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So fooling around with your families phones for a little while is "testing in detail" no scientist would agree with that, you can not extrapolate conclusive evidence without having tested the devices in many many environments. I highly doubt you were able to take each phone across the country and test the signal and noise levels and how much each area changed in dB levels and record those. I can not believe that you are also able to validate that you are an expert on each devices way of reporting its signal to noise ratio through it's signal indicator bar and how that is coded per device. Finally obviously you cant know what you are talking about since the FCC mandates that all mobile phones and devices with integrated radio transmitter/receivers must have their antennas at the farthest point from the users head...meaning that since this was passed all phones have had their antennas at the bottom of the device not the top!

Well I'm not expert but I'm definitely good enough to know how to take a phone apart and how to identify the antenna, it usually has a large sticker on it with the word ANTENNA on it. In most phones it is on the BACK at the TOP. If you don't believe me, take some phones apart and you'll see. I don't know how old this law is, and I don't know in which countries it is valid, but I'm sure that where I live there is no such law. Older phones with external antennas had their antennas at the top as well by the way. That is the closest you can get to someone's head, phone manufacturers never cared about this. The battery is most often at the bottom, so it doesn't give enough space for the antenna, which is usually therefore behind the screen and the electronics. And I don't have to be an expert and I don't need to know anything about phones to tell you that no one in my proximity has ever had dropped calls anywhere except for tunnels and similar places. So I can say that a dozen of "normal" phones, well-known models from the biggest brands have not had such issues. I'm sure I'm not the only one with phones that have no problems. I'm just telling you what I know for sure, this isn't up to debate. I'm saying that the antenna has never been a problem so far on phones, so I don't think it should be a problem on the "most advanced phone in the world". It's like making a car that has bad wheels.
 
It's at least partly an issue with iOS 4. My iPod touch could run for weeks locked on the table and it was almost impossible to see a drop in battery, but now with iOS 4 (no jailbreak) it drops considerably in just one night. Same with 3GS.
 
I would be so happy if all these people would give back their phones and just piss off to another brand :)

Give me small and innovative Apple back... this popularity brought in a lot of whiners and "show" only users.
 
Hasn't anyone mentioned that the antenna on ALL phones must now be at the bottom of the device (furthest away from the users head)?
 
I would be so happy if all these people would give back their phones and just piss off to another brand :)

Give me small and innovative Apple back... this popularity brought in a lot of whiners and "show" only users.

Its gone, its gone forever. Greed has taken over.
Sad though.
 
Am I really the only one who doesn't really see a problem with any of this?

Nope, there are plenty of other fanbois on here that love everything Apple does.

Hell, you'd probably love it if Apple gave you iAIDS.

EDIT: I've also decided that Jobs should have died a few years ago - he's losing his mind.
 
I would be so happy if all these people would give back their phones and just piss off to another brand :)

Give me small and innovative Apple back... this popularity brought in a lot of whiners and "show" only users.

Yes, Apple is the victim here. While they got more and more popular and dragged in the whiners and "show" only users they did not change at all. :rolleyes:
 
Nopr

Interesting. I think that this "issue" will be cleared up once the dust from the launch settles. IMO I believe people are slightly over-reacting, especially here on macrumors. The few friends and co-workers who happened to get their new iPhones already haven't made a peep about reception. Makes me think it isn't as big of a deal as a lot of people are making it. Just my 2c :apple:

They feel shame. Didn't tell my buddy who told me I was getting a lot of drops on the phone with him.

He didn't know I had the 4 now.

Replaced a thin case with an AT&T Bodyglove.
No more problem.

It's the antenna design. :rolleyes:
 
Those that say this antenna grip issue is a problem have only their lack of experience and knowledge speaking. For example:

1) If you drive a car on the wrong side of the road and you hit a car head on, it is the drivers fault. It is not the car makers fault for not making a car that automatically moves to the proper lane.

If you drive a car on the right side of the road, and it suddenly just stops, it's because there is a problem with the car, not because you are holding the steering wheel wrong.

2) If you use the CD-ROM drive bay for a cup holder, you are misusing the product. As pathetic as that sounds, it has happened.

If you use your phone as a phone, and hold it in the normal fashion in your hand (the same way that Steve Jobs and Apple's marketing materials show it being held) you are not misusing the product.

3) If you grip a cell phone around the antenna and loose a call, it is the users fault. The cell phone maker is not at fault.

If the phone maker places the antenna on the outside, at the location where people naturally hold the phone, and this causes problems with the function of the antenna, this is fundamentally bad usability design. Products should be designed for users, not users for products.

It is easy for naive, spoiled and socially irresponsible people to blame equipment when they are not using the device properly. They just need training and this is what Apple is trying to do. So all you wieners, get some education and give it up!

It is ludicrous, illogical, and socially irresponsible of you to blame users, when the device has not been designed properly. People should not need training on how to hold a phone. Apple needs to learn how people hold phones, and then design them accordingly. So all you fan boys, go learn something about design principles and give it up!

IMO, this alleged antenna issue is so overblown, this smells of a well funded, black PR campaign to trash one of the most successful consumer product launches in decades. Personally, I want to know how many of these "independent bloggers" are paid and on the clock to post this crap to make the iPhone 4 look bad.

It's not overblown, it's just a very big problem. That's what happens when you create a very expensive device, and hype it to the max, only for people to find that it is fundamentally flawed and does not perform it's primary function properly - it's called feedback. A well funded black PR campaign? Are you joking? the vast majority of people complaining are not bloggers with an agenda - they are Apple's own loyal customers. I certainly fall into that category - Apple user for 15 years, and in that time I have bought more than 10 mac desktops, 4 laptops, 4 iPods and 2 iPhones. My first mac was 7200/90 with 8mb RAM.

I hope Apple has a good private investigator team on this to find out where the money is coming from on this one. The publicity of this issue is way too focused and coordinated to have "just happened."

What money? The publicity surrounding this issue didn't "just happen". It is the result of selling approx 2 million very expensive but unreliable iPhones. 2 million pissed off people can generate a lot of publicity and it's only going to get bigger as everyone finally starts to realise that it really is EVERY phone that is affected.

All in all, yours was possibly the most ridiculous post yet on the subject, even if you have a great deal of competition. Congratulations.
 
People can defend Apple all they like, I still love their product design and simplicity compared to the competition and you pay the premium for that. This does not mean you should excuse it when they cock up, you start sounding like disciples whose great messiah can do no wrong...

They are the ones who say "It just works" which is the principal that expanded their empire to the degree it has, people like the interface and simplicity of their product - when it doesn't work, as in the new antenna design (it's proved, stop arguing the point), then non-fanboys (yes, the dirty scum who dared buy an Apple product when they hadn't been using iMac's since the early 90's) do, rightly, complain. Get over it.

Your exclusive little club has been infiltrated by the masses and you have to live with it - Apple wanted this and they have to take the bad with the good, normal, rational people have the right to complain when something they have purchased is flawed. This is consumer power. If Apple had said "we're working on it - bear with us" there would be little fuss, most people are reasonable - when they say "there is no problem, hold the phone different" they get the reaction that has kicked off in the last week or so. Apple got too used to their long term customers hanging on their every word who have, no doubt, already developed a new secret iP4 grip technique being iMailed between their iFriends... :rolleyes:
 
Those that say this antenna grip issue is a problem have only their lack of experience and knowledge speaking. For example:

1) If you drive a car on the wrong side of the road and you hit a car head on, it is the drivers fault. It is not the car makers fault for not making a car that automatically moves to the proper lane.

2) If you use the CD-ROM drive bay for a cup holder, you are misusing the product. As pathetic as that sounds, it has happened.

3) If you grip a cell phone around the antenna and loose a call, it is the users fault. The cell phone maker is not at fault.

It is easy for naive, spoiled and socially irresponsible people to blame equipment when they are not using the device properly. They just need training and this is what Apple is trying to do. So all you wieners, get some education and give it up!

IMO, this alleged antenna issue is so overblown, this smells of a well funded, black PR campaign to trash one of the most successful consumer product launches in decades. Personally, I want to know how many of these "independent bloggers" are paid and on the clock to post this crap to make the iPhone 4 look bad.

I hope Apple has a good private investigator team on this to find out where the money is coming from on this one. The publicity of this issue is way too focused and coordinated to have "just happened."


Wow, how much is Apple paying you?
Spiritlevel has answered this post perfectly but really if you're going to question coordination and focus, why not look at the facts? I'm not one for conspiracy theories but isn't this the first time Apple has released iPhone cases at the same time - ones that just happen to cover the area of issue? As the glass back is apparently so resilient (given the photos I've seen I'd question that too). Its almost as if they're selling the makeshift coating to us for £25! Now I'd be the first in line to question that theory but to be honest considering their stance with this entire issue I'm starting to believe it.
 
What FCC regulation is that???
There's no FCC regulation that states "you must put the antenna on the bottom of the phone", no. But there are regulations regarding radiation, and any phone with a SAR rating higher than the maximum allowed will not get the FCC's approval. 2.0W/kg in the EU, 1.6W/kg in the US.

Since they measure this by examining the upper area of the phone (because that's the one that will be closest to your brain), any phone with the antenna at the top is almost guaranteed to blow the SAR ceiling. So manufacturers have no choice but to get the antenna away from the brain, and there are only two ways of doing that... A) put the antenna at the bottom of the phone, or B) put it on the end of a fishing rod sticking out of the top of the phone.
 
Looking unlikely?

It was launched 5 days ago.

It took a month for the 3.1 coma to be cured.

I sure as hell ain't waiting a month. Rumour was monday/this week. If i wanted an iPod Touch i'd buy an iPod Touch. I'll return it and once/if its fix i'll get one again.
 
Most cars today have bad wheels...

...by 1900 standards. Times change. People change. Most now drive around foot deep ruts and pot holes with their alloy wheel low profile tires.
True. A perfect example of consumers using their money to vote for form over function. They won't stop until wheels are nothing but alloy rims with a layer of thin black tape where the tires used to be, and now car manufacturers have to invent new suspension technology and isolate the cars better from road noise to compensate for the bad wheels.

The iPhone 4 antenna solution is yet another bad compromise in the name of form over function, though in this case I wouldn't say that the consumers started it. They were clearly perfectly happy with their not-so-thin phones before the iPhone arrived. Nobody asked Steve to use the word "thin" 50 times per Keynote, nobody demanded that each new version of a product be thinner than the last... that's a corner he painted himself into.
 
But anger.. really? When cell phone reception issues cause anger to boil over, something is simply wrong. Life is too short.

Very, very true. :)

But, at the same time, it's understandable. Apple is very good at taking boring everyday devices and making people feel passionately about them. So much so that people will queue up for hours, not just to buy a device, but even to preorder them. So much that people will spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars/euros to buy them from another country if not available. So much that people will take photos of the device being taken out of its wrapping and post them online.

If people are that enthusiastic about an everyday device, and then it turns out it's not perfect (or - in this case - there seems to be a fairly basic flaw!) it's not surprising it turns to anger.

If people are passionate about a device's virtues, they're going to be passionate about its flaws as well.

3) If you grip a cell phone around the antenna and loose a call, it is the users fault. The cell phone maker is not at fault.

Sorry, but you have that backwards.

The problem isn't that people are gripping the antenna. The problem is the antenna is in the grip.

Apple put their innovative antenna in precisely the place that many people hold their phones, and it seems to degrade the antenna performance greatly.
 
If I was to guess (and I am guessing), Apple knew there was an issue. There is very little chance that they came up with a new design that they even decided to highlight without knowing the issue.

So the question is, is it really that much of an issue? I don't have an iPhone 4, but by default I hold the phone in exactly the way that I am not supposed to and it worries me slightly that I will have to changetha habit if I am to get a new iPhone. However, if asked whether this is a fundamental flaw that should result in the mass recall of the product, I would argue no.

Nobody suggests that MS recalls it's OS when a critical security flaw is found, instead they expect it to be fixed at some point in the future and take the necessary precautions (eg buy an add-on such as anti-virus software). The fact is, the phone is still useable even when being held in the hand.

If people don't want a phone that works that way then they should buy a different make or model. For early adopters that feel cheated, well that's the pain of being an early adopted: you run the risk of finding out things about the product that you don't like because they have not become public: tough
 
For early adopters that feel cheated, well that's the pain of being an early adopted: you run the risk of finding out things about the product that you don't like because they have not become public: tough

Well I'm amazed anyone buys any new product at all if that was the intended attitude of all manufacturers. I'm the Brand Manager for an international company (Acoustic Energy ltd if anyone's bothered) and we had a problem on one of our newer, more expensive ranges recently - so we stopped production and have replaced/refunded anyone with the problem (bubbling wood veneer). It's expensive to do but it's the right thing to do - I didn't call all our customers idiots by saying there's no problem, I didn't tell them to solve the problem by placing something over the affected area either.

Why are people defending Apple's line of "Hold it differently" when their main selling point is interface, ergonomics and simplicity - if I have to fight off millions of years of human evolution by holding my phone in an un-natural, unstable, awkward way I would definitely consider that a legitimate problem. I didn't buy a cheapo phone, I bought the most expensive mass market phone available so I wouldn't have to settle for second-rate buggy crap. The rest of the phone is great - Apple denying a problem altogether is frankly insulting. People defending Apple's stance are either brainwashed or don't mind paying over the odds for flawed product, I have a load of speakers with bubbling veneer I can do you for double the price if you're interested?
 
Several possibilities. You might not be pressing exactly the right spot. You could be in an area with a very strong cellular signal (1000's of times stronger than needed for 5 bars). You could have very dry hands. There are also 2 different 3G cellular bands the iPhone 4 could use.

I myself only see the issue in certain locations with have a weak 5 bars, and moisten my palm, or use a coin, if I want to make sure I can show off the effect in those locations.

Re-read your post and see if you don't laugh just a little. You are clearly a reasonable, intelligent, and helpful persons. The length you had to go to in order to duplicate this problem is astonishing.

Were there any locations that you picked up the phone, held it normally, and were unable to make a phone call? (presuming adequate cell service exists)
 
Re-read your post and see if you don't laugh just a little. You are clearly a reasonable, intelligent, and helpful persons. The length you had to go to in order to duplicate this problem is astonishing.

Were there any locations that you picked up the phone, held it normally, and were unable to make a phone call? (presuming adequate cell service exists)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzn8QhrYIvI
Yes, I'm touching the spot intentionally but this area gets bridged when I hold the phone to browse the internet. Sometimes when I make a phone call as well, but not as frequently.
 
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