Apple's anti-competitive behavior with browsers: Why does Apple get a pass?

[BaldiMac]

It's mixed for me, because I like Apple hardware, but don't like their draconian (and arguably unnecessary) restrictions they put on third parties.

What's with the hyperbole?

There's no reason why Apple shouldn't allow another true browser into their ecosystem.

Of course there is. You just contradicted yourself with your next sentence.

You could argue it's a potential security risk, but people who feel the need to experiment with browsers other than the default tend to know how to handle themselves when it comes to security issues.

I'm not sure how using Firefox makes you a security expert.

And the security risks? Likely negligible. In my opinion Chrome on iOS should have the same access to the hardware as Safari. Or if not that, then at least access to the same internal software. There's absolutely no good excuse to do otherwise.

According to your guess and your opinion. Right now, Apple is responsible for all code executed on iOS devices. Allowing other programs to download and execute code compromises their security model, despite your attempt to minimize the risk.



But that all gets away from the original point. I understand asking for new features. I've submitted feature requests and bug reports myself. However, my opinion is that complaining about and denigrating other people because they won't do what you want is self-centered and immoral. (I am not in any way referring to you. )

To me, choice is about the freedom to choose from available options, not forcing someone to create something for you.

 

[Kayan]

I personally don't like Chrome unless I'm on a PC (and I'm stoked for the new Safari in Mtn Lion which will kill Chrome on Macs), but I don't think that Apple should intentionally bog down other browsers unless there is some important reason that I can't think of for it.

 

[roxxette]

I dont understand the complaints, most here know whats iOS stand about these "problems" yet you still buy it to complaint....

 

[eezing]

Wasn't the whole Windows/IE thing over the fact that Microsoft had dominance over the personal computer OS market?

Apple doesn't have dominance over the smartphone OS market. Depending on which analyst report you read on a specific day, they may be slightly ahead of Android, but that's not dominance.

FYI: Apple is not ahead of Android. There are far more Android users than iPhone users. But, I agree with your statement.

I'm sure Apple will allow devs to have access to the Nitro engine in a future build of iOS because of this single issue. They have actually responded to the community quite well in the past. Many features such as native apps, multitasking, copy & paste, custom backgrounds, etc... were all heated issues before they were implemented.

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I personally don't like Chrome unless I'm on a PC (and I'm stoked for the new Safari in Mtn Lion which will kill Chrome on Macs), but I don't think that Apple should intentionally bog down other browsers unless there is some important reason that I can't think of for it.

What do you mean by intentional? It was probably just overlooked and not much of a priority to offer dev support for the nitro engine up to this point. There will always be something to bitch about. If its not one thing, it's another.

 

[rorschach]

Of course not. They follow the Apple model. There's no bashing of anybody who goes lockstep with the Borg.

You said people here would be hypocritical. You said they would support Apple and bash MS at the same time if the two had the same position.

 

[Beta Particle]

Apple needs to do some major work on safari. Here's the stock android browser on the jellybean preview that is final next month. It destroys safari. The ICS browser and gingerbread browser already were faster. This is on the nexus too. I can only imagine how fast it is on the tegra 3 and snapdragon s4.

That looks about on-par with Safari in iOS 6 when you consider that the CPU in the Nexus is 20% faster.

 

[212rikanmofo]

This OP right here has nothing better to do than troll. Obviously iOS isn't meant for you, so why bother starting pointless threads about it if it doesn't meet your expectations. If you love widgets, customization and tones of features and hardware with all these great "specs', then clearly Android is the platform for you. iOS obviously isn't for you, yet you keep making these negative threads about Apple. You're quite the drama queen here.

iOS is great for people who are familiar with Apple's ecosystem and prefer Apple's way of doing things, if you want "openness" and customization, stick with Android and be happy with it, but it's quite annoying seeing all these threads you post up. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't waste my time on an Android-Centric Forum and start posting threads talking negatively about them. To me, that's trolling.

 

[Calidude]

You said people here would be hypocritical. You said they would support Apple and bash MS at the same time if the two had the same position.

No, I clearly said that if Apple were structuring iOS as if it were OSX (i.e, allowing other default browsers) and Microsoft had the closed ecosystem (i.e. what iOS is like right now) people would be bashing Microsoft.

There is a clear bias when it comes to Apple here.

 

[spacepower7]

Entitlement

I really don't care about anything you guys are bickering about. All I know is that I payed hard earned cash for my iPhone and iPad and I should be able to do what I want with it. I shouldn't have to jailbreak to do things like changing the default browser.

But the fact is that Apple wants to control your entire experience and prevent competition on their own platforms. If anyone doesn't like that, we got plenty of choices.

I don't want to jailbreak since its getting harder and harder to find exploits and there is never any guarantee that we'll see a jailbreak for the next iOS versions or the one after that one. Not to mention that it can cause some apps to behave unstable.

I dont like that I can't do what I want to do with MY phone, my iPhone, which is set Chrome as the default browser, but I'm not complaining or making threads. This just means that the chances of an iPhone being my next phone are much much lower. Which if you think about it, its Apple's loss, not mine.

I'm complaining with my wallet. I've already got a Nexus 7 on the way and if Apple keeps displeasing me, my next phone could also be a Nexus. No need to bicker and complain. Asking Apple to implement a feature is about as useful as talking to a brick wall.

Cry me a river, you knew the limitations before you purchased your device.

Apple isn't open source and everybody knows that, except you I guess?

My first cell phone did something extraordinary...

It made phone calls while not needing to be attached to a wall in my home.

Apple wants to control the entire experience to make it simple for the average person, not you and I, who read tech forums. Give an Android phone and an iPhone to a child or someone over 45 and they'll want the iPhone.

The average user is not looking for complexity and customization, they want a phone first, everything else is sauce. The easier to understand the sauce, the better.

I'll tweak my Mac, windows 7, and Linux boxes all I want but I feel not desire to do that on my phone or table, bc I use the apps not the OS.

Which reminds mean of a comment that I read on theverge the other day...

The guy was talking all about the how he disliked iOS bc he couldn't customize the GUI and home screens as much..... I guess thats what android people like?

iOS, I don't even notice it except when I switch between apps. Who cares about the OS, it's the apps the are useful and increase productivity. Why would I waste my time tweaking widgets and wallpapers to find the "perfect one"?

These gadgets are tools, use them to make your life easier.

I won't bother addressing the competition/antitrust slant bc it has no valid legal argument. If you want to learn more read a book not Internet forums.

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Image Image

Apple needs to do some major work on safari. Here's the stock android browser on the jellybean preview that is final next month. It destroys safari. The ICS browser and gingerbread browser already were faster. This is on the nexus too. I can only imagine how fast it is on the tegra 3 and snapdragon s4.

I love tech spec benchmarks that don't use any websites that I use.

 

[MythicFrost]

I don't use Chrome myself, but today was a big deal for a lot of people and I'm surprised that Apple isn't being heavily criticized for their anti-competitive behavior when it comes to browsers.

It's ridiculous enough that other browsers can't be set as default, but to actually gimp them by not allowing them to harness the full Webkit abilities of Safari is just blatantly destructive to end users and developers alike.

I'm seeing people say "you need to jailbreak" yet this board is overwhelmingly anti-jailbreak . Is this something we should have to jailbreak? Not at all. Apple has a mobile OS that doesn't even act like an OS should, and people don't seem to have much of a problem with it.

Why is that?

I agree that you should be able to set the default browser.

However based on my understanding they don't allow third party browsers access to the Nitro JavaScript Engine that Safari uses because of security reasons -- the Nitro Engine required that unsigned code be run and Safari has things in place to prevent that from being exploited. Considering that a third party browser is in the hands of the developer and not Apple, it may open security holes.

Apple needs to do some major work on safari. Here's the stock android browser on the jellybean preview that is final next month. It destroys safari. The ICS browser and gingerbread browser already were faster. This is on the nexus too. I can only imagine how fast it is on the tegra 3 and snapdragon s4.

What processor does the Nexus have?

With iOS 6 Safari's performance is improved quite a bit, the SunSpider and BrowserMark scores are really good. The iPad 3 does very well too.

 

[Renzatic]

What's with the hyperbole?

As far as browsers are concerned, it is a little more strict than it needs be. Every browser in iOS runs on top of Apple's webkit implementation, same as Safari, but doesn't have access to the much faster, far more streamlined Nitro javascript kit.

In other words, every browser is a hobbled shell when compared to the full access hardware level speediness of Apple's own browser.

Of course there is.

Why? Because it's "Theirs to do with as they please"? I thought iPads, Macs, and other Apple made devices were computers, not an exclusive club you join for prestige.

I'm not sure how using Firefox makes you a security expert.

...yeeeeaaaahhhh, that's one of my weaker arguments, and I don't even know why I said that. Let's move on.

According to your guess and your opinion. Right now, Apple is responsible for all code executed on iOS devices. Allowing other programs to download and execute code compromises their security model, despite your attempt to minimize the risk.

Yeah, it's my opinion. I know some people prefer the peace of mind. Me? I'd like to have the option to use something a little more full featured if I want to. Apple doesn't always make the best stuff that best suits my needs.

...and there is one easy solution to this. One Apple is already implementing on the Mac. That's right. Gatekeeper. The best of both worlds. If you want the security, disallow anything outside of the Mac App Store. Want the freedom? Opt out entirely. I really, really honestly wish they'd implement a similar model for iOS.

To me, choice is about the freedom to choose from available options, not forcing someone to create something for you.

It's not so much that I'm forcing Apple to make what I want. Rather, I want them to loosen their grip on their platform just a tiny bit so someone else can do it for them. I've heard the old chestnut about the tyranny of choice, Where having too much isn't necessarily a good thing, since it makes for an unfocused experience. But the even older chestnut about variety being the spice of life is equally true. There's a nice happy medium, and I wish Apple would move over to it. They don't have to be Windows/Linux anything goes open, but being a little more relaxed wouldn't hurt them.

 

[viewfly]

I don't use Chrome myself, but today was a big deal for a lot of people and I'm surprised that Apple isn't being heavily criticized for their anti-competitive behavior when it comes to browsers?

I think you answered your own question here.

I don't use Chrome either, so that is why I don't care or complain. Don't use chrome on my Mac either.

Question: Why don't YOU use Chrome? I see that you feel your question is un biased and innocent because you don't , BUT why not? What performance features don't you like about Chrome?

 

[TheSuperSteve]

Cry me a river, you knew the limitations before you purchased your device.

Apple isn't open source and everybody knows that, except you I guess?
You read my post and you should know I bought my iPhone knowing exactly what I would be buying.

My first cell phone did something extraordinary...
It made phone calls while not needing to be attached to a wall in my home.
Irrelevant. People buy smartphones for different reasons. I bought my iPhone because Apple's App Store is the best in the industry and because of Apple's support. That and the fact that I'm guaranteed at least two more iOS iterations as updates for my iPhone 4S.

Apple wants to control the entire experience to make it simple for the average person, not you and I, who read tech forums. Give an Android phone and an iPhone to a child or someone over 45 and they'll want the iPhone.
Irrelevant. It also depends on the child and/or phones in question. One may prefer the Android phone because of the bigger screen.

The average user is not looking for complexity and customization, they want a phone first, everything else is sauce. The easier to understand the sauce, the better. This is true, but I don't see how this is relevant to the default browser discussion.

I'll tweak my Mac, windows 7, and Linux boxes all I want but I feel not desire to do that on my phone or table, bc I use the apps not the OS. You may not feel like it, but I and many others do. Why do desktops and laptops computersget the choice to change default browsers and not smartphones or tablets? Aren't they also computers?

Which reminds mean of a comment that I read on theverge the other day...
The guy was talking all about the how he disliked iOS bc he couldn't customize the GUI and home screens as much..... I guess thats what android people like?

iOS, I don't even notice it except when I switch between apps. Who cares about the OS, it's the apps th are useful and increase productivity. Why would I waste my time tweaking widgets and wallpapers to find the "perfect one"?

These gadgets are tools, use them to make your life easier.

I don't even change the default wallpaper to be honest. I do use them as tools. I don't feel the need to customize the homescreen or anything. The only thing I want is the right to change the default browser. Thats it.

And even if I can't, I'm still using Chrome as my browser for iOS and OS X. Why? Because as you said, we're supposed to use these devices to make our lives easier, and Chrome makes my life easier. It may not make your life easier, but it does so for me. Nothing wrong with that.

And I'm gonna be real with you. I used to be just like you and like many people in this forum a couple of weeks ago. I was drinking the koolaid willingly. I saved money just to replace every tech device I own with Apple products. The latest turn of events with WWDC and Google I/O as well as the Galaxy Nexus ban have begun to wake me up.


I won't bother addressing the competition/antitrust slant bc it has no valid legal argument. If you want to learn more read a book not Internet forums.My suggestion to you is to be more impartial. Give too much trust in one company and they will screw you over eventually. None of these companies care about us. Not Google, not Microsoft and certainly not Apple.

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I love tech spec benchmarks that don't use any websites that I use.

Replies in bold.

 

[JS82712]

Android has plenty of flaws. There's no integrated chat system works as powerfully as it should, Android is a Java VM running on a Linux kernel which is why there's lag in the first place, Android doesn't inform a user when say an app like Skype is adding your Skype contacts to the phone, etc. There are all things that Android needs to fix.

The issue that I'm trying to put forth is that Android acts more like OSX than iOS does, allowing you to set other browsers as default as well as other things an OS should do.

Why do I need my mobile os to be like my desktop os?
I'm sure iOS not being like osx is such a problem and that's why most top enterprises in the world are deploying iPads.

I will reiterate, apple doesn't need to satisfy everyone, it will put out features that enhance the overal experience for the general population.

 

[roxxette]

I guess some people like to look smart lol, the thread served its purpose:





Most people seem to be "know" .....

 

[Jagardn]

Why do I need my mobile os to be like my desktop os?
I'm sure iOS not being like osx is such a problem and that's why most top enterprises in the world are deploying iPads.

I will reiterate, apple doesn't need to satisfy everyone, it will put out features that enhance the overal experience for the general population, and you simply need to shut your @ss up and go get some warmth from fandroid forums.

My thoughts exactly!
Windows 8 will run on Phones, Tablets, and PC's, but I'd bet you can't run the same FTP servers, VNC Servers that a desktop will. Microsoft and Apple are smart enough to know that those things shouldn't be running on a phone. Calidude complains about everything Apple, period. Scrub these forums for his posts and I'd bet his posts are 99% negative, so he is not a total troll, just mostly.

 

[cynics]

I hate I can't set defaults on everything not just the browser, I'd like to change the camera too.

I really don't understand why Apple does this (am I'm not talk nitro either just defaults). What does apple get from forcing me to use safari or the native camera app? And if apple really wanted iOS users to use native apps the solution is simple, make the apps better (assuming the user doesn't like it for one reason or another). I'd gladly set safari as default if I preferred it over other apps.

 

[iEvolution]

LOL @ the 40% that think it's fine that Apple can tell you what to do with the product you paid for.

It is interesting that Microsoft gets in trouble for bundling IE with windows and they have always allowed being able to set another browser as default, yet it's perfectly acceptable for Apple to shove it in your face with safari on iOS without allowing the change of default settings.

Anti-competitive behavior at its finest.

 

[JS82712]

LOL @ the 40% that think it's fine that Apple can tell you what to do with the product you paid for.

It is interesting that Microsoft gets in trouble for bundling IE with windows and they have always allowed being able to set another browser as default, yet it's perfectly acceptable for Apple to shove it in your face with safari on iOS without allowing the change of default settings.

Anti-competitive behavior at its finest.

last time I checked, MS has over 80% IE market share, and over 90% windows market share, no ***** they will get into trouble for bundling IE.

As many have stated before, you know very well what you are buying when you purchase an iDevice, if you don't like it, there are many other alternatives out there. Besides, android is the one with the higher market share, and that's exactly why apple isn't considered a monopoly.

Out of all the smartphone vendors you call apple anti-competitive LOL. tell me more about how samsung and moto are abusing their standard essential patents.

 

[Calidude]

last time I checked, MS has over 80% IE market share, and over 90% windows market share, no ***** they will get into trouble for bundling IE.

Even at those crazy marketshares, MS didn't ban users from changing the default browser once 3rd party browsers were made available.

Now that iOS does it, WP7 does it too. Just shameful.

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Why do I need my mobile os to be like my desktop os?

Because they're both operating systems. There's a certain standard for operating systems, and iOS is going the backwards route.

Would you be asking this question if Apple always thought your mobile OS should work like your desktop OS and did so in iOS? Probably not. If that were the case, you'd be making fun of other mobile OS's that lock their browser down, while championing that iOS was "respectful of user choice and developer innovation" while the others were "typical corporate lockdown scum".

 

[Ashin]

Would be good if Google released it on Cydia

 

[JS82712]

Even at those crazy marketshares, MS didn't ban users from changing the default browser once 3rd party browsers were made available.

Now that iOS does it, WP7 does it too. Just shameful.

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Because they're both operating systems. There's a certain standard for operating systems, and iOS is going the backwards route.

Would you be asking this question if Apple always thought your mobile OS should work like your desktop OS and did so in iOS? Probably not. If that were the case, you'd be making fun of other mobile OS's that lock their browser down, while championing that iOS was "respectful of user choice and developer innovation" while the others were "typical corporate lockdown scum".

Why does it matter to you what kind of mobile OS I prefer?
If you think your endless trash talk on iOS will make anyone here switch to android, then you'd be wrong.
Btw, you should change your dp to one showing you giving Larry page a BJ; I think that'd be a lot more appropriate.

 

[Calidude]

Why does it matter to you what kind of mobile OS I prefer?

It doesn't. I'm strictly speaking about Apple's standards.

If you think your endless trash talk on iOS will make anyone here switch to android, then you'd be wrong.
Btw, you should change your dp to one showing you giving Larry page a BJ; I think that'd be a lot more appropriate.

Ok.

 

[Renzatic]

last time I checked, MS has over 80% IE market share, and over 90% windows market share, no ***** they will get into trouble for bundling IE.

Actually, no. Chrome overtook it in marketshare a few weeks back. For the first time in years and years, IE is now only the second most used browser around the world.

Tell me more about how samsung and moto are abusing their standard essential patents.

..and they're getting smacked down for attempting it, too.

Would be good if Google released it on Cydia

You know, I wonder why no one has done that yet. Anyone can grab the Chromium source code and do whatever they want to with it. I'm surprised it hasn't shown up on Cydia yet.

 

[roxxette]

Chrome is that good.