Apple's Acquisition of Beats Could Be Delayed Because of Valuation, Roles, and More

[nuckinfutz]

That's right, when you can't defend the indefensible, pull out the race card!



I very clearly said that Apple's culture has a good side and a bad side. All of the examples you give are valid. Heck, I even made sure to take some photographs of Jobs' license-less Mercedes sitting squarely in the handicap spots at One Infinite Loop, because otherwise people wouldn't believe me.

And what the entire Silicon Valley does with massive abuse of the H1B visa system is vile. It is now considered the "norm" to lay off senior engineers and managers once they reach 40, and to never hire anyone that age or older back in. Instead they'll lie to the government that nobody exists in this country that can meet the skills of the position, so they get to bring another H1B visa holder in. Americans with mortgages and kids with college tuition get _destroyed_.

(Maybe Beats doesn't do that. If that were to be the case, I'd overlook a lot - but not all - of the bad side of Beats.)

So no, Silicon Valley "culture" is nothing worth bragging about. But it still is completely incompatible with the culture as exhibited in that Dr. Dre video.

The need of many here to paint anyone opposed to this deal as "racist" is very, very sad.

You speak the truth on the H1B fiasco.

Let me be clear. I'm not calling you a racist. To me calling someone a racist is a serious. It's stating that this person is likely to discriminate, and do other harmful things based on race. Anti-blackness or anti-[insert] is more cultural. I have anti-black tendencies. I simply cannot understand or accept guys walking around with their pants hanging below their cheeks.

The reality is Billboard and others are click baiting over a video that contains nothing but drunken men behaving like fools. I don't think Apple is going to scuttle a billion dollar deal over such silliness anymore than I think the man/woman behind Exponent is racist.

I'm pretty sure Dr. Dre probably had a nice persuasive talk about "brand representation".

Cheers

 

[Ckar]

This is a surprise.

 

[Parasprite]

PLEASE look up the definition of racism and prejudice. These are English words that do not have finite differences.

Wiktionary probably has closer to what you were looking for.

I'm not a mod note: This is getting a bit off-topic for MR.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Wiktionary probably has closer to what you were looking for.

I'm not a mod note: This is getting a bit off-topic for MR.

Totally agree.

I know about the wiktionary definition, but I like that Wikipedia and other academic journals include this statement

"However one view distinguishes prejudice from racism, holding that racism is best understood as 'prejudice plus power' because without the support of political or economic power, prejudice would not be able to manifest as a pervasive cultural, institutional or social phenomenon.[6] [7] Among the questions about how to define racism are the question of whether to include forms of discrimination that are unintentional, such as making assumptions about preferences or abilities of others based on racial stereotypes, whether to include symbolic or institutionalized forms of discrimination such as the circulation of ethnic stereotypes through the media, and whether to include the socio-political dynamics of social stratification that sometimes have a racial component"

That part is important, because it shows a clear difference between, "I hate X people" and "I will use my political, financial, influential power to make sure X people don't receive something that my race already receives.

Using the American government to hold back aid, support, money, development, legislature defending and protecting civil rights, marriage equality, etc are far more damaging then saying, " I hate ______ group of people while standing on a street corner."

----------

I have anti-black tendencies. I simply cannot understand or accept guys walking around with their pants hanging below their cheeks.

Don't worry, that particular thing isn't "black" or "African American" culture.

Again, cultural sensitivity folks.

That one small group of black youths that do that ARE NOT the poster children for the entire race or a defining part of AA culture.

White folks, Latino folks, Asians, etc. DO THE SAME THING.

It is part of hip-hop urban jail house culture.

Saying that you're anti-black, then using that as an example is like me saying I am anti-white, then brining up Hitler and Mussolini.

 

[Wide opeN]

I'm a black man and don't include me in your "us".Lmao@ a 30 second video with two successful black men at a private party "setting back black people 200 years"

Maybe it set back coons and uncle toms 200 years but not black folks.

Bro, I simply was stating that it reinforces the stereotype that's out there of us as black people.

What Dre did wasn't smart, whether you're BLACK, WHITE, GREEN or YELLOW.

I could care less if he's partying with the homies, BUT you DO NOT put yourself on VIDEO announcing ANYTHING that could have something to do with a deal prematurely, let alone with Apple of all companies, given their penchant for secrecy.

So sir, as you see I wasn't being "literal" with my commentary but simply stating the fact that Dre made a big mistake, as a result "history" may be in jeopardy of being made... Sure sounds like a "possible" set back to me. No!?

 

[Digital Skunk]

...

I can agree with you on that, but as another poster alluded too (he didn't quite say it right but I know what he was getting at) African Americans themselves need to stop acting like the actions of an ignorant few reflect upon the entire race.

I am not a huge fan of Dre, or P Diddy, or Jay Z or Ray Rice, or many of the African Americans in the light of the media but I'd never EVER say they represent us entirely.

If the deal doesn't go through it doesn't go through. It's not a step forward or back. I know I won't be collecting a check from it.

 

[wizard]

This deal indeed looks very UNAPPLE. I never thought, the people behind iTunes success are so incapable to create the best streaming service on this planet. Just strange days we live in, really. Hell yes! it is extremely overpriced, based on rumors. It feels like Apple just stepped onto the dead-beat's poo.

The point would be to avoid shuttling one business before another is established. Sometimes it is best to enter a new business indirectly.

In any event there are good reasons for Apple to want Beats. I just don't think people understand business here. For the same reason I can see the whole deal being called off because of the video rant.

 

[Exponent]

You speak the truth on the H1B fiasco.

Let me be clear. I'm not calling you a racist. To me calling someone a racist is a serious. It's stating that this person is likely to discriminate, and do other harmful things based on race. Anti-blackness or anti-[insert] is more cultural. I have anti-black tendencies. I simply cannot understand or accept guys walking around with their pants hanging below their cheeks.

Thank you for the kind words.

In the same respectful spirit, may I give you - and others on this thread - some data points for consideration? I don't think an aversion to "Ghetto culture" should be painted (ha!) in terms of pigment whatsoever.

"Ghetto culture" Datapoint: Henrik Harlaut, a Swede whiter than Donny Osmond:

"Ghetto culture" Datapoint: Justin "Megadork" Beiber:

"Ghetto culture" Datapoint: Eminem:

"Black culture" Datapoint: Dr. Ben Carson:

"Black culture" Datapoint: Allen West:

"Black culture" Datapoint: Condoleezza Rice:

Etc., etc. I try to make a distinction in wording based a choice of behaviors, not the pigment of ones' parents

 

[subsonix]

The point would be to avoid shuttling one business before another is established. Sometimes it is best to enter a new business indirectly.

In any event there are good reasons for Apple to want Beats. I just don't think people understand business here. For the same reason I can see the whole deal being called off because of the video rant.

It would be out of character of Apple to acquire a complete, established consumer brand, most acquisitions fit in like a cog in the machine and are soaked up under the Apple brand. I can't see that happening here, it would be very odd to just kill off Beats and rename it Apple, it would also be odd to keep it, iBeats? No..

Also, can you clue me in on how the video is related to the deal? Is it Dre mentioning being the first hip hop billionaire? If so, I don't think that has to be related. I saw a documentary a while ago which posed the question who was going to be the first hip hop billionaire of Jay-Z, 50 Cent, Diddy or Dr Dre.

 

[Wide opeN]

I am not a huge fan of Dre, or P Diddy, or Jay Z or Ray Rice, or many of the African Americans in the light of the media but I'd never EVER say they represent us entirely.

If the deal doesn't go through it doesn't go through. It's not a step forward or back. I know I won't be collecting a check from it.

See, but you have identified another problem within our culture, selfishness.

Who's to say that this deal couldn't have opened up other opportunities, for minorities!?

Maybe Diddy, does become the first NFL Owner, or Oprah does get the Clippers, and on and on.

Again, unfortunately as a people we're brought up with the CYA mentality, which IMO leads to selfish thinking.

If the deal doesn't end up getting done because of this video, then what will be he likely hood of Apple working with another hip hop artist!?

 

[VMMan]

Hmmm… I wonder if MacRumors should experiment with temporarily banning anybody who's made more than 3 posts in this thread.

 

[macs4nw]

Apple needs Beats, more than Beats needs Apple.

It is Beats who have are having second thoughts about this.

It is Beats who are worried that their brand will become 'tarnished' by mixing with Apple culture, not the other way around.

Post-Jobs Apple culture has become stale, myopic, and un-cool. Many of the comments posted on these Apple fan boards, which are much more offensive than a harmless youtube clip BTW, are indicative of that phenomenon.

Apple is dangerously close to losing cultural relevancy. 'iTunes' is already dead, and being killed by streaming services such as Spotify, Rdio, and Beats.

Those of you who are so smart /s tell me how:

Apple will create it's own streaming service without licensing deals?

Apple will forge content deals, in house, without Iovine, who basically helped Steve ink the initial content deals for the iTMS? (You think he will help what would become a competitor to his own service? LOL)

Apple will reach to a new generation of consumers? (i.e. young people with whom Apple is in danger of becoming un-cool now?)

Those who think that Apple should just only appeal to middle aged rich white men(Bose lol) are just plain clueless about the culture we are living in, just like Apple is in danger of becoming.
This is life and death for Apple.

I believe there certainly is some truth in the essence of what you're saying, although it might be premature to say "iTunes is already dead". This rumored purchase could be a mutually beneficial deal, although Buying Beats is of course no guarantee Dr Dre and Jimmy Iovine are going to stay with Apple, to justify that (for Apple) unprecedented price tag, because lacking their presence, it's hard to imagine how a streaming service with ~200,000 subscribers plus a line of headphones would be worth $3.2 billion.

And I certainly agree that to remain relevant, any company, not just Apple, needs to continually adapt their strategy to appeal to their shifting target demographic, and especially appeal to younger consumers who are gradually replacing the older segment of their consumer base.

 

[Digital Skunk]

See, but you have identified another problem within our culture, selfishness.

Who's to say that this deal couldn't have opened up other opportunities, for minorities!?

Maybe Diddy, does become the first NFL Owner, or Oprah does get the Clippers, and on and on.

Again, unfortunately as a people we're brought up with the CYA mentality, which IMO leads to selfish thinking.

If the deal doesn't end up getting done because of this video, then what will be he likely hood of Apple working with another hip hop artist!?

Don't get me wrong, that last part came off wrong.

I really just mean to say that these moments come and go, and we can't look to Dre and Oprah to carry us on her backs. When they slip they will take us all with them.

In the end its all good whether the deal is made or not we will be fine.

Apple has worked with Beats in the past. They were once exclusively sold at Apple Retail stores IIRC.

 

[Wishbrah]

Thank you for the kind words.

In the same respectful spirit, may I give you - and others on this thread - some data points for consideration? I don't think an aversion to "Ghetto culture" should be painted (ha!) in terms of pigment whatsoever.

"Ghetto culture" Datapoint: Henrik Harlaut, a Swede whiter than Donny Osmond:
Image

"Ghetto culture" Datapoint: Justin "Megadork" Beiber:
Image

"Ghetto culture" Datapoint: Eminem:
Image

"Black culture" Datapoint: Dr. Ben Carson:
Image

"Black culture" Datapoint: Allen West:
Image

"Black culture" Datapoint: Condoleezza Rice:
Image

Etc., etc. I try to make a distinction in wording based a choice of behaviors, not the pigment of ones' parents

You could replace "ghetto culture" with "drug culture" and send the same message.

Ironically, or maybe rightfully so, this isn't as black and white as most deduce.

 

[Wide opeN]

Don't get me wrong, that last part came off wrong.

I really just mean to say that these moments come and go, and we can't look to Dre and Oprah to carry us on her backs. When they slip they will take us all with them.

In the end its all good whether the deal is made or not we will be fine.

Agreed.

 

[carmenodie]

This whole deal is bullish**!
Apple can make a music subscription service over night without a hitch. This was simply a PR stunt to get that stock price up.
3.2 billon to buy a music subscription service when Apple already sells the same goddamn music on iTunes. What, are they trying to do, re-invent iTunes off the back of Beats music? Seems that way.
At the end of the day it ain't Apple's music but the industry's music.
Besides Beats headphones are subpar crap. Pure PR. Nice packaging and design but the quality of their swag is pathetic.

 

[s2mikey]

Hmmm... Maybe they actually figured out that Dre and his minions are really just thugs after all. Rich thugs, but thugs nonetheless. You can take the person out of the ghetto and gangsta life but you cannot take the ghetto and gangsta life out of the person.

Beats is a crap music service anyways. C'mon.

 

[rhinosrcool]

This whole deal is bullish**!
Apple can make a music subscription service over night without a hitch. This was simply a PR stunt to get that stock price up.
3.2 billon to buy a music subscription service when Apple already sells the same goddamn music on iTunes. What, are they trying to do, re-invent iTunes off the back of Beats music? Seems that way.
At the end of the day it ain't Apple's music but the industry's music.
Besides Beats headphones are subpar crap. Pure PR. Nice packaging and design but the quality of their swag is pathetic.

I agree. Maybe they hire Dre and Iovine as consultants; as executives, no way.

 

[CEmajr]

The deal is pretty much done. Dr. Dre wouldn't be in that video celebrating if it wasn't. I'm sure that after being in business for several decades now, he knows more than any of us here how it works.

I don't think there's a major issue with their behavior in the video. It's a bunch of drunk guys celebrating their friend becoming a BILLIONAIRE. How would you celebrate a multi-billion dollar deal that doubles your net worth?

If anything, Apple may have just been upset with one of the parties involved in the deal (Dr. Dre), making a premature announcement before Apple had the chance to publicly announce the deal themselves.

But the deal is done. Get over it. Whether or not Dre and Iovine are integrated as executives is what remains to be seen.

 

[robbyx]

Our company? So, um... who are you?

Maybe he (or she) is a shareholder.

 

[Rogifan]

Thank you for the kind words.

In the same respectful spirit, may I give you - and others on this thread - some data points for consideration? I don't think an aversion to "Ghetto culture" should be painted (ha!) in terms of pigment whatsoever.

"Ghetto culture" Datapoint: Henrik Harlaut, a Swede whiter than Donny Osmond:
Image

"Ghetto culture" Datapoint: Justin "Megadork" Beiber:
Image

"Ghetto culture" Datapoint: Eminem:
Image

"Black culture" Datapoint: Dr. Ben Carson:
Image

"Black culture" Datapoint: Allen West:
Image

"Black culture" Datapoint: Condoleezza Rice:
Image

Etc., etc. I try to make a distinction in wording based a choice of behaviors, not the pigment of ones' parents

I have a couple additions:

 

[IJ Reilly]

Yep, cardinal rule. Not sure why anyone would expect Dr. Dre to know about that rule. Now Jimmy I knows this rule due to his many discussions with Jobs in the past. Maybe Jimmy didn't make this clear to Dre. Maybe Dre didn't take it seriously. Maybe this was a controlled leak in order to influence negotiations in the favor of Beats (certainly can't see why anyone at Beats would have thought that it would help).

My point is only that salty language and boasting should not come as a shock to the Apple Family. Anyone who thought through the steps should have known that something like this was coming. Would the Apple Family be okay with this after the deal was done and the cash handed over? I'm pretty sure at that point the party would have been a lot bigger and the video more than a hand held affair.

Anybody with even a passing interest in Apple already knows about their attitude towards secrecy, and I can't imagine that everyone involved wasn't warned off talking about the deal until it was made official. This is likely to be a much larger issue than the boasting and salty language. The real question is whether Apple can extricate themselves from the deal without looking like it was something they really wanted to do in the first place.

 

[Piggie]

How would you celebrate a multi-billion dollar deal that doubles your net worth?

Well, I would not be mouthing out about M-ther F-cker and other terms and video myself doing it and have it posted online.

Would you?

Mind you I would not act in that manner anyway

 

[CEmajr]

Well, I would not be mouthing out about M-ther F-cker and other terms and video myself doing it and have it posted online.

Would you?

Mind you I would not act in that manner anyway

It's not how I'd imagine I would celebrate either. People can celebrate or party how they see fit but I agree that putting it on video was the only thing I had a problem with. Doesn't really matter though. The deal is done.

 

[postpc]

Ironic, with Apple and iTunes saying the music industry in the early 2ks, now it's them turning to Iovine and the music industry to get saved. Let's face it classic iTunes is pretty much dead already the next decade is going to be all about streaming. Check out the Iovine footage on YouTube to get an idea what this acquisition is all about.