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Apple 'world's fastest' Claim...

AidenShaw said:
Didn't you know that Linux 64-bit is available, or that Windows 64-bit can be downloaded today for free from http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/downloads/upgrade.asp ?

Did you know that 32-bit Windows supports up to 64 GiB of RAM today?

And, by the way, did you know that (unlike 64-bit Windows) OS X is a 32-bit operating system?

Like 32-bit OS X, it's a fact that 32-bit Windows can support more than 4 GiB of RAM (up to 64 GiB).
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sorry, last time i checked i couldn't run all my windows software on linux. WINE is great, but it's not perfect.

just because you can download it free now, doesn't mean it isn't beta quality (and thus beta priced), and that it won't cost money in the future.

64gb on a pure 32bit kernel, you're joking right? please send me a link to a page on microsoft.com that claims this.
 
1macker1 said:
If it's not true then they shouldn't be saying it.
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Yeah. They shouldn't lower themselves to Micrapsoft and Inhell's level of false propoganda.🙄

I say f*ck it, paybacks' a beeyatch and fight fire with fire.

Let Apple re-run the campaign when we have 3Ghz G5's in the next 6 months while Intel is still banging it's head on it's 3.xGhz cieling and all they can do about it is re-name their processors. 😛
 
omnivector said:
64gb on a pure 32bit kernel, you're joking right? please send me a link to a page on microsoft.com that claims this.
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Not joking at all

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/features/compareeditions.mspx

"Both the 32-bit version of Datacenter Edition and the 64-bit version of Enterprise Edition support up to 64 GB RAM."


http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/features/highlights.mspx#512ram

"Designed for demanding enterprise applications, Windows Server 2003, Enterprise Edition supports new systems with up to 32 gigabytes (GB) of RAM."

"Designed for mission critical applications, the 32-bit version of Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition supports up to 64 gigabyte (GB) of RAM on x86-based computers."
 
AidenShaw said:
"Designed for demanding enterprise applications, Windows Server 2003, Enterprise Edition supports new systems with up to 32 gigabytes (GB) of RAM."

"Designed for mission critical applications, the 32-bit version of Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition supports up to 64 gigabyte (GB) of RAM on x86-based computers."
Click to expand...

While technically true, I think it's a little misleading to have phrased things the way you did, as if all of the Windows line was capable of addressing memory that way. It's two specific versions, both of which likely cost more than a consumer license, and so it's not the same market as what we're talking about.

I do concede, however, that Windows can address more than 4GB in 32-bit mode, though, unless someone else shows why this isn't true.
 
AidenShaw said:
Not joking at all

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/features/compareeditions.mspx

"Both the 32-bit version of Datacenter Edition and the 64-bit version of Enterprise Edition support up to 64 GB RAM."


http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/features/highlights.mspx#512ram

"Designed for demanding enterprise applications, Windows Server 2003, Enterprise Edition supports new systems with up to 32 gigabytes (GB) of RAM."

"Designed for mission critical applications, the 32-bit version of Windows Server 2003, Datacenter Edition supports up to 64 gigabyte (GB) of RAM on x86-based computers."
Click to expand...

Remember that is the Windows Server 2003 meaning that it could be a cluster of computers, which could inturn give you 64 GB or you forgot to mention 512 GB of RAM that is accesible. This is not in one computer, 32 bit processors can only access 4 GB of ram per processor. So that is a number of processors. A 64 bit chip can access up to right now 16 GB and from what i read it can be a lot more than that, there just isn't the RAM chips yet in the large sizes yet.
 
thatwendigo said:
Funny how there's never a direct quotation, citation, or graph you can show us, DHM. For all we know, you're completely fabricating this, or (what I consider more likely, given your track record) absolutely and completely misunderstanding and misrepresenting something that you think you read.
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I have a copy of the MacWorld issue to which he is referring. Private message me with your e-mail address and I will e-mail you a scanned copy of the entire article. DHM is correct...even MacWorld had to concede that the G5 was bested by the AlienWare system on the majority of benchmarks.
 
Wrong, it's 64 GiB in a single computer

djbahdow01 said:
Remember that is the Windows Server 2003 meaning that it could be a cluster of computers, which could inturn give you 64 GB or you forgot to mention 512 GB of RAM that is accesible. This is not in one computer, 32 bit processors can only access 4 GB of ram per processor.
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No, this is Windows 32-bit on a single computer accessing up to 64 GiB of RAM. It's not the sum of the memories in a cluster (obviously, since the sum is essentially unbounded).


First, on the hardware side - the P4 and Xeons have 36-bit physical addressing for support of up to 64 GiB:

http://developer.intel.com/design/xeon/datashts/252135.htm

Enables system support of up to 64 GB of physical memory


The CPU supports 64 GiB, as does the chipset:

http://developer.intel.com/design/chipsets/linecard/svr_wkstn.htm

E7505 Max Mem 16 GB

http://www.broadcom.com/products/product.php?product_id=GC-LE

The GC-LE is capable of supporting up to 16GB of main memory at speeds up to 4.2 Gbps of memory bandwidth.

http://www.broadcom.com/products/product.php?product_id=GC-HE

The GC-HE is capable of supporting up to 64GB of main memory at speeds up to 6.4 Gbps of memory bandwidth.


The motherboard supports more than 4 GiB:

http://developer.intel.com/design/servers/se7501hg2/index.htm?iid=ipp_srvr_mthrbds+se7501hg2_srvr&

Support for up to 12 GB of registered ECC DDR266 memory through six DIMM sockets


The systems support more than 4 GiB:

http://www.hp.com/workstations/ia32/xw8000/specs.html

Up to 12 GB* of Registered ECC PC2100 DDR-266 memory (6 DIMMs in 3 pairs, dual-channel architecture)

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantdl380/index.html

12GB of 2-way interleaved PC2100 DDR SDRAM, with Online Spare Memory and Advanced ECC capabilities

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantdl740/index.html

Advanced Memory Protection Hot Plug RAID Memory (Front Access)

RAM Std/Max Addressable (Total) 4GB/64GB (80GB)

The 80GiB config contains an extra 16GiB bank used as hot-swap RAID - in case of a failure of a DIMM the system keeps running, and you can replace the DIMM while the system is up. Cool stuff, see http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantdl740/benefits.html for more info on hot-swap RAM.
 
Datacenter windows, etc.

Those versions of windows that can address large amounts of RAM do exist. They are not "Windows" in the sense of Windows that you can go and buy in a shop. Try it, ask a computer shop to get you a computer with Windows 2003 Server Enterprise Edition or Datacenter Edition, see what they say. 🙂

A 32 bit address space allows for a maximum range of about 4 billion possible addresses. This does _not_ have to equate to maximum physical RAM - it's the maximum address space for a process. Because each process running in Windows (or any modern OS) has it's own address space, you can have a lot of processes each with a full 32 bits of address space. On windows, the usable address space is in fact 2GB in standard versions, and 3GB for "enterprise" versions.

Don't go crazy, but Windows (NT) was available in 64 bit flavor for the DEC Alpha years ago. It was canned in favor of IA-64 (didn't that go well 🙂 )

On the G5, it is not especially important for Apple to have a full blown 64 bit OS, since the G5 will run 32 bit and 64 bit code equally well. There is no magical speed advantage to being 64 bit on the G5.

-----

For practical purposes, the G5 is the best professional quality box you can buy. I know that you can buy or build a faster PC for less, but you don't get the exceptional industrial design, and you don't get OSX and all the cool stuff that comes with it.

Do you buy a computer for what it is or what you can do with it?
 
Dahl said:
Yeah, let's see Apple make a G5 that leaves no doubt.
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this will only happen, once they stop their politics of waiting until the "ghz difference" between machines "is correct". if they have (for example) a 4 ghz g5 processor, but only 1000 procs, then they could say "the world's fastest"... and then sell 2.5 or 2.2 ghz als entry level machines.
 
Good points

B!nej said:
Those versions of windows that can address large amounts of RAM do exist. They are not "Windows" in the sense of Windows that you can go and buy in a shop. Try it, ask a computer shop to get you a computer with Windows 2003 Server Enterprise Edition or Datacenter Edition, see what they say. 🙂
Click to expand...


Good post, except that the Dell store has the simple option for Enterprise Server - e.g. http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&oc=PE1750PAD&s=biz


PowerEdge 1750:
PowerEdge 1750, Intel Xeon 2.4GHz w/512K Cache, 533MHz Front Side Bus 175245 [221-2097] 1

Operating System(s):
Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition with 25 Client Licenses W2K3ENT [420-2966] 11


Your "Computer Shop" probably doesn't have any x86 boxes that can hold that much memory, so no surprise that they might not have the O/S that enables it.

Fry's Outpost.com has Enterprise for sale though....
 
Clarification: Windows 64-bit for Alpha never released, only 32-bit

B!nej said:
Don't go crazy, but Windows (NT) was available in 64 bit flavor for the DEC Alpha years ago.
Click to expand...


The released versions of Windows NT for Alpha (starting with NT 3.1 in 1993) were 32-bit O/S on a 64-bit CPU (just like OS X).

Windows 2000 64-bit for Alpha was part of the public beta testing program, but Compaq/Microsoft discontinued Alpha support during the field test. The 64-bit for Alpha product never shipped.
 
Oh yes, the "G5 Extreme Edition" !!!

redAPPLE said:
this will only happen, once they stop their politics of waiting until the "ghz difference" between machines "is correct". if they have (for example) a 4 ghz g5 processor, but only 1000 procs, then they could say "the world's fastest"... and then sell 2.5 or 2.2 ghz als entry level machines.
Click to expand...
 
Mr.Hey said:
The G5s are what Apple claims and more they just need optimization --ITS A BRAN NEW CHIP PEOPLE!. 😉 Thanks in part to IBMs new compilers that will help harness the power of 970s. 🙂
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I think the other part of the complaint was that they were optimizing the hell out of the G5's and then "unoptimizing" the hell out of the competing workstations. I recall Apple somehow managing to get some terrible benchmarks for the systems they were competing with. I dunno, but to me if you have to do that, it's probably unethical.
 
It's all irrelevant now

The G5's did turn out to be the fastest on certain comparative tests but no matter, the IBM chips will just get better and better and at some point the G-series will be the fastest... and Apple won't have to say a thing. This last year PC World and other mags have done nothing but rave about Apple product and that will continue to be the case as Apple's line just grows into untouchably awesome (if it isn't already!) in which case Apple won't need to resort to hyperbole.
And 64 bit Windows won't be on the personal desktop anytime soon while Apple's can't be too far off. Altogether the complaints about this marketing are hypocritical on a good day, just plain bad sportsmanship on a bad one, since Dell et al. have made similarly exaggerated claims in the past as well. And, of course, it would have to be Dell complaining. It is so in character with the lack luster company that Dell is to be 'so snippy' (thank's for that one Al). Mickey D. has never produced a noteworthy item, never will and this new complaint is surely the last resort of an intellectually sub-performing CEO! Mick, you are at least maintaining your outstanding ability to be mediocre... one of the few in all history to do so and make such a fortune as you have. In that respect you are an unqualified over-achiever!
 
Windows XP 64-bit software and hardware already available

rjwill246 said:
And 64 bit Windows won't be on the personal desktop anytime soon while Apple's can't be too far off.
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Boy, this is wishful thinking. Desktop 64-bit AMD systems are already shipping at under $1000 dollars. Microsoft has the Windows XP 64-bit O/S test version available for free download. Final release is scheduled for the summer timeframe. Note that this is the already shipping Windows XP 64-bit for Itanium, just recompiled for x86-64.

Where's Apple? Not a word about 64-bit, not even to the developer community. Are there any "how to rewrite your code for 64-bit Mac OS X" sessions scheduled for WWDC?

Do you really think Apple's going to surprise folks at WWDC by releasing a full 64-bit version of OS X? The only 64-bit surprise that might come from WWDC would be if Apple *doesn't* start to discuss their roadmap to 64-bit.


HP Pavilion Athlon 64 system - $720

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/s...s_name=a450e_series&series_index=0&catLevel=2

HP Presario Athlon 64 system - $970

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/s...s_name=8000Z_series&series_index=0&catLevel=2

Windows XP 64-bit Extended download - free

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/downloads/upgrade.asp

Windows XP 64-bit IA64 - buy the released version today

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/howtobuy/default.asp
 
AidenShaw said:
Good post, except that the Dell store has the simple option for Enterprise Server - e.g. http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&oc=PE1750PAD&s=biz


PowerEdge 1750:
PowerEdge 1750, Intel Xeon 2.4GHz w/512K Cache, 533MHz Front Side Bus 175245 [221-2097] 1

Operating System(s):
Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition with 25 Client Licenses W2K3ENT [420-2966] 11


Your "Computer Shop" probably doesn't have any x86 boxes that can hold that much memory, so no surprise that they might not have the O/S that enables it.

Fry's Outpost.com has Enterprise for sale though....
Click to expand...

This is really a tangent, but it should be noted how much you have to pay for the option to use large amounts of RAM in Windows. Enterprise Edition has a MSRP of $3999.00. Just the OS costs more than any desktop computer these days.

And Datacenter Edition? Well, Microsoft won't even quote a price for that, because it's sold only with new hardware. Their OEMs don't quote a price either, because the only systems on which DE is available are somewhere up in the stratosphere of the market where you only buy by talking to a technical sales guy. I mean, I suppose it's possible they're covering up for a policy of throwing Datacenter Edition in for $20 with unlimited client seats... but I kind of doubt it. Rather, I imagine it's priced at a point that would make most medium sized nations give serious thought to whether they really need it.
 
AidenShaw said:
Boy, this is wishful thinking. Desktop 64-bit AMD systems are already shipping at under $1000 dollars. [/i]
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Yep and we've seen them everywhere with tons of software to boot. Gosh, the MS website is loaded with info about the released product. In fact MS is asking everyone using Win XP to switch to its new 64 bit Windows this weekend with extraordinary promotions for the first 2 million upgraders who sign on.
Boy, this is wishful thinking. Apple however has much in place to become fully 64 bit with not too much twiddling of the popular software as well and even if they choose to go slowly on this one, it doesn't involve all the bruhaha of MS, AMD and Intel figuring out how to get YOU all of the current popular product in 64 bit on YOUR desktop. We'll have 1080p, over the air direct to your 1" thick DLP before that happens.
 
I think part of apple's charm is its contant underdog position... 'sides most of the creative sector uses apple stuff, so they're secure in a future hardware/software pool of buyers who are loyal. and on top of that ...i lost my train of thought... you guys just work with what i have above.
 
IA32E runs current software....and 64-bit

rjwill246 said:
Apple however has much in place to become fully 64 bit with not too much twiddling of the popular software as well and even if they choose to go slowly on this one, it doesn't involve all the bruhaha of MS, AMD and Intel figuring out how to get YOU all of the current popular product in 64 bit on YOUR desktop.
Click to expand...

Like the PPC970, the IA32E chips (the Intel and AMD 64-bit extended chips) can run:

  1. existing 32-bit applications and 32-bit operating systems at full speed
  2. existing 32-bit applications on 64-bit operating systems at full speed
  3. new 64-bit applications on 64-bit operating systems

Unlike Apple, however, bullets #2 and #3 are here today.

There won't be any need to get "popular product" in 64-bits - only those apps that need 64-bit addressing will need to be changed.
 
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