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Apple's anti-competitive behavior with browsers: Why does Apple get a pass?

Is it ok for Apple to not allow other default browsers and gimp their Webkit usage?

  • Yes

    Votes: 128 38.7%

  • No

    Votes: 203 61.3%
  • Total voters
    331
Calidude said:
Do you think mobile Safari on iPhone handles tabs the way a "good" browser should? :confused:
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Each to their own! I used chrome for few days as a main app for browsing while i toke safari off the deck and put it in a folder. Now that has been reversed, chrome is in the google folder and safari back on the deck. Its clearly faster then chrome and am used to it. So even if i had the otpion here, i would choose safari as default.

But yes.... i still agree that an option for the user would be nice. I would say that 90% of users won't even bother to dig on the settings and change it as long as what they have works.
 
faroZ06 said:
I think people don't care about this because Mobile Safari is actually good...
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A good browser should allow viewers to see more of the web page than the interface. Safari's top and bottom bars take up too much room on an already space deprived screen. I saw that the interface on the Chrome browser takes up 9.5% of the available browser screen where Safari's interface takes up 22.8%. Apple really needs to condense the Safari interface to make me switch back.
 

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burnside said:
A good browser should allow viewers to see more of the web page than the interface. Safari's top and bottom bars take up too much room on an already space deprived screen. I saw that the interface on the Chrome browser takes up 9.5% of the available browser screen where Safari's interface takes up 22.8%. Apple really needs to condense the Safari interface to make me switch back.
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You left out the part where the Safari address bar scrolls with the webpage. The Chrome address bar does not. They both take up a similar amount of space in practice.
 
burnside said:
A good browser should allow viewers to see more of the web page than the interface. Safari's top and bottom bars take up too much room on an already space deprived screen. I saw that the interface on the Chrome browser takes up 9.5% of the available browser screen where Safari's interface takes up 22.8%. Apple really needs to condense the Safari interface to make me switch back.
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Yeah if Apple would merge the search + address bar into one bar like they did on the mac.
 
burnside said:
A good browser should allow viewers to see more of the web page than the interface. Safari's top and bottom bars take up too much room on an already space deprived screen. I saw that the interface on the Chrome browser takes up 9.5% of the available browser screen where Safari's interface takes up 22.8%. Apple really needs to condense the Safari interface to make me switch back.
Click to expand...

I agree on this, though apple adding full screen mode only in landscape in IO6

If you jallbreak there is a fullscreen safari mod which i use :D
 
faroZ06 said:
Have you heard about the Netscape case? MS actually banned Netscape completely from Windows, and they got into lots of legal trouble. That was so long ago that it's not really relevant, though.
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Apparently, you haven't heard of the Netscape case either since that never actually happened. Netscape always has worked on Windows, it was never "banned".
 
burnside said:
A good browser should allow viewers to see more of the web page than the interface. Safari's top and bottom bars take up too much room on an already space deprived screen. I saw that the interface on the Chrome browser takes up 9.5% of the available browser screen where Safari's interface takes up 22.8%. Apple really needs to condense the Safari interface to make me switch back.
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Yeah, the menus should really only come up when you tap or something, but Mobile Safari is still a decent browser. It's not like it's IE.
 
gloss said:
No non-Safari browser is allowed to use the much-faster Nitro JavaScript engine, ostensibly for security reasons. This includes Chrome.
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For real security reasons.

That said, I can think of no good reason why Apple shouldn't allow other default web and mail applications (or at least no reason which could be defended). If I give them the benefit of the doubt, it might simply be because they need to make various changes to the way iOS works to enable this type of functionality and that may accompany a varied degree of knuckle-dragging and waiting to get it just right. The opposite interpretation is that they don't want competition for Safari, but that one'll probably come around to bite them one day.

KnightWRX said:
Apparently, you haven't heard of the Netscape case either since that never actually happened. Netscape always has worked on Windows, it was never "banned".
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Never banned, but Microsoft used its control of the operating system to send it to its grave in a big hurry.
 
Xian Zhu Xuande said:
Never banned, but Microsoft used its control of the operating system to send it to its grave in a big hurry.
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That's not what the poster I replied to claimed though.

Yes, indeed, the bundling of IE in Windows 98 really harmed Netscape, no need to educate me about that case, I basically followed it as it happened. Though if you ask me, Netscape 4.x was just a terrible release anyhow (very shoddy DOM/CSS support compared to what the W3C was publishing at the time. Internet Explorer / KHTML both had much better standard support).
 
KnightWRX said:
Yes, indeed, the bundling of IE in Windows 98 really harmed Netscape, no need to educate me about that case, I basically followed it as it happened. Though if you ask me, Netscape 4.x was just a terrible release anyhow (very shoddy DOM/CSS support compared to what the W3C was publishing at the time. Internet Explorer / KHTML both had much better standard support).
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Yeah, Netscape was no good, but Microsoft's Windows offering at the time was also terrible. This was in the 'built for x' days, as I gather you recall. It was Intermet Explorer 5 for Mac of all things that really started to shine.

I was just pointing out (without truly knowing what people know—can't hope to do that jumping in on a forum) that what Microsoft did really did have an extremely strong influence on Netscape's demise.
 
Apple will allow for other default browsers some day, but let's be honest - until last week when Chrome for iOS was released, there wasn't any decent competitor. So yes, it's completely fair for now.
 
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Renzatic said:
You should write a strongly worded letter to the EU for forcing MS to provide a browser ballot to let the end users pick which they want instead of making IE the default.

I mean hell, it's their OS, right?
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Yeah. It is their OS and they SHOULD be allowed to do what they want with it. Same as Apple with Safari.
 
callidus said:
As for the Webkit usage - Google can choose to use any engine they want if they have a problem with Apple's practices. They even have the resources to develop their own engine, but they choose not to, so your point's kinda invalid.
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There really isn't anything to say about this other than it is 100% false and you should check your facts. Not a single thing you said there is true.
 
callidus said:
As for the Webkit usage - Google can choose to use any engine they want if they have a problem with Apple's practices. They even have the resources to develop their own engine, but they choose not to, so your point's kinda invalid.
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Actually, no, Google can't. Not if they want Apple to approve their iOS app. Apple has certain restrictions when it comes to apps that "install or launch executable code".
 
The poll subject is inaccurate and childish.
Webkit was made usable by Apple. Google then used webkit for Chrome.
Google uses a different javascript engine from Apple.
It is not anti-competitve to not allow another browser to be set as default. Read up on what is considered an anti-competitive practice. For one thing you need a monopoly. That is why Microsoft was in trouble with IE.


Calidude said:
I don't use Chrome myself, but today was a big deal for a lot of people and I'm surprised that Apple isn't being heavily criticized for their anti-competitive behavior when it comes to browsers.

It's ridiculous enough that other browsers can't be set as default, but to actually gimp them by not allowing them to harness the full Webkit abilities of Safari is just blatantly destructive to end users and developers alike.

I'm seeing people say "you need to jailbreak" yet this board is overwhelmingly anti-jailbreak . Is this something we should have to jailbreak? Not at all. Apple has a mobile OS that doesn't even act like an OS should, and people don't seem to have much of a problem with it.

Why is that?
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Xian Zhu Xuande said:
The opposite interpretation is that they don't want competition for Safari, but that one'll probably come around to bite them one day.
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Apple thinks about the vast majority of users and they want to keep things simple and safe for them. If someone doesn't like it they can jailbreak or use another OS.

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EngageWithRage said:
Apple has always restricted, "boycotted"(so to speak), sued any company that releases an app that is better than what they currently offer, and don't even get me started on the the Galaxy Nexus issue..
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I'm going to guess you haven't been doing this long.

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eezing said:
FYI: Apple is not ahead of Android. There are far more Android users than iPhone users.
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The only Android company making money is Samsung. The rest are losing money. The Android developer ecosystem is terrible with a sliver of the profits of iOS. Apple makes far more profit than all Android manufactures combined. Even Google makes more money from their services on iOS than they do on Android.
Now who is ahead exactly?
 
DarwinOSX said:
Apple thinks about the vast majority of users and they want to keep things simple and safe for them. If someone doesn't like it they can jailbreak or use another OS.
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I missed this reply. I think this is being a little disingenuous. There is no noteworthy usability concern associated with providing a preference option to change the default browser. I think the only legwork involved would be allowing an alternative browser to be supported through the OS (keeping in mind that the mechanics behind this do not need to add complexity to the interface in any way). So, acknowledging that I may have overlooked an option here, I see only two truly viable explanations for this: 1) Apple hasn't yet had the chance [within reason] to elegantly enable this kind of support within iOS, or 2) Apple doesn't want people using a browser other than Safari in iOS. I'm sure security is also a concern, but that can be addressed by enforcing limitations on third-party browsers (such as the JavaScript limitation Chrome currently faces) and through additional considerations in the review process.

And ultimately it could simply come down to a legal consideration anyway.
 
Calidude
In Time-Out
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thank the gods, you couldnt hardly open a thread without calidude saying something rude and not making sense.


on topic, i dont think apple is being "anti-competitive" thats just them not being as open as you would like, cali. If they weren't competitive they wouldnt release cutting edge devices that causes other companies to try and out do them. They wouldnt be the number 1 company if they were not competitive.
 
BFizzzle said:
thank the gods, you couldnt hardly open a thread without calidude saying something rude and not making sense.

on topic, i dont think apple is being "anti-competitive" thats just them not being as open as you would like, cali. If they weren't competitive they wouldnt release cutting edge devices that causes other companies to try and out do them. They wouldnt be the number 1 company if they were not competitive.
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Not making sense? Lol I'd like to you explain how I don't make sense.

This post, however makes no sense because you fail to understand what "anti-competitive" means. Anti-competitive behavior is not allowing certain 3rd apps on your platform to truly compete with your built-in app. What you're describing is something else entirely, namely "innovation".
 
Calidude said:
This post, however makes no sense because you fail to understand what "anti-competitive" means. Anti-competitive behavior is not allowing certain 3rd apps on your platform to truly compete with your built-in app.
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Except that's not what anti-competitive means either. Apple is competing on a device level and a platform level. As should be very clear by now, the do not offer an open platform for native apps, only for web apps. Nobody criticizes Burger King for not allowing McDonalds to sell Big Macs in their restaurants.
 
i've been exclusively using chrome

(jailbreak and get the Open In Chrome)

i think apple is the wrong
 
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