Apple 'world's fastest' Claim...

[ryanw]

What?? This is crap. If we dominate - we should let it be know.

Well dude, sorry, but a DUAL PowerMac G5 is not faster than an 8way AMD Opteron. Sure, it's faster than an equivilent DUAL processor machine, but the PC world has larger machines available to them than the Mac world. No matter how much I love Apple and OSX, it's the truth.

I still wish Apple would like up with IBM to OEM OSX for IBM's higher end 16 processor Power4 machines. Anyone here try to hack a recent pSeries IBM PowerPC machine and put OSX on it LATELY? I know it's been done in the past with old MacOS, but has anyone done it with OSX?

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

I don't think they have the story on theor web site, this is all I could find.

http://www.macworld.com/2003/12/magazine/december2003/

I have the issue. G5 lost 4 of 6 real world tests.(Word, Quake III, Premier (not a fair test since FCP is not on a PC to compare) and MP3 encoding) he Mac won in Photoshop and MPEG-2 encoding.

Thanks, its funny too that MacAddict doesnt from the January Issue. I just checked.

 

[Xnet]

Well maybe you should go to Dell's website and double check as i got $2,148 for a Dimension 8300 that is more or less comparable to the 20" iMac for $2,199.00
Just did the test right now 'cause I didn't want to believe you. And there you are. And yes, I didn't forget the screen, or the software or the memory...

No one is a magician. If you want something good, you'll have to pay for it. If it is a Car a Computer or anything else. That's the way it has always been. Or do you think Michael Dull or Bill Hates gonna throw their products at you for free 'cause the two got enough money allready?

Sorry, didn't mean to bash that much but this price comparraison statement just made me a bit angry (as it always does). So no offense OK? 😉

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http://homepage.mac.com/nuber

none taken
But a 3.4 GHz P4 will blow the pants off an iMac, not to mention the iMac has a terrible graphics card. The following is a rather high-end Dell with no monitor, you could get a 3 or a 2.8 with a smaller drive for A LOT less. Hence Apple is way over priced.

Remember that the G4 is not fast at all - so I'm not sure what you are saying is comparable to the iMac - I hope you dont mean the 3.4 GHz p4

heres the price from the other day at Dell
Dell Dimension XPS
Pentium 4 3.4 GHz w/800 MHz FSB
MS Windows XP Professional
Limited 1 Year At-Home Service
2 GB DDR SDRAM@400 MHz
128 MB ATI Raseon 9800 Pro w/TV out
Sound Blaster Audigy w/Dolby 5.1 and Firewire
Dell Media Experience
250GB Serial ATA 7200 RPM
48x CD-RW / DVD-ROM
RecordNow!
3.5 Floppy Drive
Intel PRO 1000 Ethernet
Word Perfect / Money
Dell Picture Studio
Free Turbo Tax

$2,099
ships 4/1/04

 

[omnivector]

sigh. one of these speed threads again.

the g5 is damn fast, plenty fast enough for almost any professional's needs. the fact that i can load a g5 with 16 gigs of memory TODAY means it's going to be the pants of anything in the wintel world for applications that demand that much memory.

the opterons are 64bit, but they have no 64bit os to go with it that supports >4gb of memory right now unless i'm mistaken.

even regardless of all that, the speed difference between a g5 and a dual xeon/opteron is negligable. you buy a system based on the operating system. if you like mac, you go with mac. if you like windows, you go with x86. it's that simple. raw speed will not switch or impress ANYONE unless one of the two skyrockets ahead in performance to the point that it's 2-3 times faster or even more.

 

[nubero]

none taken
But a 3.4 GHz P4 will blow the pants off an iMac, not to mention the iMac has a terrible graphics card. The following is a rather high-end Dell with no monitor, you could get a 3 or a 2.8 with a smaller drive for A LOT less. Hence Apple is way over priced.

Remember that the G4 is not fast at all - so I'm not sure what you are saying is comparable to the iMac - I hope you dont mean the 3.4 GHz p4

heres the price from the other day at Dell
Dell Dimension XPS
Pentium 4 3.4 GHz w/800 MHz FSB
MS Windows XP Professional
Limited 1 Year At-Home Service
2 GB DDR SDRAM@400 MHz
128 MB ATI Raseon 9800 Pro w/TV out
Sound Blaster Audigy w/Dolby 5.1 and Firewire
Dell Media Experience
250GB Serial ATA 7200 RPM
48x CD-RW / DVD-ROM
RecordNow!
3.5 Floppy Drive
Intel PRO 1000 Ethernet
Word Perfect / Money
Dell Picture Studio
Free Turbo Tax

$2,099
ships 4/1/04

Yep. I had one with a 19.1 Inch Flat Panel Display but much smaller Hard Drive and the preinstalled Graphics Card when I did the test. Now when you include the Display as well in yours, you're gonna be way higher in price... But as someone already said here: the differences are so small and in areas which you really can't compare that it boils down to the OS you would like to see in front of you (and if you have taste, the housing of your computer as well).

But I'm getting out of this thread now as it is turning out to be getting really silly... 🙁

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http://homepage.mac.com/nuber

 

[isus]

oh well, not that much of a loss for apple. the world's fastest pc claim was what, 8 months ago? at the time, it was true, but everybody wanted to say "hey, apple cheated" instead of looking at the facts.

to me, the g5 is fast enough as it is, and when the 3ghz g5's come later this year, then apple can go back to the world's fastest pc slogan.

oh, and let's not forget, with this "you can get an 8-way opteron computer" or whatever, that those are NOT personal computers. those are servers and workstations and nodes.

one other thing to remember: when you go find a dell with a 3.4ghz p4 for thousands less than a powermac, you get what you pay for... buddy of mine bought an ipod at best buy and it failed on him within a few days, because it was a display model, and a return. (hey, it only cost him $180 for a 3g 10gb). so he sent it to apple. within 3 days, he had a brand new ipod.

how often do you think that happens at dell?

 

[Xnet]

Yep. I had one with a 19.1 Inch Flat Panel Display but much smaller Hard Drive and the preinstalled Graphics Card when I did the test. Now when you include the Display as well in yours, you're gonna be way higher in price... But as someone already said here: the differences are so small and in areas which you really can't compare that it boils down to the OS you would like to see in front of you (and if you have taste, the housing of your computer as well).

But I'm getting out of this thread now as it is turning out to be getting really silly... 🙁

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My free Desktop Pictures!
http://homepage.mac.com/nuber

Its really not about the G5s which are fast as hell, but Apples entry line-up which needs help in terms of price / performance.

I dont think Apple is selling as much to the consumer market as it could b/c its prices are too high.

you dont mean criticizing Apple is silly do you?

 

[jsw]

the fact that i can load a g5 with 16 gigs of memory TODAY means it's going to be the pants of anything in the wintel world for applications that demand that much memory.

No offense, since we're on the same side here, and I freely admit potential ignorance about new developments, but I thought the max was 8 GB, today at least.

 

[jsw]

... buddy of mine bought an ipod at best buy and it failed on him within a few days, because it was a display model, and a return. (hey, it only cost him $180 for a 3g 10gb). so he sent it to apple. within 3 days, he had a brand new ipod.

how often do you think that happens at dell?

Never, man. I sent my bum iPod to Dell weeks ago and they have yet to return it. Customer Service acts like they don't even know what I'm talking about.



🙂

 

[nubero]

you dont mean criticizing Apple is silly do you?

No I don't. And I guess you are right as there is always some room for improvement... But I wanted to point out, that it isn't as bad as you said it was in the first message. But looking at the 15" iMac I wonder myself who's gonna buy one of those now... (except maybe for a small office or something like that...).

But the whole iMac line could go into revision this year. Would be a nice time. I don't think we are going to see this case design by this time next year anymore...

Then again the iPod is Apples "iMac" right now. As long as they have a product like that every 3 years or so (a real take off i mean) we shouldn't worry.

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My free Desktop Pictures!
http://homepage.mac.com/nuber

 

[isus]

No offense, since we're on the same side here, and I freely admit potential ignorance about new developments, but I thought the max was 8 GB, today at least.

no, i think corsair has 2gb sticks out there... the 8gb is 8 slots filled with 1gb sticks... so 8 slots filled with the 2gb sticks is 16gb 😛

however, i think it costs several THOUSAND dollars to get all that ram... i think near $8k

 

[AidenShaw]

mistaken, or clueless?

the opterons are 64bit, but they have no 64bit os to go with it that supports >4gb of memory right now unless i'm mistaken.

Didn't you know that Linux 64-bit is available, or that Windows 64-bit can be downloaded today for free from http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/downloads/upgrade.asp ?

Did you know that 32-bit Windows supports up to 64 GiB of RAM today?

And, by the way, did you know that (unlike 64-bit Windows) OS X is a 32-bit operating system?

Like 32-bit OS X, it's a fact that 32-bit Windows can support more than 4 GiB of RAM (up to 64 GiB).

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

Interesting to say the least. looks like Windows is moving away from Intel. looking at the article its all AMD.

 

[h'biki]

Look Apple has the best operating system in the world and good hardware that is RIDICULOUSLY over priced when compared to the competition.

Apple somehow has to pay for the R&D of that 'best operating system in the world' (and all its kickass technology) -- and that's the margin's on the machines.

Most PC manufacturers have bugger all R&D, so they can keep their margin's lower because there are only direct costs involved.

 

[djbahdow01]

Interesting to say the least. looks like Windows is moving away from Intel. looking at the article its all AMD.

Considering right now at the moment AMD is the only company with a consumer 64-bit processor in the WIndows world, 64-bit Windows would only run on an AMD. Intel is way far behind in the chip wars as of right now. Yeah they might have the highest GHz but that doesn't mean anything as they have found out considering they are going to the performance grading system instead now. They have no consumer 64-bit chip meaning no 64-bit windows.

 

[isus]

Didn't you know that Linux 64-bit is available, or that Windows 64-bit can be downloaded today for free from http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/downloads/upgrade.asp ?

Did you know that 32-bit Windows supports up to 64 GiB of RAM today?

And, by the way, did you know that (unlike 64-bit Windows) OS X is a 32-bit operating system?

Like 32-bit OS X, it's a fact that 32-bit Windows can support more than 4 GiB of RAM (up to 64 GiB).

i didn't think it had anything to do with how much ram the os could address; more about how much the chips inside could address.

 

[Eeyore]

Speed isn't everything.

 

[vpalvarez]

The Apple G5 website now states that the Powermac G5 is "one of the fastest computers ever made" Is that a change from the ordinary?

 

[yamabushi]

i didn't think it had anything to do with how much ram the os could address; more about how much the chips inside could address.

Both the OS and hardware have memory address limitations. The number of slots and capacity of memory sticks are the primary limiting factors for current hardware. Mac OS 10.3 can address far more memory than you can squeeze into a Mac today but can only provide up to 4GB for each process.

 

[vpalvarez]

Does anybody know the warrants to the claim that it isn't the fastest. I read the areticle and besides the bit about workstations can't find the warrants.

 

[thatwendigo]

But a 3.4 GHz P4 will blow the pants off an iMac, not to mention the iMac has a terrible graphics card. The following is a rather high-end Dell with no monitor, you could get a 3 or a 2.8 with a smaller drive for A LOT less. Hence Apple is way over priced.

As terrible as Dell's use of integrated graphics with shared memory in the same price point? As terrrible as the 5200 FX that's in the Alienware at the same pirce point?

Yes, in pure CPU tests, a 3.4 P4 will slam the G4 in many things, espcially in single-processor configurations. However, you and many of the people like you are forgetting something about the iMac that isn't in the PC world. The enclosure is less than 11 inches around at the base, and half that high. The footprint is a literal foot, and that's stretching things a little bit, and it only uses one fan. So, if you've got PC systems that use that tight of a space, include one of the best LCDs in the market (since Apple's displays are very highly rated), and still cost in that range, I'd like to see one, prebuilt, from a vendor.

heres the price from the other day at Dell
Dell Dimension XPS
Pentium 4 3.4 GHz w/800 MHz FSB
MS Windows XP Professional
Limited 1 Year At-Home Service
2 GB DDR SDRAM@400 MHz
128 MB ATI Raseon 9800 Pro w/TV out
Sound Blaster Audigy w/Dolby 5.1 and Firewire
Dell Media Experience
250GB Serial ATA 7200 RPM
48x CD-RW / DVD-ROM
RecordNow!
3.5 Floppy Drive
Intel PRO 1000 Ethernet
Word Perfect / Money
Dell Picture Studio
Free Turbo Tax

$2,099
ships 4/1/04

You're going to need more than the basic software to match iLife and the built-in OS tools. That adds cost. Also, as you were so kind as to note, that system has no monitor. Yet more money...

 

[oingoboingo]

dual 3ghz not the fastest.... are you on crack????
simply the fastest personal computer ever no comp.....
but as they always do they ( the wintel community) will try (emphasis on TRY )
to belittle it.... but there is not a pc that will go anywhere nere a 3ghz powermac with this architecture and 1ghz fsb or more....

Might it not be prudent to wait until a 3GHz G5 actually materialises before claiming it will crush all before it? As for the boasting about the G5's FSB speed...you do realize that AMD's Opteron runs its FSB at a 1:1 speed with the core clock speed? If you have a 1.6GHz Opteron, then you have a 1.6GHz FSB speed.

As for the Wintel community trying to belittle the G5, MacWorld did a fairly good job of dispelling Apple's hype in a recent issue. The G5 was beaten by x86 systems in all but a small portion of a broad benchmark suite. The G5 surely is a fast system...but it's not the fastest, no way. Congratulations to the relevant bodies for pulling Apple up on some truly misleading advertising.

Let's re-visit this discussion when Apple actually manages to ship a 3GHz G5, instead of making vague promises 9 months ago, with no subsequent speed increases.

 

[carbonmotion]

The day final cut pro ships for pc, is the day i buy a 3.4 ghz pee four...

i read your guys arguing and i just shake my head... who cares? maybe its faster maybe its slower on certain parts of certain applications... by a few percents here a few percents there. If a movie takes 5 seconds longer to render on one machine then another do you notice? can your brain even have time to register annoyance in that time span? Anyways, I own a Dual 2ghz Athlon MP with a gig of ram and a Radeon 9800XT. Good machine, I built it myself (genius me 😀) except I never use it. In fact it's collecting dust at home. I find that my powerbook alu 15" (although alot slower) does everything more effectively. Most people don't need the bleeding edge, just a good comprehensive all around hardware/software package. Look, the G5 maybe faster than the P4 in some repects and slower in others... so lets just stop these comparisions, they're not going anywhere. ...btw (and i'm totally serious when i say this.) if you believe that you're going to be more productive on a wintel box, then by all means you should score youself one. Don't let your self be tied to apple just because of brand loyalty... I mean for what alot of people do, wintel with linux or windows are probably superior alternatives to osx/apple hardware. *yawn* in the mean time, while you chew on that, I'm going to nap.

 

[uberman42]

The day final cut pro ships for pc, is the day i buy a 3.4 ghz pee four...

i read your guys arguing and i just shake my head... who cares? maybe its faster maybe its slower on certain parts of certain applications... by a few percents here a few percents there. If a movie takes 5 seconds longer to render on one machine then another do you notice? can your brain even have time to register annoyance in that time span? Anyways, I own a Dual 2ghz Athlon MP with a gig of ram and a Radeon 9800XT. Good machine, I built it myself (genius me 😀) except I never use it. In fact it's collecting dust at home. I find that my powerbook alu 15" (although alot slower) does everything more effectively. Most people don't need the bleeding edge, just a good comprehensive all around hardware/software package. Look, the G5 maybe faster than the P4 in some repects and slower in others... so lets just stop these comparisions, they're not going anywhere. ...btw (and i'm totally serious when i say this.) if you believe that you're going to be more productive on a wintel box, then by all means you should score youself one. Don't let your self be tied to apple just because of brand loyalty... I mean for what alot of people do, wintel with linux or windows are probably superior alternatives to osx/apple hardware. *yawn* in the mean time, while you chew on that, I'm going to nap.

Hmmm- you mention not being tied to Apple, but await for Final Cut Pro to be compiled to CISC in order to get a P4 when you can get editing software from Avid http://www.avid.com/products/xpressdv/index.asp 😕? You can actually buy xpressdv and get both the mac and win copy to load into your Athlon and Pbook! As for the five seconds, it counts when you multiply it numerous times for a project. Speed counts when you are in a business that bills by the hour or in a project that is time sensitive. The thing that hurts in OS X is when I am multitasking through multiple apps in a short period of time, the slow window redraw times between apps kills my productivity.

 

[ionas]

st*u all pseudo neoliberal free trade crap associations

you do regulate the market yourself, so st*u,
let ppl do their biz, let governments control some of economy to all our best (if governments are good again ;p) - stop whining, wto, iwf and all the cra**y newcomers.