Apple's Face ID Turns Android Makers Away From Under-Screen Fingerprint Recognition

[Abazigal]

Where do you get the idea that there are a dozen settings needed to be changed or tinkered with on Android? I never understood this foolish ideology. If anything, its much simpler signing to an Android phone. You literally turn it on, sign in with your google account, and bam! DONE. Everything gets synced, apps get downloaded, contacts, email, etc. What else do you think occurs in setting up an android phone?

EDIT: If I turn off wifi or Bluetooth via the toggles, its turned OFF. No need to take extra steps to open up settings, wifi, turn off etc. There are plenty of resources online that show how its even simpler or it takes less steps to do something with Android than iphone lately.

Take for example 2-in-1 computers vs MacBooks. The former have trackpads, keyboards, styluses and touchscreens, but the OS isn’t really optimised for them, nor are they particularly well-implemented.

Conversely, MacBooks have trackpads which offer the best user experience bar none. I may have only the keyboard and trackpad on my trackpad, but it works so well I don’t feel the need for any other forms of input.

Same with the login methods for android devices. You give me 5 different ways, but none are really as well implemented as Touch ID on the iPhone. It’s like manufacturers spread themselves too thin trying to implement so many different options that they don’t really take the time to make sure each is as secure as they can / should be. To them, a ****** option is still an extra option for which there is no harm including; you don’t have to use it if you don’t like it.

With Apple, a ****** option like pattern unlock has no reason existing on a mobile device because then, you potentially compromise security by risking people using an inherently less secure means of locking your phone. They decided against it, and made the call not to support it on behalf of the consumers so we don’t agonise between that and a more secure option such as Touch ID (and now, face ID).

That’s the difference in design mentality between Apple and the rest of the world. That extra layer of asking “why” and acting as their own devil’s advocate which makes all the difference in the way Apple products look, act and work.

 

[LordVic]

Take for example 2-in-1 computers vs MacBooks. The former have trackpads, keyboards, styluses and touchscreens, but the OS isn’t really optimised for them, nor are they particularly well-implemented.

Conversely, MacBooks have trackpads which offer the best user experience bar none. I may have only the keyboard and trackpad on my trackpad, but it works so well I don’t feel the need for any other forms of input.

Same with the login methods for android devices. You give me 5 different ways, but none are really as well implemented as Touch ID on the iPhone. It’s like manufacturers spread themselves too thin trying to implement so many different options that they don’t really take the time to make sure each is as secure as they can / should be. To them, a ****** option is still an extra option for which there is no harm including; you don’t have to use it if you don’t like it.

With Apple, a ****** option like pattern unlock has no reason existing on a mobile device because then, you potentially compromise security by risking people using an inherently less secure means of locking your phone. They decided against it, and made the call not to support it on behalf of the consumers so we don’t agonise between that and a more secure option such as Touch ID (and now, face ID).

That’s the difference in design mentality between Apple and the rest of the world. That extra layer of asking “why” and acting as their own devil’s advocate which makes all the difference in the way Apple products look, act and work.

The way you constantly rant like this almost makes me think Singapore is 2-3 years behind on tech than the rest of the world.


There’s not a sing,e factual thing in this rant. Purely your opinion based on what seems like your experiences with 5+ year old devices.

 

[Regime2008]

Take for example 2-in-1 computers vs MacBooks. The former have trackpads, keyboards, styluses and touchscreens, but the OS isn’t really optimised for them, nor are they particularly well-implemented.

Conversely, MacBooks have trackpads which offer the best user experience bar none. I may have only the keyboard and trackpad on my trackpad, but it works so well I don’t feel the need for any other forms of input.

Same with the login methods for android devices. You give me 5 different ways, but none are really as well implemented as Touch ID on the iPhone. It’s like manufacturers spread themselves too thin trying to implement so many different options that they don’t really take the time to make sure each is as secure as they can / should be. To them, a ****** option is still an extra option for which there is no harm including; you don’t have to use it if you don’t like it.

With Apple, a ****** option like pattern unlock has no reason existing on a mobile device because then, you potentially compromise security by risking people using an inherently less secure means of locking your phone. They decided against it, and made the call not to support it on behalf of the consumers so we don’t agonise between that and a more secure option such as Touch ID (and now, face ID).

That’s the difference in design mentality between Apple and the rest of the world. That extra layer of asking “why” and acting as their own devil’s advocate which makes all the difference in the way Apple products look, act and work.

So I was following along...till I read pattern unlock...do you know anyone who uses pattern unlock in this day and age? Its hard to find an android device without a fingerprint sensor.

But lets keep going with your "argument" (which had nothing to do with my questions BTW). Guess what, having options is not a BAD thing. Again, has anyone on this forum ever had their information stolen via a fingerprint reader? I HIGHLY doubt it. Before FaceID's reveal, I bet you would be screaming at the top of your lungs how amazing touchID is this year, and how nothing can top it. But now you put all of your eggs in one basket, on implementation that seems to be of a last minute change, and didn't even work on stage as intended.

EDIT: By the way, do you realize that even the fingerprint readers in the nexus 6p (2 year old device is still faster to unlock than the new iphone 8) How does touch ID beat that? The pixel xl 2 has the fastest fingerprint reader on a mobile device. Come back to this post a year from now and you will see that FaceID cannot top any fingerprint reader in terms of speed, not even Apples own implementation of TouchID.

 

[EdT]

Yeah, though if that was the case, wouldn't there be a super-mouse out there that contained both a ball and a laser?

The arguments for having both Touch ID and Face ID have basically been two: A backup in case one or the other method doesn't work; and freedom of choice. I won't get into the pros and cons of those arguments here.

There is a "superior security" argument, but nobody's making it. The Touch ID fans are happy with their 1:50,000 accuracy. Nobody is complaining about the claimed 1:1,000,000 accuracy of Face ID. But if you combine the two together, you'll have far greater than 1:1,000,000 accuracy.

Unless you are going to require people to use both, then no. Allowing someone to use either system to unlock you are never going to be better than your weakest individual link, which would be the 1:50,000 number. If you require both ID's to unlock then you would increase the difficulty.
[doublepost=1507680124][/doublepost]

So I was following along...till I read pattern unlock...do you know anyone who uses pattern unlock in this day and age? Its hard to find an android device without a fingerprint sensor.

But lets keep going with your "argument" (which had nothing to do with my questions BTW). Guess what, having options is not a BAD thing. Again, has anyone on this forum ever had their information stolen via a fingerprint reader? I HIGHLY doubt it. Before FaceID's reveal, I bet you would be screaming at the top of your lungs how amazing touchID is this year, and how nothing can top it. But now you put all of your eggs in one basket, on implementation that seems to be of a last minute change, and didn't even work on stage as intended.

EDIT: By the way, do you realize that even the fingerprint readers in the nexus 6p (2 year old device is still faster to unlock than the new iphone 8) How does touch ID beat that? The pixel xl 2 has the fastest fingerprint reader on a mobile device. Come back to this post a year from now and you will see that FaceID cannot top any fingerprint reader in terms of speed, not even Apples own implementation of TouchID.

I have several family members who use pattern unlock on their Android phones, and at least one who uses password (passcode really) on their iPhone 7. They aren't people in their 40's or 50's for the most part either. Security is not something they are concerned with. At all.

 

[alleggerita]

Thing is, it isn't proven yet. There are barely any videos of it actually working, despite the device being spotted frequently in the public the last few days.

I agree completely with you, consumers definitely want new technology. I am all for that statement, but new technology doesn't always have to come with a sacrifice. Each year I love watching the keynotes from Google, Apple, Samsung, etc to see what new ideas will emerge in our everyday lives. But this year, Apple really confused me with their lineup and offerings. If FaceID is supposed to take over TouchID, then why was the iphone 8 released without it? Some claim lack of sensors, oled panels, etc. But if that's case, then why not wait another year to get supply ready, and evade fragmentation altogether. Now there are 3 different iphones with 3 different cameras, 2 different unlocking methods, 2 different screen types. Now don't get me wrong, I am all about having options and choices. But doesn't that seem a bit sloppy for Apple, especially with all the negativity surrounding iOS11?

Ultimately I feel that TouchID was working perfectly fine up until a new method was announced, and now all of a sudden everyone feels like their Area 51, extra security clearance, personal data has been breached because the lack of FaceID in their current devices. Now its the Holy Grail for so many users in the matter of a failed tech demo presentation?

TouchID/fingerprint readers are the go to for majority of people. While more security is never a bad thing, I'm pretty sure not one person on this thread has had their data stolen because of someone getting into their account via fake fingerprint.

Ok have to admit this year’s launch is a mess. Both the lineup and the software. I think the X really took a toll on Apple. Their attention are all over the place and not focused.

I think they themselves are uncertain about FaceID and components constrains made them launch 3 models with 2 different biometric security feature.

For me personally, as long as the new tech doesn’t suck too badly to the point of being unusable, I’ll gladly embrace it. Knowing that this new tech is Gen 1 makes me more forgiving to its shortcomings. And I trust that Apple will continually improve on it. But that’s just my two cents.

 

[Regime2008]

Unless you are going to require people to use both, then no. Allowing someone to use either system to unlock you are never going to be better than your weakest individual link, which would be the 1:50,000 number. If you require both ID's to unlock then you would increase the difficulty.
[doublepost=1507680124][/doublepost]

I have several family members who use pattern unlock on their Android phones, and at least one who uses password (passcode really) on their iPhone 7. They aren't people in their 40's or 50's for the most part either. Security is not something they are concerned with. At all.

Sorry, I should have made my statement more clear. I meant it in the regards to his post of needing super security, and how android's methods are supposedly "******" I should have said I doubt there are many people who are SUPER concerned with security, that would prefer using a pattern unlock vs using a pin unlock (more secure than pattern unlock). They would more than likely use a phone with a fingerprint reader if they were that concerned. But I know a someone that uses pattern unlock, despite having a fingerprint reader, just because they don't like the idea of fingerprint readers in general (tin foil hat lol)

 

[BvizioN]

The company is positioning itself as a fashion/luxury brand, which relies on trends and setting them in particular.

How exactly? By pricing their products higher then the computation? Mater of fact competition have come pretty damn close with prices, at lest on mobile devices. Would they be able to price their products at high prices if say, their products where garbage? (like a lot of stuff from other companies) I doubt it. They have earned peoples trust by providing quality products + simplicity and this is very hard to argue.

About you being disappointing with Apple products. Quite understandable. Apple (or any other company) can create a masterpeace and there will still be plenty of unhappy/angry people. This is a human nature, just the way things are. No one can make everyone happy.

 

[Jimrod]

I don't think anyone actually cares about the security benefits of FaceID vs TouchID, they're both good enough. People care about user experience. TouchID works, can have your phone open by the time you pull it out of your pocket or pick it up in one movement, can work led on a desk for a glance. FaceID already requires an extra action, a swipe up, regardless of reliability, angles, whatever - it's added a step = more annoying for the user experience.

 

[EdT]

Sorry, I should have made my statement more clear. I meant it in the regards to his post of needing super security, and how android's methods are supposedly "******" I should have said I doubt there are many people who are SUPER concerned with security, that would prefer using a pattern unlock vs using a pin unlock (more secure than pattern unlock). They would more than likely use a phone with a fingerprint reader if they were that concerned. But I know a someone that uses pattern unlock, despite having a fingerprint reader, just because they don't like the idea of fingerprint readers in general (tin foil hat lol)

People I know who use pattern and/or pin I wouldn't describe as tin foil hat people, they really don't think that there's anything bad that can happen: "They'll get a few pictures and that's it".

I thought that Apple should have given an iPhone X to a 3rd party evaluator soon after the announcement last September. If it works as well as Apple says then this would quiet the people who are concerned that it isn't going to be reliable but don't otherwise have an agenda. The conspiracists will still be harping 8-9 months from now even if everything works the way that Apple says. If there are problems then be ready for a constant flood of I told you so's.

 

[Regime2008]

People I know who use pattern and/or pin I wouldn't describe as tin foil hat people, they really don't think that there's anything bad that can happen: "They'll get a few pictures and that's it".

I thought that Apple should have given an iPhone X to a 3rd party evaluator soon after the announcement last September. If it works as well as Apple says then this would quiet the people who are concerned that it isn't going to be reliable but don't otherwise have an agenda. The conspiracists will still be harping 8-9 months from now even if everything works the way that Apple says. If there are problems then be ready for a constant flood of I told you so's.

No, I am saying the person that I know, who doesn't want to use a fingerprint reader (because of tin foil hat theories). There is nothing wrong with pattern unlock. I was just saying that someone who is super paranoid about security, or having the idea of their phone being hacked, would opt in for a fingerprint reader over using a pattern/pin to unlock their device. The only reason I have a lock on my phone is so that I get all my notifications on my lock screen, or I use my watch as a trusted device, and get notifications on it.

I agree 110% with that. The fact that they have only been able to demo the unlocking one time on stage, and it didn't even go as planned, must be a scary idea for those who are planning to get the X. If they could at least show some demo's of the device working, as most manufacturers do at their keynotes, all of this uncertainty would be put to rest. It's releasing soon, and there's not much time left to kill any doubt...

 

[EdT]

If they could at least show some demo's of the device working, as most manufacturers do at their keynotes, all of this uncertainty would be put to rest. It's releasing soon, and there's not much time left to kill any doubt...

Agreed, it's probably too late now to get 3rd party confirmation. It will either work close to how Apple says it will or whatever problems will be endlessly highlighted in the press.

 

[Motey]

It's pretty impressive what they've done, and this won't be the first time. They first had Touch ID in 2013, and it showed how far ahead they were when Samsung rushed to add a fingerprint sensor in the Galaxy S5 the following year and it was nearly unusable.

It's pretty impressive what they've done, and this won't be the first time. They first had Touch ID in 2013, and it showed how far ahead they were when Samsung rushed to add a fingerprint sensor in the Galaxy S5 the following year and it was nearly unusable.

How can facial recognition be secure? Any mugger, FBI agent or your partner while you are sleeping, just needs to point your phone at you to unlock it.
[doublepost=1507726133][/doublepost]

This warms the cockles of my old Apple heart.

How can facial recognition be secure? Any mugger, FBI agent or your partner while you are sleeping, just needs to point your phone at you to unlock it. Give me an iris scanner any day

 

[profets]

How can facial recognition be secure? Any mugger, FBI agent or your partner while you are sleeping, just needs to point your phone at you to unlock it.

With Face ID you need to be paying attention to the screen for it to unlock. Won't happen while sleeping.

 

[EdT]

How can facial recognition be secure? Any mugger, FBI agent or your partner while you are sleeping, just needs to point your phone at you to unlock it.

It needs to see your eyes open to work,unless you disable that requirement.

 

[Regime2008]

Agreed, it's probably too late now to get 3rd party confirmation. It will either work close to how Apple says it will or whatever problems will be endlessly highlighted in the press.

Precisely. If it works, then good for them being courageous again. If it doesn't, we may even hear a "Your holding it wrong" v2.0. I just pray that it doesn't transition over to Android. I love how the fingerprint reader is implemented on the back of my phone. I don't have to reach to the top of my phone to see my notifications, as i can just swipe down on my FP reader, and my notifications scroll down. It's fast, simple, and my phone is already unlocked before it even leaves my pocket. Although, I would still have a FP reader if this ever were to become mainstream on Android phones, because they don't remove basic functionality no where near how Apple does with software/hardware.
[doublepost=1507726469][/doublepost]

How can facial recognition be secure? Any mugger, FBI agent or your partner while you are sleeping, just needs to point your phone at you to unlock it.
[doublepost=1507726133][/doublepost]
How can facial recognition be secure? Any mugger, FBI agent or your partner while you are sleeping, just needs to point your phone at you to unlock it. Give me an iris scanner any day

While I don't believe it will work if said person has their eyes closed, I do feel it would be much easier for FBI, mugger, etc to access your phone through FaceID vs TouchID. If FaceID works as fast as they claim, all it takes it pointing that persons phone at their face, and before they could blink, it would be unlocked. At least you could resist giving the mugger/FBI your finger to unlock the device.

 

[melendezest]

How exactly? By pricing their products higher then the computation? Mater of fact competition have come pretty damn close with prices, at lest on mobile devices. Would they be able to price their products at high prices if say, their products where garbage? (like a lot of stuff from other companies) I doubt it. They have earned peoples trust by providing quality products + simplicity and this is very hard to argue.

About you being disappointing with Apple products. Quite understandable. Apple (or any other company) can create a masterpeace and there will still be plenty of unhappy/angry people. This is a human nature, just the way things are. No one can make everyone happy.

Apple pricing has always been relatively high, but now it's SKY high for what you get. The fact that they offer old tech at an "entry-level" price is no justification for this.

The value per dollar is not there like it used to be, when comparing against other products in the market. You're basically paying A LOT for that integration.

As far as the leap towards luxury, it has 2 main evidence indicators: Angela Ahrendts and the Apple Watch (Edition, Hermes, etc). This is not new news:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-apple-wants-you-to-believe-it-is-a-luxury-goods-company-2015-3

https://www.cnbc.com/2013/10/15/apple-is-a-luxury-brand-not-a-tech-company.html

Now, the iPhone X is the most expensive phone (soon to be) out there, but it's not much more expensive than the Note8.

BUT, you get a LOT more capability with the Note, so it is a better value.

In my opinion Apple has no "masterpieces" anymore. Their products are not better or more capable than the competition in the overall sense. They're at least comparable, and often more limited and restrictive. This used to not be so. The competition has caught up in many areas and even surpassed Apple, especially in the mobile space.

But you're right, you can't please everybody. Apple simply stopped pleasing me.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

Now, the iPhone X is the most expensive phone (soon to be) out there, but it's not much more expensive than the Note8.

BUT, you get a LOT more capability with the Note, so it is a better value.

And people buying that Note 8 get free stuff added in with the phone.

 

[EdT]

And people buying that Note 8 get free stuff added in with the phone.

Then buy a Note 8. Quite frankly I don't care what phone you decide to use.

 

[melendezest]

And people buying that Note 8 get free stuff added in with the phone.

Sadly I don't get the freebies because my Note8 is work issued (although I get to pick my device), but the phone itself is about the only one out there that is actually worth the money.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

Then buy a Note 8. Quite frankly I don't care what phone you decide to use.

I am not going to buy a Note. I was merely pointing out that the Note isn't that close to an X price wise.

 

[EdT]

I am not going to buy a Note. I was merely pointing out that the Note isn't that close to an X price wise.

I'll grant you that the price of the IPhone X definitely can cause sticker shock.

 

[Wanted797]

Good point. And if they make it by a legal decision in the US that a fingerprint can't be legally used to force you to unlock your phone, we'll see it make a comeback. Somehow, using your face to unlock your phone won't have any legal protection at all from 4th/5th amendment searches.

Easy solution is to engage SOS mode by rapidly clicking the lock button.

 

[Parkin Pig]

I do feel it would be much easier for FBI, mugger, etc to access your phone through FaceID vs TouchID. If FaceID works as fast as they claim, all it takes it pointing that persons phone at their face, and before they could blink, it would be unlocked.

You may even get a cute Poo animoji saying 'stop, thief!'

 

[kdarling]

Easy solution is to engage SOS mode by rapidly clicking the lock button.

Police sharpshooter: I have a bead on the suspect. Should I try to shoot the weapon out of his hand?

Police commander: Not yet. First shoot the other hand holding his iPhone, so he won't be able to prevent us from using his face to unlock it!

 

[Keirasplace]

Precisely. If it works, then good for them being courageous again. If it doesn't, we may even hear a "Your holding it wrong" v2.0. I just pray that it doesn't transition over to Android. I love how the fingerprint reader is implemented on the back of my phone. I don't have to reach to the top of my phone to see my notifications, as i can just swipe down on my FP reader, and my notifications scroll down. It's fast, simple, and my phone is already unlocked before it even leaves my pocket. Although, I would still have a FP reader if this ever were to become mainstream on Android phones, because they don't remove basic functionality no where near how Apple does with software/hardware.
[doublepost=1507726469][/doublepost]
While I don't believe it will work if said person has their eyes closed, I do feel it would be much easier for FBI, mugger, etc to access your phone through FaceID vs TouchID. If FaceID works as fast as they claim, all it takes it pointing that persons phone at their face, and before they could blink, it would be unlocked. At least you could resist giving the mugger/FBI your finger to unlock the device.

Or maybe it is locked as soon as it doesn't see you looking at the screen and that solves the whole issue.

Also, you do know Apple didn't change one thing in the 4 and it sold as is for years... So, not even sure what on earth it you mean. That the Iphone 4 had in fact a better reception than the 3GS and most other phones on that time held in the same way, means there was in fact no real issues.

Those who went on and on about this are the same dumbass androiders who meme everything and go on and on about something even when others have moved on.

If your saying those sad sacks, will be trying their hardest to find a way in which Face ID will fall down, even if it means inventing some or blowing up alleged issues to the moon and back; well you are right about that.

Those little morons will run wild with even the most minute imaginary problems and it will echoed in their moronsphere for a least a few months.