) took a little more time knowing what they have in their hands.

This lawsuit is preposterous. This is user-error from an erred-user.

Moore & other alike with no accountability for your own ridiculousness... Please never buy Apple again. Android will be a nice fit for you, until you realize that none of their updates caters towards your hardware. Not many riches with a ton of glitches...

You Android users need to look in the mirror. I could write a book on this "droid-error" revolution. Moving further down the road, try to be more objective instead of subjective.

Does anyone really understand what iMessage did for the SMS/MMS era when it debuted??? If you did, you would be thanking Apple for creating the change in the SMS/MMS market and offering iMessage. Not one co did what Apple did for the consumer... And now some petty droid user is in a droid-roid rage over their own user-error.

The Apple law team better do this pro bono for Apple.

 

[calaverasgrande]

of course there is a court case.
I'm generally a pretty live and let live guy, but all these hairtrigger court cases over tenuous claims of damage have their price. It's passed on to us as consumers, and as petty regulations.
I don't know what the alternative is, but seriously, how important where the plaintiffs text messages?

 

[Steve121178]

but seriously, how important where the plaintiffs text messages?

Importance is irrelevant, the fact is they were not getting them.

 

[69Mustang]

BTW, the 67 Mustang was better!

I'll take the 64 and a half

Blasphemy!! A pox on both your houses!! FWIW, I have this argument every other week with members of my car club who unfortunately made bad decisions by restoring something other than a 69. I win that argument when I remind them consensus says the 69 is the best.

A few notable owners of the 69: the Popes (all 265 of them), Darth Vader, Santa Claus, Leonidas and every one of the 300, the 47 Ronin, the Duke - John Wayne, Batman, OSX, Jesus, BACON, Zeus and Apollo, Sliced bread, the entire Justice League and the Legion of Doom, boobs, the Transporter, Master Chief, and me (you're right JustThinkin', putting me last does make it better - hat tip to you)

A few notable owners of the 64.5 & 67: Kim Jong Il, Whoopie Goldberg, Ebola, the 1929 Stock Market Crash, Hitler, Nickleback, Holidays that don't qualify for a day off work, not boobs, brussel sprouts, the updated mac mini, reality TV, Miss Daisy from Driving Miss Daisy, Ken and Barbie, every cast member from the Real World, Celine Dion, Mt. Saint Helen, irritable bowel syndrome, and Lance Armstrong.

As you can see, irrefutable proof of the superiority of the 69 Mustang (Fastback and Coupe).

Apologies to all for threadjacking.

 

[indychris]

iMessage is a proprietary system of cummunicating developed by a private entity for use on its ever-widening array of portable devices. Apple is in no way obligated to make their system work with other brands nor should they be required to notify people that their proprietary system won't work when people arbitrarily leave the Apple ecosystem in order to try something else.

While customers may decide that Apple's limited system does not suit them, that should be a simple matter of consumer choice, and therefore this should be a clear issue of 'buyer beware'.

I sure hope our world gets back to an attitude some day where people understand the sensibility of taking responsibility for themselves rather than always blaming others for their problems and inconveniences.

How hard can it be to google "What should I do before switching from iPhone to Android?"

 

[C DM]

Ummmmm... because it's hardly a big deal... Certainly not worthy of court action.

Reeks of "I can make some money here".

This really is just another 'only in America' story.

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Or, the user could accept some responsibility, do the tiniest bit of research, solve his/her own problem - and move on.

[Not to absolve Apple of their responsibilities either...]

So you completely ignored the facts that many people couldn't resolve this on their own or even with Apple's suggested solutions? Or that the comment about the lawsuit was made to say that it seems it was unfortunately necessary because nothing else was getting Apple to actually face and deal with the problem? I guess when reality is ignored then all kinds of comments can be made...it's just that they simply don't apply to the situation.

 

[mercuryjones]

my brother had the same issue, apple didn't care at all.
This definitely did discourage users from switching away from the iPhone and in my opinion not fair competition.

How did he determine this? Did he call Apple up and they said "I don't care." and then hung up on him, and then blocked his number? We must know!

 

[C DM]

iMessage is a proprietary system of cummunicating developed by a private entity for use on its ever-widening array of portable devices. Apple is in no way obligated to make their system work with other brands nor should they be required to notify people that their proprietary system won't work when people arbitrarily leave the Apple ecosystem in order to try something else.

While customers may decide that Apple's limited system does not suit them, that should be a simple matter of consumer choice, and therefore this should be a clear issue of 'buyer beware'.

I sure hope our world gets back to an attitude some day where people understand the sensibility of taking responsibility for themselves rather than always blaming others for their problems and inconveniences.

How hard can it be to google "What should I do before switching from iPhone to Android?"

Does Googling that resolve the problems Apple has been having with people still running into these issues even after doing everything they were supposed to do? And there you go.

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of course there is a court case.
I'm generally a pretty live and let live guy, but all these hairtrigger court cases over tenuous claims of damage have their price. It's passed on to us as consumers, and as petty regulations.
I don't know what the alternative is, but seriously, how important where the plaintiffs text messages?

How about something that would finally force Apple to face the issue and deal with it (as they suddenly have now)?

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^^^Spot on!!!^^^

She could have disabled the feature, and she could have done a couple thing if this person(s) took a little more time knowing what they have in their hands.

This lawsuit is preposterous. This is user-error from an erred-user.

Moore & other alike with no accountability for your own ridiculousness... Please never buy Apple again. Android will be a nice fit for you, until you realize that none of their updates caters towards your hardware. Not many riches with a ton of glitches...

You Android users need to look in the mirror. I could write a book on this "droid-error" revolution. Moving further down the road, try to be more objective instead of subjective.

Does anyone really understand what iMessage did for the SMS/MMS era when it debuted??? If you did, you would be thanking Apple for creating the change in the SMS/MMS market and offering iMessage. Not one co did what Apple did for the consumer... And now some petty droid user is in a droid-roid rage over their own user-error.

The Apple law team better do this pro bono for Apple.

A misunderstanding of the issue doesn't result in meaningful commentary.

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I don't get it- She left apple by switching to Galaxy- and now she wants iMessage? She needs to stay on the apple devices to get their services- this is ludicrous! Did someone make this up?

The part you seem to be talking about certainly seems to be made up given that none of this is about that at all.

 

[samcraig]

Does Googling that resolve the problems Apple has been having with people still running into these issues even after doing everything they were supposed to do? And there you go.

I loved some of his phrasing.

when people arbitrarily leave the Apple ecosystem in order to try something else.

While customers may decide that Apple's limited system does not suit them, that should be a simple matter of consumer choice, and therefore this should be a clear issue of 'buyer beware'.


LOL. No bias there.

 

[kingtj]

I have to disagree....

I hate most of these class-action lawsuits and legal actions over petty inconveniences. But frankly, this one strikes me as legitimate.

When you pay the (not insignificant) monthly fees for phone service with SMS and data, you expect to receive the basic services promised. Considering all of the phone handsets that are subsidized by the carriers as part of getting into service contracts with them, and in many cases, the limitations placed on the hardware (phones locked to the carrier and/or custom apps loaded that can't be removed)? I think it's easy to establish the fact that the service and the handset are essentially bundled together as a "product". (Smartphones without service plans aren't too useful, and nobody I know subscribes to a cellular plan when they don't own a phone handset!)

It's great that Apple released a fix for the issue NOW, but how many people went months and months with SMS service broken while Apple spouted off the line about "we have no way to fix the issue"?

This is the very definition of a frivolous lawsuit. Plus, it would be very hard to prove damage in this case.

 

[Mlrollin91]

While quite a few others did.

Don't get the wrong idea, I totally get that others had the issue, but that doesn't make it lawsuit/damage worthy.