Apple's Ability to Hire Foreign Workers May Be Impacted by Trump Overhaul of Work-Visa Programs

[Snoopy4]

You are full of it! Get your facts straight... and we all came from Africa... please try to grasp a concept of first settlers / Indigenous people, the first humans to inhabit a certain area. In this case they are called Native Americans which crossed the Bering straight before it was actually formed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States

Uh...where was the Bering Strait connected too? Oh yeah, um....

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/where-native-americans-come

 

[MistrSynistr]

It's all ok because #maga and media bias, right?

lol. You'll be eating crow soon when everything comes out about Hillary and her cronies. Gon b glorious, but keep trying to gaslight uninformed.

 

[tgara]

In the very end Trump will not be able to continue this and lose all the legal battles over it.

Not so sure about this. The President has a lot of power in the immigration field, as well as in national security, the latter of which forms the foundation for the order. Despite the public hysteria, my guess is that the courts will give him a wide berth on this issue. Just look at the injunction over the weekend by the judge in Brooklyn. She did not (and could not) reverse the EO, all she did was say that some individuals arriving here cannot be shipped back to their own countries. Result is that they are now detained here in the US.

 

[michaelsviews]

I have worked in IT for over 20 years. I have always felt it was ridiculous watching the rampant use of foreign contractors. One big reason is the loss of intellectual property/working knowledge when those workers go home. Even worse is when American citizens train their h1b replacements which happens all the time. All companies are trying to cut admin costs and inevitably contractors and outsourcing come into play.

I can already predict the anti Trump responses in this thread. But I bet most of them have never lost their job to a foreign contractor and to rub salt in the wound had to train that contractor as you left. Especially when you know multiple Americans that have skills and are looking for the same kind of work but can't get in.

I don't agree with everything that is being changed but I do think portions are long overdue for changes.

I work in IT for Government and can say that Deloitte is making millions. Oh wait a minute Tim has a MAJOR deal with Deloitte. Supposedly these consultants have experience

I understand what Trumps doing and he spoke of this on the campaign trail over and over. It should come of no surprise to anyone. Its going to get worse before it gets better. Supposedly the countries that were not targeted are the ones with a Trump hotel.

 

[neutralguy]

I think you are missing the point of the counterarguments. Most people here favor a program for bringing in ESSENTIAL foreign talent. They are just not interested in a program that is used primarily to bring in CHEAPER talent to replace existing talent. And that's mostly what H1-B has become today.

To simplify in computer language: bring the foreign software engineers, don't bring the software programmers.
[doublepost=1485824626][/doublepost]

I don't think you read my post and just repeated the old line. There is absolutely the talent available locally but you can get a H1-B worker for 30-40% less. I think you will notice I have specifically mentioned there has been some very good foreign talent but when 80+% is foreign and exceptional local talent has been "played off" to make way for foreign talent, there is substantial abuse in the system.

I agree on this completely. The bottom line is this: a country has a right to shutdown a visa program as and when needed.
[doublepost=1485824971][/doublepost]

Where do I say that?
I only ask whether hiring somebody shouldn't be based on qualifications?

Also, I mention in another post that I have no problem with America first, IF the qualifications are equal.

From what I see that is not alway the case.

I'll give you that a lot of companies may work around the problem, as it is faster and possibly cheaper to get non Americans. I am talking about higher level jobs.

Not smart by any nation to exclude worldwide talent.

If you didn't, I apologize. I came to this country on H1 when dot com was booming. I have first hand experience of how the visa program is abused. And let me tell you about qualifications: most of the resume that you see are filled with lies. I have seen people who write code while being on the phone with their spouses who tells them what to write. It's horribly abused. There are also body shops who also ask their h1 people to hand over passports!
[doublepost=1485825586][/doublepost]

What would be amusing is if the regulations stated that an H1B worker must be paid as much as the prevailing wage in the MSA that your CEO lives in.

That would get rid of the cost delta right there.

That should be the right approach. In fact Pres Trump wants to hike the h1 minimum salary. That would hopefully get rid of abuse.

 

[RogueWarrior65]

Maybe the hiring of foreign workers is why Apple's products post-Steve are less than stellar.

 

[MasterRyu2011]

Apple, we'll let you hire more foreign workers in America if you bring back iphone manufacturing to America.

 

[usarioclave]

They did nothing illegal but they were abusing the intent behind H1-B.

Well, they were taking advantage of the fact that when the rules were written researching compliance was difficult. Today things are different, but really, the "job posting" thing is irrelevant. People use H1Bs because they're cheaper. If they aren't cheaper H1Bs will be used for the correct reason: you have knowledge that we need and are willing to pay a premium for.

 

[0388631]

I very much doubt Apple is hiring foreign engineers from the countries affected. I very much believe Apple hires people from south Asian countries, but not the middle east, at least in large droves. Apple and other major tech love abusing the H1-B system by stating there's not enough talent in the US, which is BS. Apple and Co. love keeping salaries in engineering fields stagnant while hiring cheap talent who're more than willing to take on a low salary to send much needed money back home while living in squalor with 10 flatmates.

 

[Thunderhawks]

If you didn't, I apologize. I came to this country on H1 when dot com was booming. I have first hand experience of how the visa program is abused. And let me tell you about qualifications: most of the resume that you see are filled with lies. I have seen people who write code while being on the phone with their spouses who tells them what to write. It's horribly abused. There are also body shops who also ask their h1 people to hand over passports!

I got here on an L1 many years ago as a long time employee of a European firm. Ease of communication, product knowledge, multiple fields of expertise and language fluency made that an easy choice. I actually had to learn
American English and the US life style and for the first 3 months my school English was just enough not to make a total fool out of myself. Since it was a US startup having as many "home grown" employees in key positions was the best way to go. When all the groundwork was laid and the company was growing, we did hire Americans and not without problems.

Whenever there is any law, program, opportunity etc. you will have plenty of people (and corporations) figuring out how to get around the intended spirit of it.
Clearly the programs were made to get talent that is not available (or enough of it) in the US.

Then comes the classic political situation:
Laws passed: DONE!

No monitoring and downright ignoring what is really going on (cost savings) succumb to large corporation lobbying and all the stuff going on behind the scenes.

It is not wrong looking into this, but I am also sure that there are alternative ways to get the current situation analyzed and updated into a way that works for everybody.

 

[ILikeAllOS]

Thank god! This was one of the things Bernie was outspoken about.
Glad that Trump agrees with Bernie on this issue while Hillary was talking about increasing the use of these visas!

 

[ReneR]

Why can’t these employees just do the same job in their own country? If Apple hired 1,000 Indians then just get a building for 1,000 Indians in India. Pay them a comparable Indian salary and just as importantly relieve some of the Silicon Valley housing crisis. These tech companies are all about globalization except oddly for their own employees, and you can’t tell me it’s essential for all these foreign hires to be in the same location. They just want to share the relative greatness of the US soil while paying no attention to what the economic impact is on the natives.

??? In my opinion this would only increase the problem for the USA even more: by paying "indians" in India even less than in the silicon valley the big IT cooperations would save even more. And by works abroad spending their money in their local country the local US business (food and what not) would not even profit. Not to mention lost taxes paid by the workers abroad instead of the USA.

Btw. all my European friends who were hired away by US companies are not only very highly educated, they also get a very high salary by Apple, Microsoft, Google & Co.

 

[sudo1996]

They did nothing illegal but they were abusing the intent behind H1-B.

IDK what their intent was, but it must've been obvious that this would happen. All I can say is maybe it's a bad law that they shouldn't have passed.
[doublepost=1485852785][/doublepost]

Depends, if you use high-skilled workers (example being people educated at US colleges), then this is a hinderance. Only 85k workers per year? Quite low, more so in the STEM degrees which almost no US Citizen likes to study or drops out off.

I was born a STEM student, and everyone in school kept trying to make me do something like English instead. Heck, I was still forced to take stupid* humanities classes as a computer science major in college, while humanities majors didn't touch STEM at all.

* Not stupid because they're humanities but stupid because the humanities classes particularly suck here.
[doublepost=1485853140][/doublepost]

I don't like the notion of simply "giving" Americans jobs. If they aren't the best qualified, why should they have it? We have many, many lazy people in this country. Some of the hardest working people I've seen are immigrants. Competition is healthy and keeps us from being complacent. I do recognize that a conversation needs to be had about what the other extreme of competition leads to: namely that the less qualified still need to be able to work in order to feed themselves and their families.

Well, this way, we'll encourage other countries to create jobs as it looks like there aren't enough jobs there. Yes, I consider immigrants more hardworking than natives (I say this as a native) but would rather they actually be American citizens who are committed to the U.S. than simply foreigners working here and shipping their earnings back home.

Only problem is Trump for some reason doesn't want any more immigrants from the places producing the most. And I'm pretty sure Arab immigrants have historically been among the most talented for whatever reason.
[doublepost=1485853656][/doublepost]

Is the first qualification that you have to be liberal ? If so, there were plenty at the marches.

Haha. Funny thing is of all the people I know in college, the computer science majors are the most conservative. If you want "liberals," try the sociology department.

 

[MacBH928]

Canada has a policy - you cannot hire a foreign worker if you can find existing employees in Canada. Up until Harper, not sure if its been reversed but foreign workers must be paid the same as a resident. Foreign workers cannot be used to decrease the salary.

I don't see a problem with this.

Mind you, there were ways around this.

This is kind of a nice rule, maybe better is a foreign worker should be paid MORE than residents, this way we make sure companies are really after their talent. Its hard to believe though that in a population of 300m, there is lack of any profession. I wonder how the British get by on 60m only.

 

[AppleMark]

Your Immigration system needs a complete overhaul, it's a mess.

This post is hilarious for all the wrong reasons. I am not endorsing one view over the other, however I am surprised the irony has been lost, that a person posting from Berlin, Germany tells another nation about it's immigration policy.

I personally blame the German government (and so do many of it's own citizens) for the hundreds and possibly thousands of deaths from people and their families offered false hope to risk their lives to travel from third world countries to Germany, based on a poorly conceived [and informally redacted] 'invitation' from Germany, to all.

How many lives will this US policy take and families destroyed, over the arguably irresponsible policy of Mrs Merkel?

 

[trainwrecka]

Depends, if you use high-skilled workers (example being people educated at US colleges), then this is a hinderance. Only 85k workers per year? Quite low, more so in the STEM degrees which almost no US Citizen likes to study or drops out off.

Why not focus on that problem? Why do our kids hate hard work? What is distracting them?

 

[gim]

This post is hilarious for all the wrong reasons. I am not endorsing one view over the other, however I am surprised the irony has been lost, that a person posting from Berlin, Germany tells another nation about it's immigration policy.

I personally blame the German government (and so do many of it's own citizens) for the hundreds and possibly thousands of deaths from people and their families offered false hope to risk their lives to travel from third world countries to Germany, based on a poorly conceived [and informally redacted] 'invitation' from Germany, to all.

How many lives will this US policy take and families destroyed, over the arguably irresponsible policy of Mrs Merkel?

I've never said that Germany's immigration system was any better, so I don't see your point there. This article was about Trump's policy, not Merkel's.
Is my opinion worth less because I'm posting from outside the U.S.?
FYI, because of my profession, I surely know more about your immigration laws than most Americans.

But hey, thanks for pointing out the disadvantages of disclosing your location on your profile here at macrumors. Deleting it right now..

 

[AppleMark]

I've never said that Germany's immigration system was any better, so I don't see your point there. This article was about Trump's policy, not Merkel's.
Is my opinion worth less because I'm posting from outside the U.S.?
FYI, because of my profession, I surely know more about your immigration laws than most Americans.

But hey, thanks for pointing out the disadvantages of disclosing your location on your profile here at macrumors. Deleting it right now..

Pot - Kettle.

 

[gim]

Pot - Kettle.

I don't make the laws in Germany. I'm no politician, and I didn't vote for Merkel's party. In fact, the majority of German's didn't vote for her. So tell me how I'm supposed to be guilty of what's happening here. Furthermore we are subject to the EU and it's laws, on which we have even less influence.

Not sure you even got the gist of my first comment. Your immigration system is a mess, meaning it needs much more than a (temporary) executive order to fix it. You don't agree with that? Great, you have every right to. But there's simply no need to turn the tables and accuse me or my home country of being even worse in that regard.

 

[AdonisSMU]

"Must" live, or want to live? I have to commute 45 minutes each day to my job. Would I like to live closer? Sure. Do I think I should have some kind of right to ride a bike to the office? No. I chose the job, and I chose where I live.

I guess the same could apply to factory workers. They can retrain for the current and future job markets rather than blaming immigrants, politicians and businesses for their problems right?

 

[5684697]

42

 

[AdonisSMU]

Once in a lifetime opportunity! Get your application in!!!!!!
[doublepost=1485873318][/doublepost]

Your standard of living will plummet. A lot of people, including elites who would benefit disproportionately would love to see that happen, it is why they promote importing very low cost labor from abroad. You Bernie voters want to see the rich get richer while the middle class gets poorer? Unfettered and unfair competition has massive consequences for the working class.

Bernie voters are the ones complaining the most. DT voters brought in a guy who brought the swamp into the White House with him. Donald Trump brought in the famed foreclosure king and the guy who said its always good to sell at the highest prices the market will buy at....but you want to lecture Bernie Sanders' voters.

 

[5684697]

42

 

[jav6454]

Why not focus on that problem? Why do our kids hate hard work? What is distracting them?

This all started when channels like Discovery Channel, Discovery Kids stopped making science oriented shows. Or when the History Channel stopped making their great shows and started doing more idiotic things like Pawn Stars. Seriously, how is Pawn Stars history?!

Most of our "Science" channels today are utter garbage and more and more look like E!. Oh and by the way, when stuff like E! gets more atenttion than the landing of a satellite on a comet.

Goes to show where American talent is going, down the drain.

 

[nick42983]

For me as a German, that is great news, because it means that companies like Apple will open or expand sites in other countries instead of trying to bring the people to the US. I currently work for an American tech company in Germany, and I know how difficult it is for managers in the US to find the right skill set there. In our "sister team" in the US, there are two Americans out of about 20 people.

And when I worked in the US myself (on H-1) about a decade ago, it was the same. I don't think any Americans ever applied when we had job openings. And by the way, I never felt exploited. On the contrary. My salary was really great. STEM simply isn't popular in the US anymore.

Of course, the downside is that sites in India will also continue to grow (though that's obviously not a downside for Indians).

Sounds like a load of anecdotal gossip. Plenty of Americans are in STEM and tech companies like yours are interested in cutting costs, you aren't special. European anti-American arrogance really isn't a stereotype.