Apple's Exposure Notification System Guide

[Val-kyrie]

You have to have an app for it to do anything

Purportedly. For now....

The OS has an off switch. Sure, you might not trust the OS to honour it. But if you don’t, why would you trust the OS to not having tracked you for the last decade?

Right... just like turning off WiFi and Bluetooth from Control Center on my iPhone completely turns them* off?!?! /s

 

[manu chao]

Once again, it’s not a data/privacy issue, it’s an ideological/societal one.

And privacy is not an ideological/societal issue?

I will not have my phone pinging me just because someone else has gotten sick. If I get sick, I’ll take appropriate measures.

So you do get tested daily to ensure that you can take appropriate measures (of self-isolation) as soon as you get infected? Essentially having the same attitude as Pence in regard to mask wearing?
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'transmitting entirely anonymous identifier beacons'

We know now this is not possible in this day and time. Data will be breached.

So why are you using a cellphone let alone a smartphone in the first place? Since you know everything the phone knows will eventually be breached.
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It’s encouraging to see many of the comments here are sceptical of this service. History shows that governments all all too happy to infringe on personal rights and liberties under the guise of ‘safety;’

And yet you are using a smartphone...

 

[ryanwarsaw]

If you compare the unemployment rate in the U.S. and South Korea, are you sure you prefer the land of the free’s approach?
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Let me think... I don't plan on moving to Korea. I have lived in Asia and travelled there before. I will give a hard pass to the Korean way of life.

As somebody else said the thing pings what are you supposed to do? Nightmare for OCD people. I also support peoples right to leave their homes and maybe actually go to the beach. Maybe go spend three months in Korea and see if their total approach to life is something that fits you.

 

[TechieGeek]

Right... just like turning off WiFi and Bluetooth from Control Center on my iPhone completely turns off LTE?!?! /s

Oh if only Apple showed a message "disconnecting from WiFi until tomorrow morning" when you tap those buttons.....oh wait, Apple does show that exact message.

We've been through this before. This isn't a "turn off" toggle, it's a temporary disconnect toggle. This makes sense to 99% of users.

 

[manu chao]

I trust Apple more than Google, but my greatest fear is how government bureaucrats might abuse this.

They can abuse what Apple and Google give them (here via the API to the app), which is nothing until the moment you confirm a positive COVID19 test. Only then your history of random identifiers is send to a server.

 

[now i see it]

here's a scenario that hasn't been explained:

Two strangers who have never been near each other, turn this app on and participate.
Person 1 gets sick and reports it to the app.

But since Person 2 never has been near Person 1, Bluetooth identifiers were never exchanged.

While Person 1 is still infected (and contagious) he HAS to still go out to the store to get food. When he's waiting in line, (next to Person 1) will Person 1 get an ALARM immediately that there's a person nearby who is a leper?

• Will it be real time? Or always old news with a time lag?

If it's REAL TIME (Alert! Alert! Infected Person Nearby) are hoards of people (using the app) going to spill out of doorways in panic the moment the Leper enters the store?

If yes - not good.
If no - contact tracing won't protect you

 

[manu chao]

I don't get it - how does this help? Near the end of their scenario it says, "allowing everyone to better monitor for potential exposure". But then what? If this system alerts me what am I supposed to do - stay away from all humans for 2 or 3 days? And then what? What exactly are we (society) gaining by this? What am I missing?

Once you get alerted you should get tested ASAP and ideally self-isolate until you are confirmed to be negative. The alert should also allow you to get qualified for a test with your local health provider/authorities.

 

[locovaca]

The OS has an off switch. Sure, you might not trust the OS to honour it. But if you don’t, why would you trust the OS to not having tracked you for the last decade?

You didn't read the the first post.

You need to read the verbiage CAREFULLY. This has been discussed in other threads. The only thing the switch does is disable notifications. It does not disable the beacons with your device identifiers. There is no known way of disabling that.

 

[Complex757]

Your phone already knows everything about you. I don't think anyone on this forum has a little flip phone.

 

[Professor Rucy]

Is there an API to tell me when I’m getting too close to a snowflake?

 

[manu chao]

Would my identify, location, and all of the other things kept private in the technology still be kept private even through the health authority app?

The app interacts with API and the API only gives the app an exposure notification and the date of the exposure. The random identifier storage and matching happens within the API.

 

[ryanwarsaw]

here's a scenario that hasn't been explained:

Two strangers who have never been near each other, turn this app on and participate.
Person 1 gets sick and reports it to the app.

But since Person 2 never has been near Person 1, Bluetooth identifiers were never exchanged.

While Person 1 is still infected (and contagious) he HAS to still go out to the store to get food. When he's waiting in line, (next to Person 1) will Person 1 get an ALARM immediately that there's a person nearby who is a leper?

• Will it be real time? Or always old news with a time lag?

If it's REAL TIME (Alert! Alert! Infected Person Nearby) are hoards of people (using the app) going to spill out of doorways in panic the moment the Leper enters the store?

If yes - not good.
If no - contact tracing won't protect you

That reminds me of apps like Grindr. You look on the app and realize the person is 15 feet behind you. LOL It does get awkward.

 

[manu chao]

Here’s a thought: exposure is NOT the same thing as infection.

Which is why exposure notification is only one step in the process of contact tracing, getting tested is a necessary next one.

 

[and 1989 others]

Technologically speaking it is a great system. Then they give the governments free rein. What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

 

[manu chao]

Two strangers who have never been near each other, turn this app on and participate.
Person 1 gets sick and reports it to the app.

But since Person 2 never has been near Person 1, Bluetooth identifiers were never exchanged.

While Person 1 is still infected (and contagious) he HAS to still go out to the store to get food. When he's waiting in line, (next to Person 1) will Person 1 get an ALARM immediately that there's a person nearby who is a leper?

• Will it be real time? Or always old news with a time lag?

How frequently a phone downloads the list of identifiers of positive people has not been made public yet and has probably not even been decided yet (as well as whether the checking-against-this-list is periodically done or constantly). But once that system is in place, these are variables that can be changed pretty easily.

 

[Professor Rucy]

Thanks, but no thanks. I dont want to be a part of this fascicist surveillance program. I want my ******* rights back.

AMEN. It won’t be long before the “iCloud Data Breach Reveals Health Data of Potentially Millions With COVID-19 Diagnoses” headline.

 

[itsmilo]

Already disabled it on the beta, not that my government is gonna release an app anytime soon anyway

 

[manu chao]

Technologically speaking it is a great system. Then they give the governments free rein. What could POSSIBLY go wrong?

What information do you think is given to the governments exactly? Unless they actually hack your phone, the governments can only get what the API gives to their apps.
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AMEN. It won’t be long before the “iCloud Data Breach Reveals Health Data of Potentially Millions With COVID-19 Diagnoses” headline.

Well, if somebody can breach the locally stored data on your phone, they already know everything about you.
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You need to read the verbiage CAREFULLY. This has been discussed in other threads. The only thing the switch does is disable notifications. It does not disable the beacons with your device identifiers. There is no known way of disabling that.

The verbiage is also still in beta. Let’s wait what it actually says in the release version.

 

[hourglass111]

And privacy is not an ideological/societal issue?

So you do get tested daily to ensure that can take appropriate measures (of self-isolation) as soon as you get infected? Essentially having the same attitude as Pence in regard to mask wearing?
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Privacy can certainly be an ideological/societal issue. I simply mean that the data is not the issue in this case in my opinion. Apple has handled it as well as possible. Unlike some, I actually “trust Apple” with my data.

I don’t know/care what Pence did. But it doesn’t surprise me that this is being played into a liberal/anti-liberal argument to varying degrees. Let me certify that I am 1) not conservative nor generally conservative-supporting, 2) not supportive of this surveillance effort, largely because of the implications it has down the road more than with COVID, and 3) will not get a vaccine due to the various ways this medical system has already harmed my body (EG by being floxxed with ciprofloxacin which I mentioned in another post).

Good luck fitting me into an ideological system or comparing me to an acceptable/unacceptable figure to try to make a point.

 

[Daveoc64]

• Will it be real time? Or always old news with a time lag?

If it's REAL TIME (Alert! Alert! Infected Person Nearby) are hoards of people (using the app) going to spill out of doorways in panic the moment the Leper enters the store?

If yes - not good.
If no - contact tracing won't protect you

The point is not that it protects you by stopping you getting infected, but that it stops you potentially spreading the virus to friends, family, and colleagues, as well as strangers around you.

If a lot of people use the app, then it will help protect you, because people who have come into contact with infected people won't be out in public.

here's a scenario that hasn't been explained:

Two strangers who have never been near each other, turn this app on and participate.
Person 1 gets sick and reports it to the app.

But since Person 2 never has been near Person 1, Bluetooth identifiers were never exchanged.

While Person 1 is still infected (and contagious) he HAS to still go out to the store to get food.

Generally speaking, people who have come into contact with someone that has the virus will be advised to stay home and to not leave home for any purpose (even purchasing food - you should try to get it delivered, or have family/friends drop it off).

Local advice may vary - in some countries, you could be arrested for leaving home if you know that you are infected or potentially infected.

 

[manu chao]

Concerned, not afraid.

Hey, I just reused your choice of words.

Concern is productive. It means I encourage people to up their vitamin D as that appears to be a major predisposition to getting COVID. (I saw today that Europe was doing a study.) If a person is not confident in having basic health, then I encourage them to take precautions.

Motivating others to, eg, wearing masks would also be something productive.

If this were the bubonic plague? Okay. Track me and everyone else. But it isn’t, it’s just being hyped up that it is.

Again again again, I’d be more concerned if someone I love got HIV because that’s a lifetime of management (as far as I’m aware; waiting to be corrected).

It might not be the bubonic plague, but the economic effects of the countermeasures could be akin to the Great Depression. If you have the choice between a lockdown and anonymous contact tracing, which do you prefer?

I also have an aunt with lupus who still has a flip phone. Neither concern nor fear nor Big Brother precedent is going to help her save herself and the world with some noble yet suspicious tracking API/agenda. Only her mindfulness and supporting her baseline of health will, and ultimately that’s all that will help any of us.

Sure, because other people not getting infected (or getting isolated once infected) has zero influence on her risk of getting infected.

 

[QCassidy352]

I also have an aunt with lupus who still has a flip phone. Neither concern nor fear nor Big Brother precedent is going to help her save herself and the world with some noble yet suspicious tracking API/agenda. Only her mindfulness and supporting her baseline of health will, and ultimately that’s all that will help any of us.

This is demonstrably incorrect. Testing and contact tracing can and do help save lives. Lots of lives. Please see the data from South Korea, which has been a world leader for dealing with this virus through test and trace.

 

[citysnaps]

I trust Apple more than Google, but my greatest fear is how government bureaucrats might abuse this.

How would that happen? Say, during the pandemic, and afterwards.

If you can, please post some concrete examples on how that government abuse might occur, for each time period. And how that would affect you and others.

 

[Caliber26]

Once again, it’s not a data/privacy issue, it’s an ideological/societal one.

I will not have my phone pinging me just because someone else has gotten sick. If I get sick, I’ll take appropriate measures. But I’m not walking around waiting to get pinged. In high density areas like a city, you’ll be at risk for getting more pings about COVID than texts from friends and colleagues.

To me, this is simply obnoxious; but imagine the people who already can’t handle anxiety or mainstream fear paranoia, how will they do with being pinged about their potential acute death sentence multiple times a day?

Furthermore, unless I end up in hospital from symptoms, I won’t be pursuing a COVID test because of how haphazardly it’s assumed I should suddenly be tracked. That’s a big NO. I was not opposed to getting tested until seeing how a positive test suddenly comes with all of these assumptions and implied actions to take next.

All of this is a red flag setting precedent for worse things. In the other thread I used the example of HIV/AIDS. That’s something that “should” have contact tracing, yet it does not. So far we can statistically say that people recover from COVID. Not so with HIV, which is a death sentence* on maintenance. So I find this COVID tracking supremely suspicious.

If you’ve got no problem with this, then get ahead of the curve you’re flattening and imagine a future where you’re pinged for passing a stranger with COVID … then passing one with HIV … then passing one with Herpes … etc. It’s all inappropriate.

The violation of privacy is not with the data (which I applaud Apple for handling well), but with the idea of allowing our health to be broadcast and allowing our personal devices invaded with pings from those who willy-nilly broadcast their health out of some noble sense of saving the world.

It would honestly make more sense to have no privacy and share everyone’s contact info. That way if you, Person Who Supports Tracking, pass me and get me sick, then I can sue your insurance to cover my healthcare to get sick. How does that sound? Just like with a car accident.

After all, contacting COVID and ending up in hospital in the US is more likely a financial death sentence than an actual death sentence. Statistically speaking, anyway.

EDIT: Corrected typo of not including the word “sentence.”

You said it best. This isn’t about privacy concerns. This is about not wanting to support a police state where high tech surveillance, bio-paranoia, and the forced quarantine of selected people at a moment’s notice. Big Brother is now a “savior” as the constant tracking of individuals and the people they come in contact with is portrayed as the only solution to save lives.

They’re looking to instill a perpetual state of fear and paranoia under the guise of public safety. It’s amazing how many people are willing to submit without hesitation.

 

[Rocko99991]

You said it best. This isn’t about privacy concerns. This is about not wanting to support a police state where high tech surveillance, bio-paranoia, and the forced quarantine of selected people at a moment’s notice. Big Brother is now a “savior” as the constant tracking of individuals and the people they come in contact with is portrayed as the only solution to save lives.

They’re looking to instill a perpetual state of fear and paranoia under the guise of public safety. It’s amazing how many people are willing to submit without hesitation.

Critical thinking left the building years ago. 9/11 and the terror alerts was the 2000's version of what we are seeing now.