Apple 'world's fastest' Claim...

[ionas]

about that "windows" and 64bit discussion

about that "windows" and 64bit discussion

1. intel supports 36bit extentions for a long time now, as does windows 2000 afaik (and if only the advanced server version, who cares, more about that below), maybe even winnt 4.

2. windows is windows - there are about 4 "groups" of windows i would like to categorize. (i ll leave out mobile, windows ce, pocket pc, tablet pc blah)

1. windows 1, 2, 3+

2. windows 95, 98, me

3. windows nt 4 (i just left out 3.5 that is just strange, dont know much about it anyway)

4. windows 2000/xp, normal, home, professional, adnavned server, data center, media center whatever.

the forth group is one complex with different "modules" (more ram, more cpu, more gui features, more admin features, more network features, whatever) but it is essentially the same. means:

windows - as we know it - supports 64gb of ram - but thats the max - there is no more imho (maybe clustered windows - but that doesnt really count - btw can the powermacs theoretically adress 2 times 64bit of ram? (2^64)?

bye

 

[Sun Baked]

The solution is simple Worlds fastest personal computer *



*according to blah blah texsted in etc.*

Worlds fastest Mac

then you can get rid of the disclaimers.

 

[moebus]

On the Mac, its not all about speed. It's about the experience and lifestyle that goes along with owning a Macintosh. I am personally growing tired of the Mac vs. PC argument. It has become so over-done, its too moot to even consider anymore. I feel if you wish to be different, set apart from everyone else, you want dependablilty instead of speed and you thrive on creative spirit and good taste in design, buy a Mac. If you are truly indifferent, buy what ever you want, but please, just stop the bad mouthing and ill-informed cheap talk about the Mac. If you don't like us, just ignore us. What have we done? If you like Windows, good for you. Buy what you like and what you feel is you. I will always be a Mac user and that is my choice.

 

[Kabeyun]

"World's Fastest Personal Computer"

Forgive me if someone else said this already, but...
...if it "just edges out" the competition, isn't it still the world's fastest?

-K

 

[ingenious]

its nice to see that dell is worried about apples competition. BTW, dell could never produce evidence to back up their claims like apple did, but the BBB just took their side from what ive read.

 

[ingenious]

Worlds fastest Mac

then you can get rid of the disclaimers.

where's the excitement for the PC users to switch over to mac then?

 

[laserbeahm]

I think Apple should report Dell to the BBB. Dell's slogan, "Easy as Dell" Simply isn't true. If you ask me, there isn't anything easy about Dell. I think, and I'm sure that Apple would agree with me, that this message is misleading to consumers and should be stopped. Compared to a Macintosh, is it easy to go online with a Dell? Is it easy seamlessly connect to a wireless network with a Dell? No, it isn't. I think it really would be something if Apple put them in their place.

 

[jsw]

I think Apple should report Dell to the BBB. Dell's slogan, "Easy as Dell" Simply isn't true.

Well, now, they don't say it's easy, or the world's easiest-to-use computer. They just say "Easy as Dell". As in, "was it easy to drag yourself over a mile of broken glass using only your lips?" "easy as dell!"

 

[sethypoo]

Does this mean new G5s on Tuesday? 😀

Sorry, couldn't resist...

I have 4 things for you to do:
1. Quit Safari
2. Quit all open programs
3. Turn off your computer
4. Walk away, and don't come back to Mac Rumors to make pointless posts!

No, just kidding. I think Dell's just jealous.
😱 😉 😛

 

[ClimbingTheLog]

Sombody call the Wambulance!

The BBB? Please, if Dell had any sack they'd file a complaint with the FTC. They didn't, so let's call it like it is - they don't have a leg to stand on. They got their feelings hurt.

The BBB is being political, trying to be diplomatic in the situation. Really this just makes Dell look like a whiney bitch - waaaaah.

Sombody call the Wambulance!

 

[isus]

i just made a little update over at www.onlyinkenya.com

it's just marketing in the end... sure, the g5 might be the fastest cpu around, but there are too many people saying "oh apple lied and they are horrible". lots of marketing campaigns are really just lies...

you must be able to think for yourself, regardless of the claim

 

[0 and A ai]

Worlds fastest Mac

nice avatar. 😉

 

[GFLPraxis]

Easy as Dell = Easy as being tortured to death in front of a blue screen while Tech Support laughs maniacally...

 

[sethypoo]

Bah. WHATEVER!!

My thoughts exactly.

🙂 🙄 😀

 

[massimom]

Let's be Fair!

I have a dual 1.8 G5 with 3 gigs of ram and 2 160gig hard drives. I love the beast to death but I have to be fair. My 3.4 gig P4 with 2 gigs of ram and two 160s in Raid0,(which I have built myself without all the crap from Dell or others), kicks the 5G's butt in a major way on 99% of the applications I run. I have always thought the Apple's claim was kind of silly when they said it was the fastest personal computer on earth. We could say it is the coolest looking, fun to use PC but definately not the fastest. Now, a 2.6 dual with all the software running at 64 bits with OSX doing its job and maybe we got an argument.

 

[AidenShaw]

64-bits is not faster, often it's slower

Now, a 2.6 dual with all the software running at 64 bits with OSX doing its job and maybe we got an argument.

Most of the time, 64-bit software is not faster than the equivalent 32-bit version. In fact, it's often marginally slower because the larger pointers require more cache space and more memory bandwidth to handle.

The only time you'll find 64-bit software faster is when you need more than 2GiB to 4GiB of RAM - and you have many GiB in your system.

For example, a 64-bit Photoshop using 12 GiB of RAM for the image could be a lot faster than 32-bit Photoshop using scratch files.

Another example, a 64-bit video editor that keeps a 10 GiB clip in memory could be a lot faster than a 32-bit one that has to keep most of the clip on disk.

If you only have 1 or 2 GiB of RAM on your system, there will be no advantage to 64-bit except on some extremely rare (and probably contrived) programs.

 

[tortoise]

the g5 is damn fast, plenty fast enough for almost any professional's needs. the fact that i can load a g5 with 16 gigs of memory TODAY means it's going to be the pants of anything in the wintel world for applications that demand that much memory.

Umm.... I have Opterons with 16 gigs right now on my desk. And I could buy 32 gig systems if I so desired. And unlike the G5, I have a 64-bit OS available right now.

The G5 with MacOS X makes an excellent workstation -- Apple should be marketing the OS package and not the hardware -- but the lack of a true 64-bit OS limits its applications in that role. The G5 can technically hold 16G of RAM, but the 32-bit process space and ABI make it far more limited in practice because the RAM cannot be utilized effectively.

As a more technical note, the underlying architecture of the G5 systems isn't designed for scalable RAM. STREAM benchmark comparisons demonstrate this rather starkly.

 

[tortoise]

Intel x86 uses 36-bit physical memory addressing

64gb on a pure 32bit kernel, you're joking right? please send me a link to a page on microsoft.com that claims this.

x86 hardware actually has 36-bit physical memory addressing, and has for years, if you bother to take advantage of it. I know that both Linux and FreeBSD also support >4Gb RAM on 32-bit Intel.

 

[tortoise]

windows - as we know it - supports 64gb of ram - but thats the max - there is no more imho (maybe clustered windows - but that doesnt really count - btw can the powermacs theoretically adress 2 times 64bit of ram? (2^64)?

No, PPC970 cannot address 64-bits of physical RAM, even in theory. IIRC, the G5 is limited to 36-bits of physical RAM (like Intel) and 48-bits of virtual address space. Even though the address space of 64-bit chips extends seamlessly to a full 64-bits, the hardware (currently) never supports the entire 64-bit range. Opterons are 40-bits physical/48-bits virtual, for a comparison. So nobody is *actually* producing physical hardware capable of 64-bit addressing, just hardware that supports an ISA capable of 64-bit addressing should someone ever produce a processor with that many address lines.

Confused yet?

 

[massimom]

The only time you'll find 64-bit software faster is when you need more than 2GiB to 4GiB of RAM - and you have many GiB in your system.

True. And that makes Apple's comparisons even more misleading. Why put out such silly benchmark testings and claims? Just the simple task of opening a browser and onto CNN and my PC is a considerably faster. Itunes downloads are faster and so is burning Cds and DVDs.

Obviously the 64Bit issue is a moot point and they should stop trying to cash in on that. People choose Apple PCs not beacause they are the fastest. Trying to compare with the fastest P4, with an optimal configuration, is a lost cause for them.

 

[Dunepilot]

isnt that the truth, its the megahetz spin all over again. make a machine that kicks butt in everything not just that Photoshop test.

I think you'll find that the test apple used when the G5 came out included number of other real world 'burn-offs' including number of simultaneous audio tracks/reverbs, mathematical floating-point calculations and video encoding tests.

Respectively these address: audio pros, mathematicians/scientists, film-makers.

These are just three of the major professional markets that Apple is keen to hold onto, and I think their tests underlined that they knew the over-emphasis on Photoshop was losing them credibility. These tests used at the time of the G5 release were very open, and hardly a matter of spin.

 

[peaks]

A little story.

I want to share a true story with all of you.

Back in Jan/Feb, it was time for me to upgrade my computer. I was a diehard Mac user in college, but started using PC's when I began working for money not grades. After a while I progressed towards working in the industry in terms of web hosting and web development. Things took off and before I knew it I had the money and the time to buy a new computer.

Enter Apple.

Being a previous Mac(OS 7.5 was when I left) user, I enjoyed using the Mac and it did and still does hold a fond place in my heart. I was discussing the idea of buying a Mac with a colleague of mine when he became absolutely animate about it. The mere thought of me buying another PC just seemed to piss him off. No big deal, everyone needs a passion. Then I discover this site, while trying to find out if Apple is going to release a "speed bump" upgrade. And I see more of the same blindly animate passion for a computer company. Two things come to mind: this is either one hell of a company, or these people are so insecure about their purchase that they need to rigorously defend the fact that they have spent too much money on not enough computer.

So I follow this for a bit, mainly wanting to see when the speed bump will arrive, and before long crunch time comes - I need a new computer. I like the Mac OSX because of prior UNIX experience - but I have been running a dual boot Linux/Win machine forever so that wasn't a big deal. Went to Best Buy and checked out their G5 on hand, and was pleased with the quality and display. I did make the mistake of dragging something from the dock to the desktop only to watch it disappear in a puff of smoke (nice touch 😡 ) silly me for thinking it would be moved to the desktop.

In the end, the combination of Win/Intel ranting and raving, combined with Apple apparent lack of commitment in hardware sent me to Dell. The moral of this story is that all of your bashing turns people off! This mode of behavior is not unique to Apple either, and if you watch the trend it generally has disturbing results.

Lastly, I don't think the G5 is the fastest desktop, and who cares? Anyone with the money and the aptitude can set up a dual P4/Xeon OC'd and water-cooled for maximum POWER. Or run a cluster for that matter.

I know this is long so let me make one last observation: people do not buy a computer because of the "lifestyle" that supposedly surrounds it. Please read that sentence twice. Now read it again. That whole concept is perhaps one of the dumbest I have ever come across. You could no more make that statement about a refrigerator or microwave. If your looking to find a home, a place where you fit, you'll do better to join a book club. If you want to buy something that will let you fit into a lifestyle - buy a Ferrari or a VW. Apple does have a stereotype - but it's unfair to stereotype.

 

[shen]

the moral is....

I want to share a true story with all of you.

<<<snip>>>

I like the Mac OSX because of prior UNIX experience - but I have been running a dual boot Linux/Win machine forever so that wasn't a big deal. Went to Best Buy and checked out their G5 on hand, and was pleased with the quality and display.

<<<snip>>>

In the end, the combination of Win/Intel ranting and raving, combined with Apple apparent lack of commitment in hardware sent me to Dell. The moral of this story <<<snip>>>

so basically, you have used a good OS, (Linux) and liked the machine quality, and some loud mouths at a rumors site where something like .3% of all Mac user visit, made you pass on a great (better than Linux in many ways, far better than windows in most) OS and great machine and go with Dell.

moral of the story: critical thinking is a weak point for most people. how does it feel to be a member of the general herd?

 

[peaks]

Case in point. Why get defensive - do you work for your money harder than I do?

You have attacked what you perceive as an argument on my part by attacking me personally. Either you are uneducated or prone to wearing your emotions on your sleeve.

Given your wasteful use of meaningless statistics I’d guess both. So here are some statistics:

Last I checked, 95% of computer users on the internet use Windows. So a web designer using a Mac has effectively eliminated the conditions effecting 95% of his target audience. And anyone doing this just to make a point will not and can not be successful. It’s bad business.

 

[benpatient]

peaks, i think you'll find a great community here....of whiners and loonies.


I'm typing on a Dual 1.8 G5 right now, and I wouldn't say for one second that it's head-and-shoulders better than any PC with this kind of price tag...well, not any PC I would build.

that's the thing with me...my boss got me this computer.

my 700 dollar PC at home does most things better or equally...because i built it from scratch.

i don't get all these "blue screens" that all these die hard mac users seem to think windows users get all the time...

i don't get much in the way of system freezes...can't tell you the last time it happened.

i know windows isn't perfect, and there are a TON of things about OS X that i love. I like Rendezvous. I like most things about Aqua (except the "bigness" of it), I like Expose.

I don't like the crappy networking since OS 9 went away.

I don't like the continuing and unexplained "unexpectedly quit"s that my iLife apps keep throwing at me, or when an Mail gets fixed to not CRASH EVERY TIME IT OPENS, it's called an "enhancement" and not a bug-fix.

People say all these point releases of OS X are legitimate, separate versions of the OS and are worth an upgrade price...I say everything before Panther (or maybe 10.2.7) has been a beta release with a price tag. Try installing a new program on 10.0 or 10.1...then try using it.

it's like beating yourself in the face with a metal spike.

anyway, it's a love-hate thing for me, just like windows.

i love how i can, and always have been able to, copy and paste files all over the place. Heck, you can even cut/paste them. What an amazing concept, huh? How about drawing a box to select files...regardless of what "view" you're in?

uh-huh. long ago in PC-world.

Yes, windows needs a better "window management" system, but honestly, the best one i've ever used was in OS 9, not OS X...the double-click springing title bar method is superior...and now unavailable to me.

OS X has better keyboard shortcuts than windows.

windows has keyboards that can "skip tracks" or "load music player" or "go to internet" or "open XXX programs" and all that functionality works without drivers, etc.

iTunes can't show you when minimized what song is playing, and you can't switch to the next song without bringing it up out of the dock.

That's feature-dumb, and WinAmp has carried this ability from before v.2.

anyway, i've ranted again. I really, really want to like my G5. I do much of the time...but it's far from perfect, and in test less manipulated and misconstrued than those used by apple, my 700 dollar PC box comes out on top more often than my G5...

which is a real-world, personal experience situation. It's little stuff...my digital camera transfers 2x faster on the PC, using the same USB cable...why?

every single game i've tried on the G5 is slower than my PC.

Good thing i don't want to play games more at work. i'd go nuts with frustration.

Part of my frustration with apple is their mentality...they have an unwarranted cockiness that comes straight from Steve Jobs...he knew when he approved the "worlds fastest" promotional stuff that, even though it wasn't true, he'd get away with it for the most part.

someone earlier in this thread wrote: "Apple did start taking orders from the public first for the 64-bit desktops, but AMD does seem to be moving a bit quicker on updating the Athlon64 and getting it into notebooks."

this is called an understatement. you can already buy 64 bit AMD laptops. They use radeon 9600 mobile graphics, and they usually have 48-52x CD burners or 4x DVD burners in them.

lots of them are relatively boring to look at, but they aren't about looks. They are about results.

Apple's major problem is that the image is more important for them than the results. This sort of mentality often leads to issues.

example: VW. Probably the worst car you can buy these days...they are relying on their "looks" and their "image" at the expense of the actual car and the service you get with it. Buy a 2003 Jetta and your odds are 1 in 3 that you'll need a rental car for a month while waiting for a new coil pack or a new window or a new transmission.

but man, aren't they CUTE!

dells aren't ugly, guys...they are just boring and plain. apparently 95% of the market is more worried about value than style.

apple is around to cater to the rest.