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Apple's Exposure Notification System Guide
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Excellent, succinct argument. Well put. Hopefully the loud “not me” people are vastly outnumbered by the people like us who are excited for this.
You don’t care that the vice president refused to wear a mask while visiting a hospital with COVID19 patients while everybody else in the hospital has to wear a mask (and did so) because he thinks rules don’t apply to him and wearing a mask would make him look weak?
You can be sick (and more importantly, infectious) while being asymptomatic. This is a fact. You can have it and not know, then pass it to all those around you. It's not just you, but them, you should factor into your decision. You can also turn off notifications. if the app designers build it properly, the info should still be in the app if you want it without needing the push notification.
If you are tested positive but either asymptomatic, or the symptoms are not severe, they send you home for quarantining — you don't get an ankle bracelet or anything. And they definitely don't make you download an app and broadcast the result.
That's a fair question with a simple answer — it is much harder to transmit HIV/AIDS than it is Covid-19. Covid-19 can be contracted at a distance with no physical interaction and HIV/AIDS cannot. Covid-19 can live without a host on surfaces for up to 3 days and HIV/AIDS cannot. Plus, depending on if you have HIV or AIDS, some are HIV+ with an undetectable viral load, meaning they can't communicate the disease to others even with unprotected sex. So the reality is that while HIV/AIDS is much more dangerous in general, it is leagues harder to transmit the virus than it is to transmit COVID-19. Also, it isn't necessarily a death sentence anymore, ask Magic Johnson and a whole host of others who have lived relatively healthy lives (bodies haven't deteriorated, can fight off general infections) for decades. Not that anyone shouldn't still be cautious when intimate with someone who is HIV+.
The difference here is that people who acquire Covid-19 don't stay infected — it either runs its course or you die. The point of contact tracing is to measure the spread and detect if a second wave is coming because you can transmit without symptoms. Contact tracing for HIV/AIDS is less effective because you cannot contract it just by standing beside someone.
Your specific health is not being broadcast at all — an anonymous identifier is and no one will be able to discern who it is unless you only interact with one person, at which point you should already know. Also — as far as Pings go — if you are social distancing you will get few if any at all and you always have to option to turn the notifications off.
With all due respect that makes no sense. If you test positive, you should immediately be self-quarantining (so you shouldn't be running into them at all). This is about people who don't know they have it, you come in contact with them, then a few days afterwards they show symptoms, get tested and it comes back positive. If you contracted it but didn't know until you showed signs, why should I sue you, if you only find out when you showed symptoms days later?
Here we absolutely agree.
The idea that one has to rely on the actions of others to stay safe goes so against the grain of supporters of individualism.
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I've removed my post due to it being unnecessarily abrasive.
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That would actually scare me more — at least here the government doesn't have the data, just access to the API. I am not a Tin-foil Hat wearer, but I would much rather a third-party that can be held accountable for misuse than a government that can pass laws after the fact and say what they have acquired is fair use to continue to leverage.UK NHSX app here... oh, we're using something else, so this story is already entirely irrelevant to us here.
Oh well, never mind, hey!
I consider myself an individualist in many respects, but I also base decisions on logic and rationality. No matter how much of an individualist you are, this API simply does not infringe on individual liberty, and to argue it does is to willfully ignore the way the technology actually works. Nobody is tracking you, nobody is monitoring you, nobody is restricting you from doing anything or compelling you to do anything.
As for the “slippery slope” argument, I am unimpressed. Almost anything can be bad if taken to its extreme conclusion, including simply owning a smartphone to begin with. We can and should be smart enough to differentiate between things that actually infringe on liberty interests and things that kinda-sorta look like maybe they could, but actually don’t, and to react to those different things accordingly.
The conspiracy theorists in this subject though....man some people just don't perceive reality. They think they see reality clearer than anyone else and then they bash you around with their holy doctrines and whatever mantras and dogmas that wee drilled into them by some freedumb conspiracy site. You live in America. You are Apple customers. You're not in China being tracked on the HuawaiOnePlusWechattoktik.
No, but you can't get infected if you are not exposed (you aren't going to spontaneously develop the virus), so knowing if you are exposed will tell you if you may have been infected or not. What you are saying is akin to saying being nominated is not the same as winning an award — obviously — but you should want to know because you don't want this award.
Wow, someone who sees the big picture on MacRumors. That was refreshing to read, thank you.
Actually we don't know that. I suspect the switch will turn of the beacons, if only to save battery life. In any case this will be easy to verify.
Actually, HIV has been reclassified from “terminal” (thou shalt surely die... soon) to “chronic” (it might suck from time to time, but you can live with it, and die from something else).
Which is quite an amazing feat we (as a group) have accomplished in the past 30+-ish years (roughly c. 1985).
Edit: and yes, I know you said “on maintenance”, but the classification change is still important to note.
c.f.: https://futurism.com/hiv-is-no-longer-a-terminal-illness-heres-how-we-got-here
One would hope they'd order delivery instead.
It is not "real time" for two reasons:
- An exposure notification will only be triggered if you are close to a diagnosed person for a certain minimum amount of time, e.g. 10 minutes (this is up to the app). This would delay the notification in your example.
- The IDs of diagnosed persons are downloaded periodically, but they are not pushed.
Surprised Facebook doesn’t want in on this action - we all know how innocent they are, and just want to help
It's not really realtime, that's not how it works because...
That means who you have been in contact with is only on your phone, anonymously, which leads me to...
Meaning the only way you get a ping in realtime is because it is a person you have already had contact with, and you are running into them again. if I have been exposed to the same person twice who tested positive — as rare as that could be — I'd be running to get tested and I'd be pissed that person if endangering others so calously if they knew (got tested) and still went out. Lots of places deliver.
Wouldn't happen unless you have run into them previously to even be on your radar.
It's not about protection — the only way to protect yourself it to social distance, self-isolate, bulk up your immune system with Vitamin B, and try to wear a mask if you know you will run into the public. This is about understanding how the infection is moving, helping the health system focus only on the sever cases and not be inundated with testing of those who haven't been exposed.
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No, it doesn't have identifiers — that's the whole point.
You need to read the verbiage CAREFULLY.
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Oh good, a fake opt out button that is just a placebo not connected to the OS, except maybe to report you to the authorities for trying to protect your privacy. How quickly the Totalitarian yoke has been put around our necks.
The verbiage "Exposure Notification" makes me wonder if the phones will always be exchanging bluetooth pings, and always be storing the 14 days of info locally, no matter what you choose. The "opt-in" feature might just be to get notifications. The original nomenclature was "contact tracing" which sounds more accurate to an always-on background process, and I'm wondering if that's the reality.
Then for the sake of everyone else, stay home until the vaccine is perfected - we don't want you endangering other people's lives.
I love this polarized discussion. It shows you how we are still just a bunch of animals. Bulls and bears.
Personally, I have witnessed in myself how technology has a shackling tendency. Combine the massive and repeated dopamine hits with the spikes in cortisol, we are truly addicted to our devices and what they provide.
The way I see it, this pursuit of contact-tracing just gives more momentum to that snowball.
Most of our days, we are chained to our technology. Exercise? Gotta record and upload to Strava. Vacation? Gotta take pictures and post to Instagram. Reading? Gotta record my books with Goodreads. And now, wanna take a yoga class? Open up Zoom and stream it, alone.
The farther we get away from each other, the closer we get to our devices and the more we are pushed to find an empty connection through "social" media, a human connection that's intrinsic to our well-being and growth.
Impossible to believe, but somehow this even happens to people living together under the same roof.
The can of worms has been opened and this is going to happen and is happening, just be aware of how it affects your mind and your happiness. With this tech, our devices with drive us further away from trust and empathy and connection, left in a hole of longing to really feel close to our own species and kind.
One day there will be no fear, we accept our ultimate finite lives and learn to hold space and love for each other, even in the worst plagues among near certain death. Dying isn't so scary when surrounded by a deep unconditional love.
Someday. Until then, let's get that snowball rolling so we will one day, BOOM. Wake up.
Personally, I have witnessed in myself how technology has a shackling tendency. Combine the massive and repeated dopamine hits with the spikes in cortisol, we are truly addicted to our devices and what they provide.
The way I see it, this pursuit of contact-tracing just gives more momentum to that snowball.
Most of our days, we are chained to our technology. Exercise? Gotta record and upload to Strava. Vacation? Gotta take pictures and post to Instagram. Reading? Gotta record my books with Goodreads. And now, wanna take a yoga class? Open up Zoom and stream it, alone.
The farther we get away from each other, the closer we get to our devices and the more we are pushed to find an empty connection through "social" media, a human connection that's intrinsic to our well-being and growth.
Impossible to believe, but somehow this even happens to people living together under the same roof.
The can of worms has been opened and this is going to happen and is happening, just be aware of how it affects your mind and your happiness. With this tech, our devices with drive us further away from trust and empathy and connection, left in a hole of longing to really feel close to our own species and kind.
One day there will be no fear, we accept our ultimate finite lives and learn to hold space and love for each other, even in the worst plagues among near certain death. Dying isn't so scary when surrounded by a deep unconditional love.
Someday. Until then, let's get that snowball rolling so we will one day, BOOM. Wake up.
Just curious. How many here against this also :
* keeps their phone and all computers inside faraday bags when not in use (if they use such devices at all)
* never brings a phone to their residence
* never has mail or packages delivered to their residence
* never uses a credit card
* never titles property (house or car) in their name
* never takes out a consumer loan
* always uses a vpn they self-host
* doesn’t use Facebook, Twitter, or even Macrumors?
The privacy concerns of this API are orders of magnitude less than any of the things listed above. Just sayin’.
* keeps their phone and all computers inside faraday bags when not in use (if they use such devices at all)
* never brings a phone to their residence
* never has mail or packages delivered to their residence
* never uses a credit card
* never titles property (house or car) in their name
* never takes out a consumer loan
* always uses a vpn they self-host
* doesn’t use Facebook, Twitter, or even Macrumors?
The privacy concerns of this API are orders of magnitude less than any of the things listed above. Just sayin’.
OK, seriously, it's right there.
There is a toggle for the system, and then a toggle for the app you will have downloaded of your own volition. This is important — That top toggle is for the system, whichmeans it's still there if you haven't installed an app. The app gives you the push notifications (if you have been exposed to someone infected) not the system. You are conflating the two becasue of the name "Exposure Notification" they are using for their contact tracing system.Disabling Exposure Notification
You can disable Exposure Notification entirely by following the steps in our how to, and there will also be options to toggle off the feature on a per-app basis if multiple apps that use the API are installed. Apps that you have installed that use the API will be listed in the Privacy settings on your iPhone.
<img src="/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.macrumors.com%2Farticle-new%2F2020%2F04%2Fexposurenotificationappsinstalled.jpg&hash=e2b931323ea6693ad38c7d73f9d42b74" data-url="https://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2020/04/exposurenotificationappsinstalled.jpg" class="bbImage" data-zoom-target="1" style="" />
Image via Guilherme Rambo
So... If you don't want to be tracked, don't install the app, don't go to the doctor and —upon getting a positive test — don't follow the steps to send out notifications.
WHAT HEALTH DATA?
The data Apple may see is literally a bunch of meaningless random numbers. If someone were to get hold of that they'd have... a bunch of random numbers. Go read the damn spec.