Apple Working to Add Support for Sideloading and Alternate App Stores in Europe

[Samplasion]

You're asking the same question that gets asked and answered dozens of times in the threads on this topic.

Personally, my primary issues are developers that may choose to leave the App Store and piracy. For example, if Microsoft chooses to set up their own store, I will have to install their store for work reasons. So the choice to "simply stay" isn't that simple.

Most users won't leave the App Store (be it for technological inexpertise or being used to it), so leaving it would mean losing access to a majority of users.
Besides, if you look at Android, most apps are on the Play Store despite it being an open platform.
And in the unique event your app gets taken off the App Store, you can just use an alternative.

For the piracy thing, I'll let you know that, on iOS, piracy is a thing even today without access to third party stores.

 

[BaldiMac]

Most users won't leave the App Store (be it for technological inexpertise or being used to it), so leaving it would mean losing access to a majority of users.

I'm glad you can see a future that just happens to fit your argument.

In today's reality, Epic isn't spending tens of millions of dollars to fight Apple in order to remain in the App Store.

Besides, if you look at Android, most apps are on the Play Store despite it being an open platform.

Kinda strange that the EU is forcing Apple to do something that consumers don't want. I think the number I saw was that less than 1% ever sideloaded an app on Android.

It's almost like this regulation is being pushed to benefit large developers and not consumers. Hmmm...

And in the unique event your app gets taken off the App Store, you can just use an alternative.

Which gets back to my point. It will affect those of us that choose not to check the box.

For the piracy thing, I'll let you know that, on iOS, piracy is a thing even today without access to third party stores.

Again, being a thing and not being a thing are not the only two options. It's a false dichotomy.

 

[dk001]

You're asking the same question that gets asked and answered dozens of times in the threads on this topic.

Personally, my primary issues are developers that may choose to leave the App Store and piracy. For example, if Microsoft chooses to set up their own store, I will have to install their store for work reasons. So the choice to "simply stay" isn't that simple.

While your concerns have some merit it is an assumption on both the solution and the response.
At this point I am more interested in what Apple’s solution will look like.

 

[BaldiMac]

While your concerns have some merit it is an assumption on both the solution and the response.

Of course.

At this point I am more interested in what Apple’s solution will look like.

Personally, I speculate that Apple's response to the DMA on this topic won't change the status quo as much as people think. From my amateur reading of the DMA section on sideloading, I think Apple could still require that sideloaded apps and third-party App Stores allow Apple to vet all the apps and collect a platform fee (like in the Dutch dating app case).

But that will still bring the annoyances of variable pricing, multiple update checks, discount codes, and store exclusivity.

 

[AppliedMicro]

For example, if Microsoft chooses to set up their own store, I will have to install their store for work reasons.

Being limited in choice of word processing or spreadsheet applications is an issue on (literally) a whole different level than having only two operating systems to (realistically) choose from.

Also, what's wrong with a Microsoft store? I fully trust Microsoft not to scam me or install malware on my devices - and so do hundreds of thousands of government (or medical. or social security. etc) entities with millions of users around the world.

Do I trust their privacy and data collection policies and practices? Much less so.

But then, when a word processor such as Microsoft Word from the App Store may "collect and link to (my) identity my location, contact info, contacts, user content, usage data, identifiers and diagnostics" today...

👉 What difference does it make if I have to download it from their (Microsoft's) store?

You either trust an application and its developer or you don't. It's that simple.

 

[Samplasion]

Kinda strange that the EU is forcing Apple to do something that consumers don't want. I think the number I saw was that less than 1% ever sideloaded an app on Android.

The fact developers aren't leaving the Play Store has absolutely nothing to do with consumers asking for decent control over their phones.
Besides, Epic rubbing their hands at the thought of EpicGamesStore.ipa doesn't make it any less appealing to an end user who can finally install their favorite non-App Store apps.

Again, being a thing and not being a thing are not the only two options. It's a false dichotomy.

Assuming what you're saying is true (which it isn't for the very nature of "being" which can either be or not be) how can piracy only kinda sorta be a thing?

 

[BaldiMac]

Being limited in choice of word processing or spreadsheet applications is an issue on (literally) a whole different level than having only two operating systems to (realistically) choose from.

Also, what's wrong with a Microsoft store? I fully trust Microsoft not to scam me or install malware on my devices - and so do hundreds of thousands of government (or medical. or social security. etc) entities with millions of users around the world.

Do I trust their privacy and data collection policies and practices? Much less so.

But then, when a word processor such as Microsoft Word from the App Store may "collect and link to (my) identity my location, contact info, contacts, user content, usage data, identifiers and diagnostics" today...

👉 What difference does it make if I have to download it from their (Microsoft's) store?

You either trust an application and its developer or you don't. It's that simple.

I have no idea what any of that has to do with what I was talking about. You just made up my side of the argument.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Personally, I speculate that Apple's response to the DMA on this topic won't change the status quo as much as people think. From my amateur reading of the DMA section on sideloading, I think Apple could still require that sideloaded apps and third-party App Stores allow Apple to vet all the apps and collect a platform fee (like in the Dutch dating app case).

But that will still bring the annoyances of variable pricing, multiple update checks, discount codes, and store exclusivity.

Good luck with that.

 

[BaldiMac]

The fact developers aren't leaving the Play Store has absolutely nothing to do with consumers asking for decent control over their phones.

I think it clearly implies that hardly any consumers are demanding alternate app sources on Android.

Besides, Epic rubbing their hands at the thought of EpicGamesStore.ipa doesn't make it any less appealing to an end user who can finally install their favorite non-App Store apps.

Again, I completely respect that there are people that want sideloading. But we're back to my original post in our discussion.

Assuming what you're saying is true (which it isn't for the very nature of "being" which can either be or not be) how can piracy only kinda sorta be a thing?

I'm sure you can acknowledge the difference between a platform with a little piracy and a platform with a lot of piracy.

 

[BaldiMac]

Good luck with that.

Huh? It's not something that I want to see.

 

[AppliedMicro]

I have no idea what any of that has to do with what I was talking about

Very simple:

Personally, my primary issues are developers that may choose to leave the App Store and piracy. For example, if Microsoft chooses to set up their own store, I will have to install their store for work reasons.

What is the real primary issue here?

What is the underlying problem of of you having to download an app from Microsoft's Store?
You stated you need their applications for work.
They can collect data from and about you - but you're obviously OK with that if you use them.

It's the equivalent of having to buy the same thing (that you need) - just from a different retailer.

 

[BaldiMac]

Very simple:

What is the real primary issue here?

What is the underlying problem of of you having to download an app from Microsoft's Store?
You stated you need their applications for work.
They can collect data from and about you - but you're obviously OK with that if you use them.

It's the equivalent of having to buy the same thing (that you need) - just from a different retailer.

Like I said, you're just making up my side of the argument.

 

[Samplasion]

I think it clearly implies that hardly any consumers are demanding alternate app sources on Android.

Then it won't be an issue to have them on iOS as well since "hardly any consumer" would use them... right?

I'm sure you can acknowledge the difference between a platform with a little piracy and a platform with a lot of piracy.

Sure, but you stated:

being a thing and not being a thing are not the only two options

In both cases piracy *is* a thing (what changes is the extent to which it's practiced) so it's unclear what's your point with that faux-logical thing.

 

[BaldiMac]

Then it won't be an issue to have them on iOS as well since "hardly any consumer" would use them... right?

We've already had this part of the conversation. Let's not go in circles.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-working-to-add-support-for-sideloading-and-alternate-app-stores-in-europe.2373448/post-31817409

Sure, but you stated:

In both cases piracy *is* a thing (what changes is the extent to which it's practiced) so it's unclear what's your point with that faux-logical thing.

The point is that you dismissed piracy as a concern simply because piracy already exists. But I can still care about an increase in piracy even if there is already some piracy.

 

[Samplasion]

We've already had this part of the conversation. Let's not go in circles.

Have we? In the post you linked you were talking about sideloading, while in this I replied to you about third party stores.

The point is that you dismissed piracy as a concern simply because piracy already exists. But I can still care about an increase in piracy even if there is already some piracy.

I'm not dismissing privacy itself as a concern. I'm only against using it as a reason why opening up iOS is the root of all evil.

 

[BaldiMac]

Have we? In the post you linked you were talking about sideloading, while in this I replied to you about third party stores.

Sorry. I consider them synonyms for the purposes of this conversation.

I'm not dismissing privacy itself as a concern. I'm only against using it as a reason why opening up iOS is the root of all evil.

I never claimed it was the root of all evil. I just said it was one of my concerns. I've never seen such low piracy on any of the platforms we've ever released to. We associate it with our amazing conversion rate to paid customers on iOS.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Like I said, you're just making up my side of the argument.

Well, given how little an inconvenience it would be to download Microsoft Office from Microsoft instead of the App Store, I fully support the EU regulation - while acknowledging that it makes your customer experience worse. Priorities must be set in politics.

 

[dk001]

Saw this on Ai.
Didn’t realize how much these companies are spending (lobbying) here in the US.

Apple and big tech lobbying fends off U.S. legislative efforts | AppleInsider

US legislative attempts to curb the power of the tech giants have failed, reportedly beaten by the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on lobbyists working for Apple, Amazon, Google, and Meta.

appleinsider.com

 

[BaldiMac]

Saw this on Ai.
Didn’t realize how much these companies are spending (lobbying) here in the US.

Apple and big tech lobbying fends off U.S. legislative efforts | AppleInsider

US legislative attempts to curb the power of the tech giants have failed, reportedly beaten by the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on lobbyists working for Apple, Amazon, Google, and Meta.

appleinsider.com

They amount the spent on lobbying directly correlates to how I'd prioritize them for regulation. Meta (35.6m) and Amazon (34.2m) simply need to be broken up. Then Google (17.8m) which needs to stop favoring their own services in search and stopped from colluding with their competitors that use android. And then Apple (12.8m) needs to stop favoring their own services in a few vertical markets, particularly music.

 

[I7guy]

Saw this on Ai.
Didn’t realize how much these companies are spending (lobbying) here in the US.

Apple and big tech lobbying fends off U.S. legislative efforts | AppleInsider

US legislative attempts to curb the power of the tech giants have failed, reportedly beaten by the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on lobbyists working for Apple, Amazon, Google, and Meta.

appleinsider.com

Lobbies are the antidote for bad government regulations. Where you find lobbyists you find bad regulations.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Not all government regulation is bad. Some is very good.

 

[JeMeCasse]

I'm glad the EU regulator has some teeth. Smartphones are computers in our pockets. We live our lives through them. And the market is a duopoly. It needs regulation. If you don't fancy sideloading, don't.

 

[I7guy]

I'm glad the EU regulator has some teeth. Smartphones are computers in our pockets. We live our lives through them. And the market is a duopoly. It needs regulation. If you don't fancy sideloading, don't.

Or buy the device that meets your requirements.

 

[I7guy]

Not all government regulation is bad. Some is very good.

Yes, some are good and some are bad. What we believe are are good and bad will no doubt be different lists. But I tend to support legislation that protects our air, food, water, heath and finances.

I tend to disagree with legislation that makes app stores into public utilities, for example.

 

[arkhanjel]

Thankfully Apple is a multi-trillion dollar company, so funding for these repair centers should be affordable for them.

Just because they can doesn't mean they should. They already have tons of customers that go in for "fixes" because they barely understand how to use their devices as is. Now add to that the "I know better than Apple" idiots? Good luck making an appointment for something that truly went wrong with a device for a legit reason. Yeah, I get the people that are "my device, my choice" blah, blah, blah. Those same people are the first in line to blame Apple for something they themselves screwed up and want Apple to fix it free of charge.