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Applecare practically voided with any sign of physical damage, even when working 100%

As above, it's a judgement call on the behalf of the genius.

And really... forget it is an ipad for the moment, with any product:

Product leaves factory, passes QA
Product used by customer
Evidence of physical damage due to impact/water ingress/etc
Customer returns with broken product and expects "warranty"


There's nothing to say that the problem WASN'T caused by the damage, and apple (or anyone) don't warrant against that.


Example: i had an iphone 3G-S that had been dropped multiple times. The time that killed it was a short drop onto carpet, which must have disloged the connection to the screen or something. There was no (additional) damage incurred in that drop to the exterior, but the drop killed the phone.

That's not apple's fault.

Look after your stuff!
 
ravenvii said:
But wasn't "plain" AppleCare for iDevices discontinued in favor of AppleCare+?

Please correct me if I'm misinformed.
Click to expand...
Only for iPhone and iPad. AppleCare is still available for Macs, iPods and Apple TV. Regardless of which device is involved, AppleCare does not cover damages, while AppleCare+ does.
 
I'm not expecting anything for accidental user inflicted damage, Applecare or Applecare+ not withstanding. And if they'd offered me repair / replace for fifty bucks I probably would have jumped at the chance - I'm not trying to steal anything from anyone.

I'm happy to take responsibility for my accidental damage - but the charge socket at the other end of the device has stopped operating. This is nothing to do with the physical damage to the device. I thought the charge connector was too fiddly when I got the thing. I thought "that's not the usual Apple style - how long is that thing going to last?".

Now its kaput. As expected. Apple design fault. Will they fix? No.

Apple says, in their words "we can't be sure if the physical damage has caused this".

Well I think they'd better start getting some certainty. Either it caused the fiddly little charger connector socket to fail or it didn't. If it's reasonable to expect that the physical damage did cause the failure - ok - my fault. But if it's not reasonable - then fix my device.

I paid $99 14 months ago for a 2 (I thought 3) year warranty against Apple failures. It failed. Fix it.
 
anilg said:
I'm not expecting anything for accidental user inflicted damage, Applecare or Applecare+ not withstanding. And if they'd offered me repair / replace for fifty bucks I probably would have jumped at the chance - I'm not trying to steal anything from anyone.

I'm happy to take responsibility for my accidental damage - but the charge socket at the other end of the device has stopped operating. This is nothing to do with the physical damage to the device. I thought the charge connector was too fiddly when I got the thing. I thought "that's not the usual Apple style - how long is that thing going to last?".

Now its kaput. As expected. Apple design fault. Will they fix? No.

Apple says, in their words "we can't be sure if the physical damage has caused this".

Well I think they'd better start getting some certainty. Either it caused the fiddly little charger connector socket to fail or it didn't. If it's reasonable to expect that the physical damage did cause the failure - ok - my fault. But if it's not reasonable - then fix my device.

I paid $99 14 months ago for a 2 (I thought 3) year warranty against Apple failures. It failed. Fix it.
Click to expand...

Regardless of whether the physical damage you caused, caused the damage to the socket connector or not, you caused damage which did violate the warranty of the entire product. If you hadn't voided said warranty, they would have to replace without question.

In America, it seems that the Apple Genius' have the ability to decide for themselves whether to replace or repair a device on warranty or not. Perhaps, if you went to another store, you could have a more generous Apple Genius ( or whatever they may be called in your neck of the woods,) to offer said service.
 
silverblack said:
I never said I want Apple to cover any repair actually related to the dent. My original question was, how will Apple handles manufacture defects (using your language) in the future when they see the dent. Say, two months from now, the volume buttons don't work any more. So, the answer I got was, the technician could deem it related to the dent and deny coverage.
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They will of course fix manufacturing defects. The problem is that when something goes wrong, it isn't clear at all whether it is a manufacturing defect. If you have any damage in the future that _could_ be caused by a drop (and it would have to be damage that would have to be latent for a long time and then make the device stop working) is now very suspicious and they might not want to fix it.

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bri1212 said:
Regardless of whether the physical damage you caused, caused the damage to the socket connector or not, you caused damage which did violate the warranty of the entire product. If you hadn't voided said warranty, they would have to replace without question.
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Not really. Every damage is covered unless you caused it. If you mess up your MacBook by spilling nail varnish on the case that you can't get rid off then the internals would be unaffected. Or some bastard scratches the case with a nail - that would look totally ugly but doesn't stop the device from working.
 
APPLECARE+: Number one reason to get this extended warranty. Just in case.

"AppleCare+ for iPad....

Every iPad comes with one year of hardware repair coverage and 90 days of telephone technical support. AppleCare+ for iPad gives you two years of repair coverage and technical support from the original purchase date of your iPad. And it adds coverage for up to two incidents of accidental damage due to handling for your iPad, each subject to a $49 service fee plus applicable tax."
 
Applecare support decided to replace

bri1212 said:
Regardless of whether the physical damage you caused, caused the damage to the socket connector or not, you caused damage which did violate the warranty of the entire product. If you hadn't voided said warranty, they would have to replace without question.
Click to expand...

Dear Brill - situation in US may vary to OZ but I'm just talking basic consumer rights here - like design fault.

If Apple are selling Applecare or Applecare + (whatever) with terms and conditions that say if you smudge your screen we're not helping you anymore then that's their commercial decision (but they'd better keep that quiet or people may stop taking out Applecare).

What happened to our iPad is that after 14 months the fiddly little charge socket stopped working practically bricking the device.

Now Apple want to use non-associated damage as an excuse to avoid making sure their device works as advertised? Is it reasonable to expect to buy a new iPad every 12 months because the old one wore itself out? Perhaps the price point better come down to make that feasible. I didn't know they were so disposable.

To let you all know, though, I followed up with Applecare (as a prior step to sending a letter to Apple Legal). The support person asked me to send photos of the damage and then took a decision to replace the device.

The support person said that the crack was "significant" but took into account my other Apple devices. This leaves me cautious. It seems that it was too hard for Apple to recognise the fault in their device and I feel they have a tendency to act as if they are the authority on whether they need to cover damage without respect to the local consumer laws.

This is not just about Applecare, it's also about expectations of quality in what is a high end expensive purchase.
 
silverblack said:
I never said I want Apple to cover any repair actually related to the dent. My original question was, how will Apple handles manufacture defects (using your language) in the future when they see the dent. Say, two months from now, the volume buttons don't work any more. So, the answer I got was, the technician could deem it related to the dent and deny coverage.
Click to expand...

Key word is COULD. If the two aren't related and it's not major damage they are more likely to ignore it 'this one time'. If its really minor they rather crap it. They know cx are likely to raise a fuss and they will get told to do it anyone by some corp 'customer relations' office so why bug it for something scant

On the phone folks can't see what's up so they are told to speak with the most caution. They are never to say you will get a swap, it will be covered etc. they are to send you to the store for further investigation, blah blah
 
anilg said:
Dear Brill - situation in US may vary to OZ but I'm just talking basic consumer rights here - like design fault.

If Apple are selling Applecare or Applecare + (whatever) with terms and conditions that say if you smudge your screen we're not helping you anymore then that's their commercial decision (but they'd better keep that quiet or people may stop taking out Applecare).

What happened to our iPad is that after 14 months the fiddly little charge socket stopped working practically bricking the device.

Now Apple want to use non-associated damage as an excuse to avoid making sure their device works as advertised? Is it reasonable to expect to buy a new iPad every 12 months because the old one wore itself out? Perhaps the price point better come down to make that feasible. I didn't know they were so disposable.

To let you all know, though, I followed up with Applecare (as a prior step to sending a letter to Apple Legal). The support person asked me to send photos of the damage and then took a decision to replace the device.

The support person said that the crack was "significant" but took into account my other Apple devices. This leaves me cautious. It seems that it was too hard for Apple to recognise the fault in their device and I feel they have a tendency to act as if they are the authority on whether they need to cover damage without respect to the local consumer laws.

This is not just about Applecare, it's also about expectations of quality in what is a high end expensive purchase.
Click to expand...
But you didn't just smudge your screen. You dropped it causing physical damage. At least that was my understanding. That voids the warranty. The Apple support person graciously took into account what kind of customer you are, and allowed an exchange. They did not have to do that according to their warranty.
Now I don't know about consumer law in the OZ, but if you bought a TV from Samsung, and dropped it, causing damage to the corner of the TV, My bet is, they would not fix your power plug problem for free either.
 
anilg said:
This is nothing to do with the physical damage to the device.
Click to expand...

Unless you or apple can prove it to be a design fault or manufacturing defect, that is just speculation.

I'm not saying it IS the cause but as far as evaluating for warranty goes - physical damage = probable cause for broken-ness.

Long and short of it is: It is not in the condition that apple supplied when it passed QA.



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bri1212 said:
But you didn't just smudge your screen. You dropped it causing physical damage. At least that was my understanding. That voids the warranty. The Apple support person graciously took into account what kind of customer you are, and allowed an exchange. They did not have to do that according to their warranty.
Now I don't know about consumer law in the OZ, but if you bought a TV from Samsung, and dropped it, causing damage to the corner of the TV, My bet is, they would not fix your power plug problem for free either.
Click to expand...

Pretty much that.

Replacing stuff with visible physical damage is an act of good faith on behalf of the vendor, not a legal or moral obligation.

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anilg said:
The support person said that the crack was "significant" but took into account my other Apple devices. This leaves me cautious. It seems that it was too hard for Apple to recognise the fault in their device and I feel they have a tendency to act as if they are the authority on whether they need to cover damage without respect to the local consumer laws.

This is not just about Applecare, it's also about expectations of quality in what is a high end expensive purchase.
Click to expand...

Apple ARE the authority on what they tell their service techs to do.

If you disagree with their decision (as with any other vendor), this is what the ACCC is for in Australia. You tell them that you are unhappy with the service and you will be lodging a complaint. Most companies won't want the hassle and if you're seriously heading down that path will attempt to prevent it by negotiating.

Look, i know it sucks, but if you were in their shoes and had people constantly claiming warranty on stuff they broke, you'd get tired of paying out for other people's clumsiness as well. I've been on that side of the blame game...
 
Apple-care was voided by the genius at my apple store (and backed up by his manager) because they said that my macbook pro was full of nicotine and was a health hazard (it had been used exclusively in a smoke free house

Had an independent repair house look at it, and the "nicotine stain" was caused by the failed GPU burning the solder up and staining the rubber on the hinge near the output.

Took legal action to get apple to repair it underw arrenty , got my applecare back as cash, would never buy it again as everything it covers is covered by 6 six years under British law anyway
 
throAU said:
Unless you or apple can prove it to be a design fault or manufacturing defect, that is just speculation...

Replacing stuff with visible physical damage is an act of good faith on behalf of the vendor, not a legal or moral obligation.

Apple ARE the authority on what they tell their service techs to do.

If you disagree with their decision (as with any other vendor), this is what the ACCC is for in Australia...

Look, i know it sucks, but ...
Click to expand...

Look, throAU and bri1212, you guys are not getting it, at all. This is nothing to do with ACCC. Get a grip.

Apple do not have authority to usurp the principle in law that if you sell something on the basis that it works it needs to work or your money back.

I don't care what Apple states will or won't void any contract or insurance I pay for from them that may or may not be called Applecare.

As I already said, if the physical damage caused it, my bad, I pay. If it didn't, fix the device you sold me to work like you said it would.

Now Apple told me "they can't be sure". Well, I'm pretty sure it didn't. In law it's usually on a call of what's reasonable. I feel that when we were checking it out (again) in the shop, it became pretty obvious. The entire thing was all about the socket. The history of that model of socket. How old it was. How it had been phased out now. Etc. The cracking had nothing to do with it and didn't even enter the conversation.

I sympathise with Apple that they need to have a rigourous process to filter out free loaders. I'm relieved I got a replacement because taking them to Fair Trading would've been pretty boring. And, no, it doesn't suck, if it's my fault it's only fair. I'm just dubious that they don't seem to recognise in their business processes that there may be any external authority or principle they have to conform to. It's as if some people think that when you step over the threshold of an Apple store you are no longer standing in Australia. Kinda like the Vatican?

Here's some reading for you: http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/f...hats_new/Warranty_documentation_feedback.page

----------

How did you know the plug on my Samsung TV had a problem?! I'll never get another Samsung TV!
 
anilg said:
Look, throAU and bri1212, you guys are not getting it, at all. This is nothing to do with ACCC. Get a grip.

Apple do not have authority to usurp the principle in law that if you sell something on the basis that it works it needs to work or your money back.

I don't care what Apple states will or won't void any contract or insurance I pay for from them that may or may not be called Applecare.

As I already said, if the physical damage caused it, my bad, I pay. If it didn't, fix the device you sold me to work like you said it would.

Now Apple told me "they can't be sure". Well, I'm pretty sure it didn't. In law it's usually on a call of what's reasonable. I feel that when we were checking it out (again) in the shop, it became pretty obvious. The entire thing was all about the socket. The history of that model of socket. How old it was. How it had been phased out now. Etc. The cracking had nothing to do with it and didn't even enter the conversation.

I sympathise with Apple that they need to have a rigourous process to filter out free loaders. I'm relieved I got a replacement because taking them to Fair Trading would've been pretty boring. And, no, it doesn't suck, if it's my fault it's only fair. I'm just dubious that they don't seem to recognise in their business processes that there may be any external authority or principle they have to conform to. It's as if some people think that when you step over the threshold of an Apple store you are no longer standing in Australia. Kinda like the Vatican?

Here's some reading for you: http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/f...hats_new/Warranty_documentation_feedback.page

----------

How did you know the plug on my Samsung TV had a problem?! I'll never get another Samsung TV!
Click to expand...

Now you're being ridiculous and overly dramatic. This is simply a matter of what are the terms of the agreement THAT YOU ENTERED INTO. Apple is treating you exactly the same as it does for anyone who has physically damaged their device prior to seeking a repair.

Your position is that you have no duty to maintain or care for your device and that accidents happen. Fair enough. But then you go the next step and expect that Apple ignore the terms of their warranty to make an exception for you because you deserve it and because you have somehow determined that it's a "design fault," never mind that there are millions of perfectly fine devices with that same design that aren't similarly "faulty".

You believe it's unreasonable for Apple to suggest that your dropping the device didn't lead to any damage but don't even begin to explain why, you only say that it's not near the crack. Devices don't drop on a single point and stay there. Gravity acts on the entire device and if the fall was sufficient to crack the screen it could also have caused other damage. Your belief doesn't make things true.
 
That's not what I said

poloponies said:
Now you're being ridiculous and overly dramatic.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply poloponies but you mis-state almost my entire position. I'm not being dramatic, I'm merely being blunt because you guys clearly don't understand my argument.

You'd love me to be saying that Apple has to cover my carelessness because it's easy to argue against, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm not going to repeat it again.

Also, if you refer back, you will see that I did take up about 2 sentences of your time explaining why the crack was nothing to do with the socket.

Sorry this has taken so long for you to understand. If you're still not with it perhaps we just leave it there. Thanks for being a listening ear.
 
anilg said:
Thanks for your reply poloponies but you mis-state almost my entire position. I'm not being dramatic, I'm merely being blunt because you guys clearly don't understand my argument.

You'd love me to be saying that Apple has to cover my carelessness because it's easy to argue against, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm not going to repeat it again.

Also, if you refer back, you will see that I did take up about 2 sentences of your time explaining why the crack was nothing to do with the socket.

Sorry this has taken so long for you to understand. If you're still not with it perhaps we just leave it there. Thanks for being a listening ear.
Click to expand...

Eh...I think you just want to argue. We clearly don't understand your argument? No, we DO, we just don't agree so you claim we don't understand. Looks like you're the one taking the easy way out.
 
throAU said:
There's nothing to say that the problem WASN'T caused by the damage, and apple (or anyone) don't warrant against that.
Click to expand...

In Australia we get the benefit of the doubt. Apple needs to show that the defect WAS caused by the physical damage.

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poloponies said:
Now you're being ridiculous and overly dramatic. This is simply a matter of what are the terms of the agreement THAT YOU ENTERED INTO
Click to expand...

Yes but Apple still needs to conform to local consumer law regardless of any agreements.

The ACCC along with various consumer organisations in Europe have already stated that Apple has fraudulently sold AppleCare in jurisdictions which legislate a 2 year warranty by default on expensive goods.
 
Walmart Accidental Insurance

it's only $49 without any deductible

only catch is, there is an allowable repair period meaning you can't walk in and walk out with a replacement iPad like you can at the Apple Store. they make up for this by guaranteeing the repair time to 3 business days. if it exceeds this, they refund the cost of the $49 plan
 
ravenvii said:
Doesn't AppleCare now have this thing where you accidentally damage your iPad and you can have it repaired/replaced for $50?

Yeah, I know, $50, but still.
Click to expand...

$100 for AppleCare PLUS $50 to replace, a mini only costs $330 for example. What a ripoff
 
walmartmartyr said:
$100 for AppleCare PLUS $50 to replace, a mini only costs $330 for example. What a ripoff
Click to expand...
It also extends the warranty to 2 years. And you're kind of right that for a base iPad mini that it may not be worth it. On the other hand how likely is a person likely to drop the device? For some people getting AppleCare+ is a very good idea even on a base iPad mini.
 
Bear said:
It also extends the warranty to 2 years. And you're kind of right that for a base iPad mini that it may not be worth it. On the other hand how likely is a person likely to drop the device? For some people getting AppleCare+ is a very good idea even on a base iPad mini.
Click to expand...

Apple care plus two drops is $197 total.

Each replacement of mini is $219 plus tax for wifi only. Wifi plus cell might be more

And when you sell it a year later to get the next one that Apple Care increases the value.

To me it is a no brainer
 
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