Apple's Craig Federighi: Uncertainty About Face ID Will 'Melt Away' Once People Get iPhone X

[amolediphone]

Oh dear, you really drink the juice don't you...where have I been for the last 10 years? I think the more pertinent question where were Apple for the previous 25 years when the real giants of mobile technology were developing the systems and protocols, the radios, the infrastructure for mobile communications. The giants of manufacturing who make it possible to produce the screens, the chips, the batteries - Apple would be nothing without these real pioneers. Far easier to sit in the cheap seats refining others ideas and products and taking the plaudits for them.

I am not denying that Apple are great at what they do, but let's put it in perspective - I reiterate my view they stand on the shoulders of giants.

Well where would ANY phone manufacturer be without protocols, GSM, cell tower handoff, network design etc...? We're not talking about those, though,

All this angst and we haven't seen a real production iPhone X in the hands of real users with the shipping software.

Pathetic isn't it.

 

[AdonisSMU]

i still think the only reason we have faceID is because Apple couldn't get touch ID to work underneath the OLED screen in time

I don't trust those articles. Afterwards it was revealed that Apple has been all in on faceID for at least a year. Apple revealed that faceIDs a gazillion times more secure than touchID. So even more evidence that Apple believes faceID is the best option for primary use.

Now based on the interviews we learn that Apple believes that both faceID and touchID in addition to other biometrics are useful for the iPhone depending upon the situation. So I wouldn't assume that touchID won't come back. I would assume what was stated that faceID was clearly superior to touchID. The only difference between the iPhone 8 and iPhone X is the faceID vs touchID situation and the display. I think the iPhone 8 should've gotten the better display but I guess they wanted to create middle tier.

 

[doelcm82]

This system makes much more sense for the mac...yet they just put touchID into the MacBook pro

I agree it makes sense for the Mac. I hope that future Macs have Face ID (though I just bought a new MBP, so it will be several years before I need a new one).

Probably Face ID wasn't ready for prime time when they added TouchID to the MBP a year ago.

 

[seclusion]

Yes for iPad...
Wonder how they'll do it for my cMP...
Maybe in the 40” monitor they are making...

 

[wozmatic]

What about the notch? Will that melt away too ?

LOL that notch is awful looking, can't believe they released it like this.

Is the extra 5mm of screen really needed? Seriously Apple... get your ish together

 

[AdonisSMU]

Its very clear Craig knows this software very well and maybe even at a code level. The way he's describing the behavior and bugs with the buttons and security makes me think this.

 

[Bethanie21]

Personally I don't need the latest technology. I'm happy with TouchID, so I'll stick to what I know. Not bothered that FaceID is 'more secure'. To me, it's not worth a grand. Hope everyone getting the X has fun scanning their face.

 

[amolediphone]

LOL that notch is awful looking, can't believe they released it like this.

Is the extra 5mm of screen really needed? Seriously Apple... get your ish together

Okay, how would you have designed it - explain your ideas, show your drawings, give your rationale for each step.

 

[Karma*Police]

It would required multiple additional sensors, thus taking up space and what for? The better face ID becomes, the less relevant the discussion will be.


Only thing I don't like about getting rid of the bottom is the fact Apple have replaced it with awful gestures. They could have done much much better gestures imho ie a force Touch gesture for the home button instead of the swipe up. Thus keeping the swipe up for control centre.

Instead they have moved that gesture to the very top right of a large device.
[doublepost=1505541577][/doublepost]
The stuff in android phones and windows hello have been working for years. Windows hello especially.

Technically, fingerprint readers worked for years before Touch ID. But no one really used them, just like no one really uses facial recognition systems on Android/Windows for similar reasons... slow, not reliable and/or not secure. Nothing out there falls into the "it just works" category the way Apple is promoting Face ID.

As they say, the proof is in the pudding and I'm looking forward to testing it out myself. Until then, based on Apple's track record, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[AdonisSMU]

I am very sorry but Apple is a bunch of elderly geeks wanting to relive their childhood by incorporating silly features in a phone. We can make a cartoon character of our faces... That's useful. Face Id , that did not work very well during the keynote. These new versions of iPhone are very expensive. Tim said that Apple wasn't building stuff for the rich which is a flat out lie. I am greatly disappointed in what Apple has created recently. I believe Apple is pricing themselves out of business because of their greed. A thousand dollars for a mobile phone. Apple is really insane.

Snap chat and Instagram are billion dollar companies who make a killing off off this stuff. Their audience skews younger. Clearly its not just the elderly who like these features.

 

[wozmatic]

Cool, anyone can take your phone and point it at your face...

Unlocked

Touch ID however is a lot harder to wrangle someones thumb onto the home button, unless they're asleep. But the Face ID can also be hacked if someone's asleep.

Also, why the heck do we need that extra 1/2" of screen to remove the home button? It's not even useful or practical to have it. The screen real estate is fine as it it, and a nice rectangle. The iPhone X has the fugly looking top notch thing as well. So brutal

A video looks stupid like this, and it would never look like this because a video would be cropped within the screen, and the size would most likely be the same as the current iPhones. Therefore, what's the point? It looks bad and it functions poorly, makes no sense..

Such a dumb design

I hate Face ID
I hate the loss of a home button
I hate the stupid home swipe up, it's more work now.
I hate the control center swipe down from the top right. (and have fun with that plus users...)

I hate the iPhone X

 

[boswald]

Sorry, too invasive for me.

 

[AdonisSMU]

How the heck is it arrogant if you try a new technology? You're sipping too much Apple juice. Seeing your username, if Samsung didn't put AMOLED in every single Galaxy S since inception, you wouldn't be having the iPhone X. R&D is a huge part of companies. The reason why Apple buys a lot of smaller companies is because they eliminate a lot of the threats from the ''arrogant companies''. Samsung kick-started the phablet category and ate into the iPad's market share. Waiting for other people to complete their own R&D is risky and plain stupid. You run the risk of eventually being outclassed, especially in today's ubiquitous smartphone market.

AMOLED had real issues when it was initially released. its only been in the last few years that AMOLED was been good enough to use in an iPhone. Samsung did kick off the Phablet category. Changing the size of the product is not exactly a huge accomplishment TBQH.

Federighi doesn’t do hardware.

And they did discuss the notch and at least one of its short comings. You have to listen to the podcast.
[doublepost=1505571519][/doublepost]

Cool, anyone can take your phone and point it at your face...

Unlocked

Touch ID however is a lot harder to wrangle someones thumb onto the home button, unless they're asleep. But the Face ID can also be hacked if someone's asleep.

Also, why the heck do we need that extra 1/2" of screen to remove the home button? It's not even useful or practical to have it. The screen real estate is fine as it it, and a nice rectangle. The iPhone X has the fugly looking top notch thing as well. So brutal

A video looks stupid like this, and it would never look like this because a video would be cropped within the screen, and the size would most likely be the same as the current iPhones. Therefore, what's the point? It looks bad and it functions poorly, makes no sense..

Such a dumb design

I hate Face ID
I hate the loss of a home button
I hate the stupid home swipe up, it's more work now.
I hate the control center swipe down from the top right. (and have fun with that plus users...)

I hate the iPhone X

This just reads like a person who's afraid of change even if Apple is changing to more secure technology. You can't actually just point a phone at your face and it will unlock. You have to actually be actively paying attention and focused for it to unlock.

 

[Quu]

When they introduced TouchID they never took out the numeral input to unlock. So it wasn't as big of a deal as they're making out. Most people who were against the feature just said it'd not work and they weren't bothered.

Now though they are taking out TouchID to replace it with FaceID so we are losing a material feature we trust and know. FaceID requiring a swipe up after you bring it to your face is already an extra step TouchID never had. Same with Apple Pay, you have to click the side button twice to acknowledge a payment where as before you just had your thumb already positioned on the TouchID sensor when you touched your phone to the reader.

It's inconvenient Craig and that's if it even works as intended. Apple, stop making things more complicated, keep it simple.

 

[wozmatic]

Okay, how would you have designed it - explain your ideas, show your drawings, give your rationale for each step.

Sure, I'd make it look like the iPhone 8. The iPhone 8 is a good design.

My rationale, people like using a home button, it makes sense functionally and doesn't interfere with use.

Swiping as a home button adds more work for the user, it also complicates your gestures, can interfere with other apps and their gestures, etc.

Also, making the control center a swipe down from the top right is horrible. Have fun doing that with one hand on a Plus model. It's already a challenge on the 7 regular size and I have average sized hands.

It's gonna take 2 hands to make a simple change or action in control center, that's moving backwards in function.

And straight up that notch is poorly executed design. People will look back and go "Bahhh that's ugly"

Good designers design for the future, this is not the future. I understand the idea of Face ID and Apple wanting to be introducing something new, but they choked on this one.

Functionally, adding the 1/2" of screen space isn't needed, what does it allow you to actually do? Nothing. It's so so so dumb.

I could go on.

Straight up, they just handed Google a huge gift with this iPhone X release, I'd bet the Pixel 2 will convert iPhone users now and in the future if Apple continues with a removed home button device.

 

[danakin]

So was Gruber told he could only talk about Face ID? His comments about the notch on his website are quite harsh so why didn’t he ask Craig the reasoning behind that? Afraid he’d never get another interview if he says ‘I’m not a fan of the notch, what we’re you thinking’?

Good questions. This is why I have a hard time taking Gruber seriously as a "journalist". My gut feeling is that his livelihood is too tied to Apple for him to be objective enough to ask the question you referenced.

 

[UltimateSyn]

Facepalm. The "option of both" leads to a higher chance of being fooled, not lower.

How do you figure? If you needed to be authenticated by both before unlocking, someone would need both a matching face and fingerprint.

With independent events P(A and B) = P(A) * P(B)

Good job trying to make me feel dumb though!

 

[wozmatic]

"I hate X
I hate Y
I hate Z

In fact, why stop there - I hate the whole alphabet!"

Yeah? And most sane, balanced people hate IGNORANCE and gratuitous speculation, not to mention gratuitous speculation based on thin air experience.

Flush your buffers, clear your mind, stop "hating" like a child, and listen...
https://daringfireball.net/thetalkshow/2017/09/15/ep-200

Cool, and I guess you hate my comment, so you're hater too?

It's a product, I'm allowed to hate it.

I'll show some love though, I love the iPhone 7. (the rear camera protrusion is still ugly and that's the only design flaw, and probably the aux jack too, carrying around an adapter isn't cool)

My hate comes with reason:

1) Why would a user actually need the extra screen space at the top and bottom?

2) In what world does that notch look good?

3) How is swiping down from the top right for control center better functionality?

4) Is swiping instead of a home button more efficient?

5) This price is getting out of hand, not competitive.

[doublepost=1505572417][/doublepost]

When they introduced TouchID they never took out the numeral input to unlock. So it wasn't as big of a deal as they're making out. Most people who were against the feature just said it'd not work and they weren't bothered.

Now though they are taking out TouchID to replace it with FaceID so we are losing a material feature we trust and know. FaceID requiring a swipe up after you bring it to your face is already an extra step TouchID never had. Same with Apple Pay, you have to click the side button twice to acknowledge a payment where as before you just had your thumb already positioned on the TouchID sensor when you touched your phone to the reader.

It's inconvenient Craig and that's if it even works as intended. Apple, stop making things more complicated, keep it simple.

EXACTLY.

 

[flat five]

Yes it does apply to Face ID as well. I answered the person who stated that you needed three steps for Touch ID to access Home which was wrong.

oops. my bad.
sorry

 

[johngordon]

i'd agree, but it is not new tech, it is apple playing catch up.

What tech specifically?

I don't know much about it - did phones from a few years ago work the same way as FaceID?

 

[PizzaBoxStyle]

You do know that almost every single remote uses IR light to function, and has for 30 plus years. Not to mention that the sun also puts out IR and at an intensity thousands of times what any phone could hope to produce? And that your body also produces IR waves. That's how night vision goggles work, they detect the heat coming objects in the infrared (IR) wavelength. If Night Vision had to first shoot a beam of IR light then that gives away the existence of the people using it. Anything that generates heat generates IR.

You do know, right, that I was being a tad bit dramatic for comic effect, like right?????

Also (laughing): when is the last time you pointed your TV remote directly into your eyes?

 

[johngordon]

Cool, and I guess you hate my comment, so you're hater too?

It's a product, I'm allowed to hate it.

I'll show some love though, I love the iPhone 7. (the rear camera protrusion is still ugly and that's the only design flaw, and probably the aux jack too, carrying around an adapter isn't cool)

My hate comes with reason:

1) Why would a user actually need the extra screen space at the top and bottom?

2) In what world does that notch look good?

3) How is swiping down from the top right for control center better functionality?

4) Is swiping instead of a home button more efficient?
[doublepost=1505572417][/doublepost]

EXACTLY.

To be fair, those might be reasons for having one preference over another.

But reasons to hate something? Meh. Not so much.

 

[AdonisSMU]

Cool, and I guess you hate my comment, so you're hater too?

It's a product, I'm allowed to hate it.

I'll show some love though, I love the iPhone 7. (the rear camera protrusion is still ugly and that's the only design flaw, and probably the aux jack too, carrying around an adapter isn't cool)

My hate comes with reason:

1) Why would a user actually need the extra screen space at the top and bottom?

2) In what world does that notch look good?

3) How is swiping down from the top right for control center better functionality?

4) Is swiping instead of a home button more efficient?
[doublepost=1505572417][/doublepost]

EXACTLY.

1) agreed but its what was able to be done now.
2) no one is saying it looks good. sometimes a balance of practicality happens to get the product that's almost perfect out there.
3) I don't disagree with this. However, It used to annoy me that Touch ID would take me straight to the apps when sometimes all I wanted to do was look at the notifications. I know you can swipe down the left side for that but swipe up exists to prove the intent of the user.
4) yes, when it means you have significantly more screen real estate.

 

[UltimateSyn]

That's some bad maths for Christ sake. If touch ID is only good once out of 50,000 times then if Apple combined their technologies touch ID would still be only be good 1 out of 50.000 times. Adding something or different ways of doing things isn't going to make things better.

Also you would combine the two systems. So 1 out of 50,000 plus one out of a million. Why are you multiplying the two things together? Just so you get a big dumb number?

What? Why would you add them?? Just think about it. Say you have set your phone so that both TouchID and FaceID need to authenticate you before it lets you in.

Now somebody picks your phone up, and there’s a 1 in 50,000 chance they match your TouchID. Now that they’re past that, they have a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of fooling the FaceID.

It’s basic probability: to find the probability of two independent events happening at the same time, you multiply their probabilities together.

 

[wozmatic]

To be fair, those might be reasons for having one preference over another.

But reasons to hate something? Meh. Not so much.

Then replace hate with "I don't like this and will not buy it"

Apple is a company and the objective is profits, make poor products and people will buy others instead.

October 4th will be interesting...