Apple Will Face Lawsuit Over Phone-Switching iMessage Issue

[WrQth]

I don't see why a phone manufacturer should be allowed to lock my phone number in their system in the first place. Why would i need to tell my phone manufacturer that I'm switching? What does he have to do with that? #justapplethings

Well if you are using a service they provide which is exclusive to them then yeah you should. In essence you allowed Apple to act as your SMS gateway/relay and when you enabled iMessage then decided to not use it anymore you should tell them so they can clean up their end.

Wouldn't you expect your cable tv provider to just know that you've moved to a new residence or would you expect to call and let them know you moved?

Obviously Apple did a poor job of telling people that they need to let Apple know they've moved on.

 

[Boston007]

There was a solution. Turn off iMessage from your phone before you switch. If you have switched put your sim back into said phone and disable it.

Did you read the article?
"Earlier this week, Apple introduced a tool that allows users to deregister their phone number from iMessage in order to prevent the issue from occurring. Prior to the launch of the web tool, there was no way for users to effectively remove themselves from the iMessage system."

 

[pnosko]

There are plenty of documented cases of this issue. While it's difficult to come up with a monetary value, it's very easy to prove that there's a problem - especially when Apple sat on this known issue for three years.

And issued a fix. I love Apple and love my Macs and iPhones. But they screwed up here and issued the lamest press statement possible.

"Apple takes customer satisfaction extremely seriously, but the law does not provide a remedy when, as here, technology simply does not function as plaintiff subjectively believes it should," the Cupertino, California-based company said.

 

[cfedu]

That is 100% incorrect. They indeed have had, since iMessage came out, a way to get out of it. It was called, turning iMessage off before you switch phones. Works like a charm. I used it on my son's phone.

What Apple failed to do was make it easily understood of the process.

Furthermore, if the user has an iPad or Mac? She did not actually lose anything, she was just inconvenienced.



Again, since day 1 there has been a way to get out. Turn it off. The problem lies on people who didn't know (a large majority, I would think) that they had to turn off iMessage before ditching the iPhone. Bonus! If the user had an iPad and/or Mac, they would not have lost any message, and been able to disassociate the phone number from there.

This tool is just for those who forgot and/or didn't know they had to, and only had the one Apple device.

I did not forget, I knew about this issue I turned off iMessage using apples help guide online and any other information I could find about this issue.

I called Apple and had a telephone agent also go through the procedure with me and I still had the issue. They finally had to manually remove me from the system as Just turning off iMessage did not work.

 

[BinaryTim]

Judge me not

Judge Lucy Koh. 'Nuff said.

 

[Cyberius11]

Did you read the article?
"Earlier this week, Apple introduced a tool that allows users to deregister their phone number from iMessage in order to prevent the issue from occurring. Prior to the launch of the web tool, there was no way for users to effectively remove themselves from the iMessage system."

Then the article is wrong. If you turn off iMessage prior to switching there is no issue. I have done this several times without issue. The first time I went over to Android I had the problem, which was quickly solved by simply changing my Apple ID password. The other few times I've swapped, you turn off iMessage, then change devices.

 

[Yumbo]

How do they NOT?

Verizon handle both your data and your cellular. Seems like Verizon could re-route an i-message to SMS because THEY are those ones who had to switch the phone service.

I'm not saying they should, but that they could. I'm sure Apple doesn't have the ability to track people who switch back and forth realtime but Verizon does.

That suggests an automated script from carrier to iMessage server, which is disallowed as user may be unaware permission wise.
Furthermore not all iMessage users have authorised or supported carriers.

 

[TimelessOne]

Apple is not in the business of ****** you up. High customer satisfaction is one of the things that put them where they are, and it's high on their priorities.

That doesn't mean every customer is satisfied.

I have no illusions about Apple being sweet and caring. But the idea that Apple is setting up ways to f me up is just you being paranoid.

But one key fact in this mess. This is only a punishment if you try to leave apple ecosystem. They make it as hard as possible to do so. This one just happen to fall under the unethical ones they did and they figured correctly most people would blame their new phone instead of Apple.

 

[639051]

It boggles my mind at how many of you defend them when the solution was pretty simple. The fact is there was a problem, regardless of if the user forgot to disable it or not, there should be a SIMPLE way to get it done. Apple is a company, they are not your mother or father, best friend, SO, etc.

They should have had this done, but they didn't until people were upset. Stupid of Apple, but hey it's done now.

 

[TimelessOne]

Again it's not Apples fault those users are choosing to send messages to an outdated former iPhone users iMessage account any more than it is Google's fault because my Google+ friends can't send messages to my 6+ using iMessage.

But it is apple's fault that it is hard to get the system undated to do so. Also do you expect people to contact all the people in their contacts to do that change that only some times works.

 

[samcraig]

But one key fact in this mess. This is only a punishment if you try to leave apple ecosystem. They make it as hard as possible to do so. This one just happen to fall under the unethical ones they did and they figured correctly most people would blame their new phone instead of Apple.

I would almost bet it was an afterthought more than deliberate

IE -

Engineer: "hey - you know if someone forgets to turn this off and they leave iOS, then they wouldn't get their texts"

Manager: "Then then shouldn't leave. I wouldn't worry about it. That's not our problem. Bonus for us is that they'll have a crappier experience on the other phone then."

 

[cfedu]

Did you read the article?
"Earlier this week, Apple introduced a tool that allows users to deregister their phone number from iMessage in order to prevent the issue from occurring. Prior to the launch of the web tool, there was no way for users to effectively remove themselves from the iMessage system."

It's hard to read when you are wearing Apple glasses and drunk on kool-aid. The only frivolous part of the suit, is that it is not a Criminal Anti trust case from the DOJ.

 

[TimelessOne]

I would almost bet it was an afterthought more than deliberate

IE -

Engineer: "hey - you know if someone forgets to turn this off and they leave iOS, then they wouldn't get their texts"

Manager: "Then then shouldn't leave. I wouldn't worry about it. That's not our problem. Bonus for us is that they'll have a crappier experience on the other phone then."

And that response is where Apple screwed up.
I can buy them not thinking about it when designing. But no way in hell this was not reported with in a month or 2. At that point it should be a high priority issue. Apple intentionally choose not to address it and knowingly choose to do so. It became a bonus that it was hard as hell.

 

[WilliamLondon]

But shockingly, here come the Applelogists!

Really? I think it's more a case of the trolls coming out to defend someone for eating nuts when she has a nut allergy because the bag of nuts didn't warn her there were nuts in it.

 

[hagar]

The replies in this thread are exactly why Apple fanboys have a bad name.

Apple is clearly in the wrong here: either on purpose to lock people into their ecosystem, or by being incompetent and unable to fix this sooner.

This de-register-tool is completely unnecessary: if someone wants to send an iMessage to someone who has no longer an iPhone, the Apple Server can figure this out very easily: if the message cannot be delivered it should notify the sender so he/she can try again as a green SMS message. Done.

It's that simple. Apple is control over the devices and the server. The whole chain. So technically this solution does not make any sense. They made a big mistake here, and this lawsuit is entirely justified.

If you buy an 800$ dollar communication device, you want to be able to send messages with it, even to friends that don't have an iPhone anymore. This is ridiculous.

 

[gavroche]

The Deregister tool was a long time coming and should've been introduced at around the same time iMessage was.

But shockingly, here come the Applelogists!

I wish i had so much time on my hands to think up creative names to make fun of Apple users.
I know, here's a thought... actually discuss the merits of the case/article..?

 

[cfedu]

I would almost bet it was an afterthought more than deliberate

IE -

Engineer: "hey - you know if someone forgets to turn this off and they leave iOS, then they wouldn't get their texts"

Manager: "Then then shouldn't leave. I wouldn't worry about it. That's not our problem. Bonus for us is that they'll have a crappier experience on the other phone then."

Bingo

 

[Kenn Marks]

judge Koh anti Apple?

Considering this is the same judge who slapped Samsung's hand for copyright infringement. What next is Apple going to be sued when a users email at @mac, @me or @icloud.com won't show up at their new @gmail account because the end user didn't do their part to ensure everyone was notified of the change.

 

[Yumbo]

The sender's iPhone only sends an SMS when that phone thinks it screwed up.

But in this case the iMessage goes to Apple's servers, the server's tell the sender's phone "I got it, she's offline but I'll send it when she's back!" and then the sender's phone says "ok" and forgets about it.

And the message just stays in Apple's server forever.

There is NO iMessage server.
Only an activation server.
Messages are NOT stored.

 

[doelcm82]

And that response is where Apple screwed up.
I can buy them not thinking about it when designing. But no way in hell this was not reported with in a month or 2. At that point it should be a high priority issue. Apple intentionally choose not to address it and knowingly choose to do so. It became a bonus that it was hard as hell.

So they stick it in the queue with all their other high priority issues, and they get to it when they've worked through their highest priority issues and their higher priority issues.

There are probably some people who are angry with you now. The issues that affect them are not getting enough attention because you wanted this one to be done first.

 

[gavroche]

Did you read the article?

"Earlier this week, Apple introduced a tool that allows users to deregister their phone number from iMessage in order to prevent the issue from occurring. Prior to the launch of the web tool, there was no way for users to effectively remove themselves from the iMessage system."

Funny how they suddenly released a method to do this only after the threat of a lawsuit. I guess there really was a problem and perhaps this case has merit.

What they guy you quoted (and I guess felt justified in trying to rudely insult) was saying was that even prior to this tool being released by Apple... anyone could have turned deactivated the feature from iMessages before getting rid of the phone.... and would not have had the problem. It was only if they did nothing prior to changing service that they had the problem. Not a completely valid defense.... but absolutely no need to insult the guy for pointing that out.

 

[Verita]

Lucy Koh at it again. Don't know why they keep routing Apple's legal problems through this woman who clearly shows she has bias against them.

 

[kolax]

The sender's iPhone only sends an SMS when that phone thinks it screwed up.

But in this case the iMessage goes to Apple's servers, the server's tell the sender's phone "I got it, she's offline but I'll send it when she's back!" and then the sender's phone says "ok" and forgets about it.

And the message just stays in Apple's server forever.

Okay I follow that much, but what you're commenting on is what happens when my iPhone doesn't have any data, it'll send as an SMS. When my friend's don't have any data, my iPhone knows that, and it'll send it as an SMS. It happens really quickly too - as soon as a friend left his home WiFi and was in a data black spot outside his home, my iPhone right away started sending them as SMS.

If my friend turns his iPhone off, my iPhone/Apple's server lets me know and switches to SMS for that contact. So taking out the SIM card and putting it in an Android device will do the same thing. What has Apple broken that makes that no longer work?

These must be isolated incidents as I've had a friend move from an iPhone to Android without deactivating iMessage and he's been fine.

I'm not sticking up for Apple by any means, I do think they're at fault, I'm just trying to workout what exactly is failing in their system for this to happen.

 

[bluespark]

More terrible legal reporting from Mac Rumors -- this article doesn't even identify the type of motion on which the court was ruling. Merely saying Apple "must face" an already existing lawsuit is useless.

 

[brianvictor7]

Considering this is the same judge who slapped Samsung's hand for copyright infringement. What next is Apple going to be sued when a users email at @mac, @me or @icloud.com won't show up at their new @gmail account because the end user didn't do their part to ensure everyone was notified of the change.

The argument they seem to be using is that their old apple service is interferring with their new service. Emailing an old address should 1) not forward to the new one or 2) prevent the use of the new one so long as you have 1) not set up forwarding in your old account and 2) the person emailing you is correctly sending to the new acct.