Apple Working on Solution for EU Core Technology Fee Possibly Bankrupting Apps That Go Unexpectedly Viral

[Abazigal]

Android has:
1. Alt App Stores
2. Side loading
3. 3x more users than iOS

Yet, developers made 2X more on iOS.

WHY IS THIS?

Could it be that Apple’s “walled garden” is better for developers?

Edit:
Might that “walled garden” be better for consumers? If 1/3 the users buy 2X on your platform, *something* must be different to make purchases more trustworthy & valuable.

I WONDER IF APPLE HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE DIFFERENCE?

I can think of a number of reasons, but critics will never acknowledge the role the App Store has played in growing the overall pie for developers.

1) Apple has aggregated the best customers thanks to the iPhone. So iOS users tend to spend more on apps by virtue of them having more disposable income in general.

2) It is harder to pirate apps due to the inability to sideload on iOS. Meaning if you want an app on your iPhone, you pay for it the old fashioned way. Hence more money spent.

3) Apple did go out of their way to condition users to trust the App Store, which has led them to purchase and download more apps than they otherwise would have if developers had simply required them to install APK files from random websites.

4) Apple is able to enforce the implementation of features like ATT and Sign in with Apple. Sucks for developers, great for me as the end user.

5) There is effort made by Apple to curate their App Store. Maybe not perfect, but the App Store user experience is definitely leaps and bounds better on iOS compared to android.

We can debate about whether 30% is fair, but it’s hard to make the point that Apple doesn’t deserve a single cent for the role they have played in creating an entire marketplace, much less argue that Apple should somehow be expected to subsidise all this solely via hardware profits.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Yes as with everything else when a crime is committed.

Personal responsibility is something adults have, no need to babysit them.

Man this is gonna be a hoot 😂

I really do hope they go all in for zero notarization — I’ll feel bad for the victims, but it will be enjoyable to laugh at all the EU backers who want this 👍🏼

 

[GroovyCatticus]

I can think of a number of reasons, but critics will never acknowledge the role the App Store has played in growing the overall pie for developers.

To people with zero imagination and who have never built anything for sale on the FREE MARKET, the App Store is just a “download site”.

They won’t answer why Android can’t compete with 3X the users, because that makes their whole argument a loser.

Is tearing down what Apple built really going to improve things for developers and users?

It just looks like a whole lot of effort for nebulous gain with many potentially negative outcomes.

 

[Abazigal]

Is tearing down what Apple built really going to improve things for developers and users?

It just looks like a whole lot of effort for nebulous gain with many potentially negative outcomes.

It makes sense when you view the DMA through the lens of it basically being a form of protectionism by the EU in a bid to shore up their own businesses like Spotify.

Throughout this entire conversation, we have not heard about how this will benefit consumers, much less heard from the consumers’ perspective on all this.

So to your answer, yes, a few larger developers will probably stand to benefit. What this means for everyone else, well, I guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

It makes sense when you view the DMA through the lens of it basically being a form of protectionism by the EU in a bid to shore up their own businesses like Spotify.

Of course we all know this was what it’s really about.

The EU posters here preaching about “freedom” and “innovation” have just bought into the propaganda.

Arguing facts with them is a fool’s errand.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

No, they don't want Apple to force notarization upon developers. Apple has been designated as a gatekeeper, and the whole point of competition law is to make companies like Apple stop gatekeeping.

Just make iOS more like macOS, where users have the final say over whether or not they can install apps.

Maybe if Apple stops behaving like a mobster and starts complying in good faith, they can convince most developers that want to use web distribution or alternative stores to voluntarily notarize their apps.

EU to Apple — nice platform you’ve got here. Would be a shame for something to happen to it.

Now pay us $2 billion and listen to our offer you can’t refuse.

Hmm — who’s acting like the “mobster” here?

 

[Sophisticatednut]

A digital good, bought and consumed on an iPhone, uses Apples IP to "come alive".
A physical good, like a hamburger, does not.

And what IP is that? Why don’t cydia store pay anything? Why don’t the millions of jailbreaking applications and mods not pay anything?

So why don’t any store selling digital goods that is consumed on an iPhone pay anything?

Netflix subscription doesn’t pay anything for watching movies. Going to Amazon dot com and buying books for the iPhone doesn’t pay anything. Spotify premium doesn’t pay Apple anything, Uber doesn’t pay anything etc.

Could it be because apple lost the chicken race?

Yes, they own 65% of the hotel booking market and this year may fall under the number of users provision of the “gatekeeper” rule.

What will the EU regulators do to them I wonder? 🤔

My prediction: NOTHING THAT WILL CHANGE ANYTHING IN A MEANINGFUL WAY

Can you think of “rule” that will help other booking sites compete?

Force them to charge more?
Make their features worse?
Show fewer commercials on TV!

What a joke.

Red the DMA and you will get your questions answered.

Booking, ByteDance and X notify their potential gatekeeper status to the Commission under the Digital Markets Act

European Commission received notifications from Booking, ByteDance and X, about their services potentially meeting the Digital Markets Act (DMA) thresholds, which could make them subject to the new EU rules on gatekeeper platforms.

digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

It makes sense when you view the DMA through the lens of it basically being a form of protectionism by the EU in a bid to shore up their own businesses like Spotify.

Throughout this entire conversation, we have not heard about how this will benefit consumers, much less heard from the consumers’ perspective on all this.

So to your answer, yes, a few larger developers will probably stand to benefit. What this means for everyone else, well, I guess we will just have to wait and see.

How do you explain the attention Apple is getting from US regulators?

 

[bsolar]

Throughout this entire conversation, we have not heard about how this will benefit consumers, much less heard from the consumers’ perspective on all this.

The DMA's impact assesment is public and the rationale behind the DMA itself is also public and especially the impact assessment documentations is very detailed.

The way the DMA will supposedly benefit consumers from the point of view of the EU is very clearly documented. Whether they are right or not is of course still to be seen, but for sure it's nothing obscure or ambiguous.

 

[Abazigal]

How do you explain the attention Apple is getting from US regulators?

US government officials don’t understand their own monopoly laws, plus it’s election year, so maybe they want to be seen to be doing something? I doubt anything will come out of it though.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Nice! Then EU should fund the development of “FreeOS” and all the devs who want to give away their work for free can jump on board 👍🏼

No need. There is already a massive community and a website. It’s called GitHub. On there are a multitude of free as in freedom apps. Millions of them in fact. They are made for all and any operating systems - even iOS! It’s cool and it may well open your eyes to a wider world. Here’s the link github.com.

 

[bsolar]

Arguing facts with them is a fool’s errand.

Which "facts"? Everyone stating as a fact that the DMA will be a success are just as foolish as those stating as a fact that it will be a failure.

It will likely take years for the DMA to be properly assessed in its impact. Until then we are all guessing, especially since we don't know how the DMA will evolve through the years.

 

[jakey rolling]

What if that also makes things better for consumers? Is that not a consideration?

Monopolists leveraging their market position to further entrench that market position is rarely "better for consumers."

 

[GroovyCatticus]

And what IP is that? Why don’t cydia store pay anything? Why don’t the millions of jailbreaking applications and mods not pay anything?

What are you arguing? Because Apple can’t collect any money from jailbreakers they don’t have any IP involved?

That is the most asinine take ever if so — if not, you need to communicate more effectively.

So why don’t any store selling digital goods that is consumed on an iPhone?

What are you trying to say here? Not coherent.

Netflix subscription doesn’t pay anything for watching movies. Going to Amazon dot com and buying books for the iPhone doesn’t pay anything. Spotify premium doesn’t pay Apple anything, Uber doesn’t pay anything etc.

Yes — physical goods aren’t part of the commission. “Reader” apps like Netflix and Spotify can sign up on their own website and don’t pay commission.

What’s your point?

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Man this is gonna be a hoot 😂

I really do hope they go all in for zero notarization — I’ll feel bad for the victims, but it will be enjoyable to laugh at all the EU backers who want this 👍🏼

Say hello from windows and Mac. We survived.

If the victims don’t think they can be responsible then stay in the apple AppStore.

To people with zero imagination and who have never built anything for sale on the FREE MARKET, the App Store is just a “download site”.

They won’t answer why Android can’t compete with 3X the users, because that makes their whole argument a loser.

Is tearing down what Apple built really going to improve things for developers and users?

It just looks like a whole lot of effort for nebulous gain with many potentially negative outcomes.

Nothing is torn down. The AppStore is still here.

It makes sense when you view the DMA through the lens of it basically being a form of protectionism by the EU in a bid to shore up their own businesses like Spotify.

Throughout this entire conversation, we have not heard about how this will benefit consumers, much less heard from the consumers’ perspective on all this.

So to your answer, yes, a few larger developers will probably stand to benefit. What this means for everyone else, well, I guess we will just have to wait and see.

It doesn’t considering the vast majority of developers are from the U.S. and will greatly benefit from the freedom to build apps that don’t need to follow the AppStore guidelines and be completely open source or completely free.

There’s nothing in these rules that benefits EU developers more than U.S. developers etc.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Which "facts"? Everyone stating as a fact that the DMA will be a success are just as foolish as those stating as a fact that it will be a failure.

The “facts” that the App Store has been a huge success, for both developers and Apple.

The “facts” that Android, with all the “features” the DMA is trying to foist on Apple, is only 1/2 the iOS market with 3X users. Does the EU explain the discrepancy?

I strongly believe the new DMA rules are a net negative for iOS. Yes, a couple big companies might make a bit more money. And you may gain access to some apps Apple wouldn’t allow. But the negatives forced upon users, and the potential for malware if notarizing isn’t allowed, make it all too flawed for such minimal gains.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

What are you arguing? Because Apple can’t collect any money from jailbreakers they don’t have any IP involved?

That is the most asinine take ever if so — if not, you need to communicate more effectively.

The question is why can’t Apple do that? Is it because they don’t have a legal case perhaps?

I’m not asking about jailbreakers, but the developers who sell their apps pocketing 100% of the revenue in these alternative stores?

What are you trying to say here? Not coherent.

Why some alternative stores have to pay a fee while others don’t

Yes — physical goods aren’t part of the commission. “Reader” apps like Netflix and Spotify can sign up on their own website and don’t pay commission.

What’s your point?

My point is Apple tried to force Uber to pay a 30% fee on their IAP services, and so did they try and push Netflix to continue to offer IAP.

it’s only because apple couldn’t convince them.

Uber launched their app with alternative in application publishing methods just like epic did, but Apple buckled

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Say hello from windows and Mac. We survived.

If the victims don’t think they can be responsible then stay in the apple AppStore.

Wow — clearly speaking only for yourself as malware and ransomeware really do exist. I’m sure all the victims are happy they had the freedom to be infected and ransomed 🙄

So…how exactly are people to know they were not “responsible” until after infection?

Without notarization it really is going to be a free for all. Fake apps, fake websites offering fake apps. And if these fakes are coming from non EU countries — what good will your rules and enforcement be?

Your position on this is very interesting.

You believe people are adults, and are capable of making “responsible” decisions. But not so much when choosing the iPhone and its well known walled garden vs. Android.

Why is that?

 

[GroovyCatticus]

No need. There is already a massive community and a website. It’s called GitHub. On there are a multitude of free as in freedom apps. Millions of them in fact. They are made for all and any operating systems - even iOS! It’s cool and it may well open your eyes to a wider world. Here’s the link github.com.

Well gee, who knew!?

Now if only GitHub had a free phone and a free OS!

No free phone? No free OS?

Better get on that EU!

GitHub NEEEDS you!

 

[bsolar]

The “facts” that the App Store has been a huge success, for both developers and Apple.

The “facts” that Android, with all the “features” the DMA is trying to foist on Apple, is only 1/2 the iOS market with 3X users. Does the EU explain the discrepancy?

I strongly believe the new DMA rules are a net negative for iOS. Yes, a couple big companies might make a bit more money. And you may gain access to some apps Apple wouldn’t allow. But the negatives forced upon users, and the potential for malware if notarizing isn’t allowed, make it all too flawed for such minimal gains.

It's fair to believe that, as long as it's understood time might prove you wrong. The same of course applies to those who have a different belief than yours. Time might prove them wrong.

On the matter of notarization, Apple will be able to notarize whatever they want on their own App Store: what might happen is that Apple would not be able to impose the same notarization requirements to third-party apps delivered through third-party app stores.

Like with many features that give control in the hands of the end user, it's definitely a double-edged sword, but one that it's in the hands of the users to either take or not. Users that trust only Apple are not being forced to install or use anything else unless they want.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Wow — clearly speaking only for yourself as malware and ransomeware really do exist. I’m sure all the victims are happy they had the freedom to be infected and ransomed 🙄

So…how exactly are people to know they were not “responsible” until after infection?

They stay on the AppStore. Easy peasy lemonsquezy. And Apple can have all the safety rules they can possibly think of for their AppStore.

Without notarization it really is going to be a free for all. Fake apps, fake websites offering fake apps. And if these fakes are coming from non EU countries — what good will your rules and enforcement be?

Existing security standards that banks and payment systems in EU have to abide by.

EU have the lowest transactional fraud rates for a reason. Both in absolute number and by value.

Your position on this is very interesting.

You believe people are adults, and are capable of making “responsible” decisions. But not so much when choosing the iPhone and its well known walled garden vs. Android.

Why is that?

Consumers are adult enough to choose android or iOS.

The DMA don’t care for only consumers tho, but other companies who compete on the iOS marketplace.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Like with many features that give control in the hands of the end user, it's definitely a double-edged sword, but one that it's in the hands of the users to either take or not. Users that trust only Apple are not being forced to install or use anything else unless they want.

Well ya — and we know exactly how this played out on PCs.

Do we really not learn from our mistakes?

Besides a few nerds, who really wants this “freedom”? When normal people are tricked into downloading malware, who do you think will get blamed?

It better freaking be the EU!

 

[bsolar]

Consumers are adult enough to choose android or iOS.

Yes and no, as some consumers might be invested enough in a platform to find difficult to switch.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

They stay on the AppStore. Easy peasy lemonsquezy. And Apple can have all the safety rules they can possibly think of for their AppStore.

Ah, so a non-answer. Too bad, so sad as long as you get to do what you want.

Existing security standards that banks and payment systems in EU have to abide by.

Umm…what does this have to do with malware downloaded from a website?

The DMA don’t care for only consumers tho, but other companies who compete on the iOS marketplace.

Clearly they don’t care about consumers at all based on what they’ve done so far.

Actually it’s very consumer hostile — enjoy the malware brought to you by the DMA 😂

 

[bsolar]

Well ya — and we know exactly how this played out on PCs.

You mean the hugely successful product that literally revolutionized the world?

There is a reason the open model prevailed in the PC space and it's because it might have negatives, but also provides massive positives.