tyranne201
macrumors 6502
a tech that few people will actually buy. what for? a niche just like apple tv.
Apple's AR/VR Headset Could Be Less Than a Year Away
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Defender2010
Cancelled
I think I’ll draw the line with the watch. I suspect many doubt the value and are aware of the negative implications of going down the Metaverse route. I see this as going down the same route. In light of the state of the world I’d rather run my toes through real grass rather than simulate it. No thanks.
MacAddict1978
macrumors 68000
If it's as expensive as some predict, it better run independently.
I think the M1 in the iPad pro was more to make the PRO part stand out more. The Air was beating the pro in some bench marks and neck and neck in others. Speed that no one needed in a chip not so far away from what it replaced helps them justify thousand dollar iPads.
If Apple launch something like that, alongside ‘metaverse’ enabled iWork and Office apps, they’d be primed to take advantage of the new covid / remote era. Zoom and MsTeams feel like what BlackBerry was to the IPhone. There’s an opportunity here to really take advantage of Apple gets it right.
Personally, I don’t think they will. They would need to do something transformational and target markets they never have before with billions of dollars of investment. It’s so outside their sweet spot.
But maybe they’ll surprise us.
4jasontv
Suspended
I agree with you, and I have to add that since Apple is a consumer electronics company it doesn't make much sense for them to release a product like this.
I have a rift, quest 2, and hololens. If the product was Questoid in price and user-friendliness while being lighter, had a wider FOV, and all-day battery life than the hololens, I could see value in apple selling one.
Here is what I would want:
1. Lightweight, wireless headset with 8 hours + of battery life.
2. The ability to pair keyboards, mice, gamepads, etc.
3. Field of view, at least 90 degrees.
4. finger tracking.
5. iOS / MacOS integration.
Why? Because then I could simulate any screen (TV, iPad, Macbook, or iMac) anywhere I want to work or play. Since Apple isn't afraid to let one device catabolize another they can just sit back and watch which devices consumers replace with their AR solution while slowly being pulled deeper into the ecosystem.
MisterAndrew
macrumors 68030
VR headsets are really bad for your eyes. You'll quickly develop nearsightedness. They should be banned.
4jasontv
Suspended
Let's explore your thought.
1. They have an audio-video platform that can handle large numbers of simultaneous users.
2. They have their own suite of productivity apps.
3. They make their own cpu and gpus.
4. They have experience building industry-leading camera technology.
5. They have an OS that has been demonstrated to be flexible enough to power a computer, tablet, phone, watch, and TV streaming box each with custom UI and input technology.
6. Their hardware lockdown makes them attractive business solutions.
7. They have strong relationships with legacy media.
8. They have the largest pool of independent developers with a history of forgiving first-party pilfering.
9. They have billions of dollars insulating Irish silos.
10. Their biggest competitor (Meta) in the VR/AR market is generally despised by consumers.
11. Siri is basically Clippy.
IDK, I think they could do it.
4jasontv
Suspended
Source?
I have myopia and I have to wear glasses to use VR suggesting that any degradation with accommodation would be similar to any task that doesn't encourage exercising one's ciliary muscles. Avoiding VR isn't going to prevent genetic causes of refractive errors. If anything VR encourages behaviors that transition between viewing objects near and far. Especially when compared to PC/Phone behaviors.
I would be more than happy to read any studies that contradict those assumptions, but I can't support the notion that VR is bad for eyes based solely on logic.
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Rafterman
macrumors 604
I got a free Oculus that came with a Samsung a few years ago (I ocassionally get an Android as a second phone, just to mess around). It came with a demo of a tour around Italy, or something like that. It was actually pretty impressive, but unless you are really into gaming, I don't see much use for it. Assuming there is much gaming for it. Maybe if Apple gets on board, that will change. But the whole thing was like "eh" for me.
4jasontv
Suspended
Are you referring to the Occulus Gear? The phone-powered one.
Rafterman
macrumors 604
I've read reports where kids should limit use and could be vulnerable to early myopia. But not adults. That warning is a little over the top. I even read this from an eyesight website:
With all of the possible negative effects VR might wreak on our vision, the fine-tuning and further development of virtual reality systems and headsets could actually make our eyes stronger since they have to adjust to maintain binocular vision.
If Apple implements it properly, you'll be able to bring your actual keyboard and mouse into your VR/AR environment. Even Oculus has experimental support for that.
Have you used a VR headset? Just sitting at your desk with virtual screens would be hugely beneficial once weight comes down and you can pull more physical objects into your space. Add on hand tracking and 3D space to work with, you could unlock a lot more too. A big part of the AR/VR future will be integrating physical objects into the space. Honestly, if Apple lets me use my watch and iPhone in VR with no additional features over a Quest 2, I'd probably get it.
Edit: to add, I wouldn't assume web browsing will always be a flat plane. It is right now because that's what our monitors are. A long way off, I'd expect web browsing to change dramatically in VR/AR if it becomes more mainstream.
Regbial
macrumors 6502a
Hasn't it been like 10 years with VR and it just hasn't taken off? My brother and a friend both got the Quest this year and played with it for at most a month and forgot about it... It's a nifty little toy thing, nothing more. (at least at this point, generally...) I could take off it could also... not.
4jasontv
Suspended
I mean VR has been around for a long time, but the first generation Quest came out in 2019. I get that it may seem arbitrary to lean on a specific model but this was the first self-contained (no pc required) consumer model. Early VR software required a lot of GPU power and UX was basically console games mapped to VR controls. What wasn't a conversion was similar to initial app store apps: single task software that feels more like tech demos than real solutions.
It's still something of a wild west out there. The most popular headset (Quest) is vastly underpowered than the PC-dependent ones, but you have to build where the customers are, and quest consumers don't want to spend a lot of money for a short experience. As a result, the best VR experiences have little competition and that breeds sluggishness into the industry.
VR is very popular in niches. Racing sims have been willing to embrace VR support since these are typically low overhead titles, while PlayStation VR (PSVR) offered an alternative platform to encourage development. I say offered because the PSVR is set to be refreshed and it's a lot easier to buy a PS5 than a PSVR kit right now.
unsui_grep
macrumors member
I thought rumors were pointing to two 8k displays.
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/02/04/apple-mixed-reality-headset-features-report/
Or are me expecting something like Sony's recent prototype?
I wonder if they could be sourcing the panels from Sony? Don't they use Sony camera sensors in the iPhone? Seems like they would compete with Sony's next-gen headset, but I guess it would still make sense. It would be incredible if Apple is able to leap-frog Sony and others with two 8K displays. They would certainly make a splash if they got serious about the gaming market.
canyonblue737
macrumors 68020
I love Apple anything and am the definition of a fanboy but I can't imagine for the life of me wanting a VR headset. I don't care how sleek or light they make it what am I supposed to DO with it? games? movies? so weird. i don't want to be shut off from the world around me.
Rafterman
macrumors 604
I agree, but I also said that about an iPad ("it's just a big iPhone, why would I want that?") LOL.
MEJHarrison
macrumors 68000
After spending a year telling everyone I know how much I love my Quest 2, I've come to the conclusion that VR is not for everyone. I got one back around April and have literally played on mine every single day (except for one day about 2 weeks back). At a bare minimum, it's how I close my exercise ring every day. Still, I know people who rarely play on theirs.
One use case I've not seen brought up yet is business. This week a friend and I had a meeting in VR for work. It was mainly to test out the feasibility of using them for work purposes, but it was still quite revealing. I don't think it's the right answer for every problem out there. But for others, I think it could be absolutely amazing. Especially after a year and a half of working from home. One area where I think it could really shine for some on my team is sitting around brainstorming. I was particularly impressed with the white-boarding. It's by far the best substitute I've seen for the real thing. The spacial audio gave a sense of being there, the avatars give us limited, but much needed body-language. Though we've talked on plenty of calls, even video calls, this is the first time I've felt that he and I have hung out together in a room since we started working remotely.
If you replace the headsets we were using with a headset that has the usual Apple polish on it, it could take things to the next level. That said, our Quest 2's were absolutely fantastic in this test. I was even able to share my Mac screen in the meeting. I honestly thought that would only work on a Windows machine, but I was pleasantly surprised.
One final advantage, only my avatar needed to be showered and dressed appropriately for the meeting!
For anyone who cares, it wasn't all plusses. I thought typing in VR is still fairly awkward. I think the next generation of hardware will fix that. To be fair, I had a normal Mac keyboard as my virtual keyboard, but I was using my larger one with the numeric keypad. I need to retest with the right keyboard. And while I was able to share my Mac screen, it was a ridiculously tiny resolution. I suspect Windows would do better there, but we didn't get around to testing it. This problem could probably easily be fixed in a future update. The software we used (Horizon Workrooms) is in beta, so hopefully by release, they'll have that fixed.
VR is still a very new technology. Don't count it out yet just. It's not all games, although it does absolutely shine there. As the hardware continues to get better and better, even more things are going to be possible.
With that said, if Apple does what Apple usually does and releases a $3,000 headset that isn't compatible with any software on the market today, I don't see them selling many. But as a happy VR user, I'm thrilled to see them entering the market and wish them tons of success. Extra competition will benefit everyone.
One use case I've not seen brought up yet is business. This week a friend and I had a meeting in VR for work. It was mainly to test out the feasibility of using them for work purposes, but it was still quite revealing. I don't think it's the right answer for every problem out there. But for others, I think it could be absolutely amazing. Especially after a year and a half of working from home. One area where I think it could really shine for some on my team is sitting around brainstorming. I was particularly impressed with the white-boarding. It's by far the best substitute I've seen for the real thing. The spacial audio gave a sense of being there, the avatars give us limited, but much needed body-language. Though we've talked on plenty of calls, even video calls, this is the first time I've felt that he and I have hung out together in a room since we started working remotely.
If you replace the headsets we were using with a headset that has the usual Apple polish on it, it could take things to the next level. That said, our Quest 2's were absolutely fantastic in this test. I was even able to share my Mac screen in the meeting. I honestly thought that would only work on a Windows machine, but I was pleasantly surprised.
One final advantage, only my avatar needed to be showered and dressed appropriately for the meeting!
For anyone who cares, it wasn't all plusses. I thought typing in VR is still fairly awkward. I think the next generation of hardware will fix that. To be fair, I had a normal Mac keyboard as my virtual keyboard, but I was using my larger one with the numeric keypad. I need to retest with the right keyboard. And while I was able to share my Mac screen, it was a ridiculously tiny resolution. I suspect Windows would do better there, but we didn't get around to testing it. This problem could probably easily be fixed in a future update. The software we used (Horizon Workrooms) is in beta, so hopefully by release, they'll have that fixed.
VR is still a very new technology. Don't count it out yet just. It's not all games, although it does absolutely shine there. As the hardware continues to get better and better, even more things are going to be possible.
With that said, if Apple does what Apple usually does and releases a $3,000 headset that isn't compatible with any software on the market today, I don't see them selling many. But as a happy VR user, I'm thrilled to see them entering the market and wish them tons of success. Extra competition will benefit everyone.
IllinoisCorn
Suspended
I think it will need to be tethered to a phone, like the watch. I guess it would all run off bluetooth LE.
IllinoisCorn
Suspended
What's the software story? I assume it will be geared towards gaming, but the App store games are, for the most part, free to play trash.
I'm super interested in this, but I have no desire to play VR Candy Crush or whatever.
I'm super interested in this, but I have no desire to play VR Candy Crush or whatever.
slplss
macrumors 6502a
I wonder about platform compatibility and target group. I don’t see other use for VR than gaming and some niche jobs that use it for designing/content creation. Gaming on Mac and mobile sucks, and I’m not a VR pro. Maybe they’ll come up with something interesting regarding AR.
One dose of cancer directly to the brain
A lot of people (probably most) can't imagine something until they experience it.
Is there one person in this Apple forum that would pay $3000 for this? Now you'll say "that depends, what will it do?" and I say does it matter? You wouldn't pay $3k for an iPhone or iPad so why would you pay $3k for anything but a full computer for productivity. A $3k or even $2k product like this is not for consumers. It could be for content producers, artists, engineers, game designers, etc. It is not for gamers, content consumers or any other consumer demographic. Not sure why no one seems to question the validity of the rumored price in relation to whom it could benefit.
Users could be able to get their hands on Apple's long-rumored augmented reality (AR) and virtual reality (VR) headset within a year, as rumors begin to zone in on a timeframe for the device's release date.
Concept render of Apple's rumored AR headset by Antonio De Rosa based on drawings from The Information
Apple's headset device, which is expected to offer both AR and VR functionality with applications for gaming, media, and communication, could be in customers hands sooner rather than later, according to recent reports. While an exact date is unknown, the rough timeframe is becoming increasingly clear.
Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo recently said that Apple's headset is on track for launch in the fourth quarter of 2022. Kuo originally said that the device was scheduled for launch in the second quarter of 2022, but after a number of delays with kickstarting mass production, it seems that the fourth quarter is the timeframe Apple is now targeting. The fourth quarter of 2022 runs from October 1 to December 31, meaning that an announcement could be less than 10 months away.
There is also the chance that Apple could offer the first glimpse of its headset at WWDC in June next year to give developers enough time to prepare apps for it ahead of launch. Morgan Stanley analysts say that the project is now "approaching liftoff," with it mirroring the timeline of the Apple Watch's development before its launch.
The headset is expected to offer a lightweight design, two 4K micro-LED displays, 15 optical modules, two main processors, Wi-Fi 6E connectivity, eye tracking, a see-through AR mode, object tracking, and hand gesture controls. The device's exact price point is as yet unclear, but some reports indicate that it could cost customers around $3,000.
For detailed information about everything you need to know about Apple's long-awaited mixed-reality headset, see our comprehensive roundup.
Article Link: Apple's AR/VR Headset Could Be Less Than a Year Away
Ghost31
macrumors 68040
Reminds me of all the talk before iPad came out and everybody thought “no way it’s under a couple thousand bucks!”
Debut at 499
I think Apple is making this for the everyday person. And since most of the computer power will be from iPhone, crap…it’s just a couple screens in front of your face then.