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Apple's Fines in Dutch Antitrust Case Hit 50 Million Euros

I'm so sick of this crap. It's my device that I've paid over $1000 for so why can't I run what I want on it? This is about money no matter how much Apple tries to claim "security". Apple wants to make as much of it as possible. Because that's what businesses do. But this is not really friendly for the consumer.
 
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evanmarx said:
I would really like to see how big the percentage of iOS users is that want alternate payment systems in their iPhones... I cannot imagine them being very high... it is also not very clear who is pushing these agendas and to whose advantage...makes absolutely no sense... do those politicians do any research about the user base? I certainly don't want any sideloading of apps et al. ... if I would like to have that I would use Android! makes no effing sense... it's like making Android/Google responsible (with fines) for every malware app on Android phones
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You might not want it, someone else obviously wants it. Going back to the topic though, I assume you think that you should be forced to use Apple’s IAP infrastructure?
 
ct2k7 said:
You already provide Apple, its subsidiaries and its partners with your information.
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Yes, I am well aware of that. My question was specifically: why would I want to do the same with Amazon, Google, Meta, Microsoft, Steam, Epic and all the indies? The answer is I don't and I don't want to be forced to via legislation.

If you don't like what Apple is doing vote with your dollars and buy something else, if enough of you leave Apple will change.
 
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evanmarx said:
I would really like to see how big the percentage of iOS users is that want alternate payment systems in their iPhones... I cannot imagine them being very high... it is also not very clear who is pushing these agendas and to whose advantage...makes absolutely no sense... do those politicians do any research about the user base? I certainly don't want any sideloading of apps et al. ... if I would like to have that I would use Android! makes no effing sense... it's like making Android/Google responsible (with fines) for every malware app on Android phones
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It doesn’t matter what users want, it’s about preserving market competition, avoiding monopolies and crack down Apples unfair business practices against developers.
 
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q64ceo said:
I'm so sick of this crap. It's my device that I've paid over $1000 for so why can't I run what I want on it? This is about money no matter how much Apple tries to claim "security". Apple wants to make as much of it as possible. Because that's what businesses do. But this is not really friendly for the consumer.
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Yet you bought an Apple device knowing what that ecosystem entails? Odd choice if you don't like it.

Be brave, vote with your dollars, if enough of you leave Apple they will change. If no one leaves then they won't.
 
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Call the EU’s bluff. Pull out of the market and watch them all complain to their governments about crappy choice and an Android only market monopoly. Then when the crap hits the fan and the governments say ok you can comeback. Please come back. Go back and double the prices to recover the loss.
 
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Gruffydd said:
Call the EU’s bluff. Pull out of the market and watch them all complain to their governments about crappy choice and an Android only market monopoly. Then when the crap hits the fan and the governments say ok you can comeback. Please come back. Go back and double the prices to recover the loss.
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Get real!
 
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icanhazmac said:
Yes, I am well aware of that. My question was specifically: why would I want to do the same with Amazon, Google, Meta, Microsoft, Steam, Epic and all the indies? The answer is I don't and I don't want to be forced to via legislation.

If you don't like what Apple is doing vote with your dollars and buy something else, if enough of you leave Apple will change.
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You’re asking why would I want to set up a different identity for each service I use.

One answer could be is that I don’t want to give information to certain organisations. Whilst it’s very convenient to have a single identity provider, you now give that identity provider power over you.
 
Gruffydd said:
Call the EU’s bluff. Pull out of the market and watch them all complain to their governments about crappy choice and an Android only market monopoly. Then when the crap hits the fan and the governments say ok you can comeback. Please come back. Go back and double the prices to recover the loss.
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Pulling out of a first world western country means paying even more fines because many if not all contracts with third parties will get voided.
 
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icanhazmac said:
Yet you bought an Apple device knowing what that ecosystem entails? Odd choice if you don't like it.

Be brave, vote with your dollars, if enough of you leave Apple they will change. If no one leaves then they won't.
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The politicians who thankfully are supporting these laws, bills and regulations (DMA/DSA) has been voted already, there is no need to vote with dollars. ?
 
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ct2k7 said:
Whilst it’s very convenient to have a single identity provider, you now give that identity provider power over you.
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Apple holds no power over me, if I wake up and decide I don't like what they are doing I can buy something else, that is called voting with my dollars, a free market choice. I'd rather not have brainless politicians force that decision on me via legislation.
 
mikethemartian said:
It doesn’t matter what is in the terms and conditions. That type of contract where it is all or nothing is referred to as a “contract of adhesion“ in business law. Courts generally do not enforce all the clauses in such a contract because contracts are supposed to be “a meeting of the minds” between both parties who are supposed to hash out the terms between them.
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As long they meet the same standards as other legal documents (and Apple's do), they are completely enforceable. The "meeting of the minds" criteria is usually met by the prospective user being able opt to not enter the contract or exit the contract at anytime by doing specific things like deleting the software or canceling an account. There is no law that says contract terms have to be negotiable. Most contacts are considered binding if they convey at least offer, acceptance and mutual consideration for some predefined term of validity
 
icanhazmac said:
Apple holds no power over me, if I wake up and decide I don't like what they are doing I can buy something else, that is called voting with my dollars, a free market choice. I'd rather not have brainless politicians force that decision on me via legislation.
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Let’s say you’re fully invested in the ecosystem, are you going to be able to extricate yourself from it?

Remember you’re not just buying a new device, you’re transferring data out, cancelling subscriptions and setting them up again etc. Not as easy as you make it.

Though this does raise an interesting point about lock in, but that’s for another discussion.
 
visualseed said:
As long they meet the same standards as other legal documents (and Apple's do), they are completely enforceable. The "meeting of the minds" criteria is usually met by the prospective user being able opt to not enter the contract or exit the contract at anytime by doing specific things like deleting the software or canceling an account. There is no law that says contract terms have to be negotiable. Most contacts are considered binding if they convey at least offer, acceptance and mutual consideration for some predefined term of validity
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Dunno about the U.S. but not here in the EU.
Thats why every contract has a salvatory clause, to not render the whole contract invalid in case somebody challenges a passage of it and win.

Just like Adobe, Microsofts OEM Windows Eula resell restrictions has been challenged and rendered invalid by law here. We can freely resell OEM Windows and Adobe Software.

Selling OEM Windows copies – you can do it in Europe

According to this reading of the law, anyway
www.theregister.com www.theregister.com
 
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ct2k7 said:
Let’s say you’re fully invested in the ecosystem, are you going to be able to extricate yourself from it?

Remember you’re not just buying a new device, you’re transferring data out, cancelling subscriptions and setting them up again etc. Not as easy as you make it.

Though this does raise an interesting point about lock in, but that’s for another discussion.
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First off, thank you for the civil discourse, some children here can only use laughing emoji instead of their words.

Yes, if Apple annoyed me enough I would absolutely extricate myself from the ecosystem, probably not all at once but I would do it and have done it. My PC sits here dark unless I am gaming, other than that I never use it but I used to use it for everything and lived inside that ecosystem.

The only thing that annoys me with Apple right now is them playing the moral arbiter of app content. If I want an app for my Pax vaporizer I should be able to get one but I can't. In the grand scheme of things this does not warrant my leaving the ecosystem. What I don't do is write my local politicians begging them to legislate Apple into complying. Its a choice, if you don't like the ecosystem, don't buy into it in the first place. Apple didn't sneak up on anyone, its been this way for a long time. It seems that many here bought in to the ecosystem, knowing full well how it worked, but now want to force change via legislation. Let the market decide on its own, if Apple gets too draconian, as some feel they are now, people will leave.
 
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Pakaku said:
All these fines over a bunch of dating apps. And I thought I was lonely /s
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You are not lonely! ?
/s

1648506034402.jpeg
 
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Funny, I don't remember all of this European intervention back when Nokia & Ericsson were dominating the market.
 
Wildkraut said:
Apples behavior here will serve as a precedent case to justify the introduction of DMA/DSA even more.
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You mean where Apple makes proposal after proposal and regulators come up with new rules like 'no has to be a single app' and 'no it needs to support in-app purchases at the same time' to keep the fines trickling in?
 
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AppliedMicro said:
It doesn't. More versions to choose from, more customer confusion.
Customer confusion doesn't aid security.
But it helps retain their share of the pie.
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What confusion? They get a binary with the right option in the right countries.
 
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h3ysw5nkan said:
I want to use iOS apps on Apple devices that Apple doesn’t approve of, or can’t approve due to political pressure or legal reasons.

For example, Telegram in Hong Kong, or VPN apps in China, or drone strike counters in the US, or even a modded YouTube app.
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Get an android. I'd like to do a lot of things in this life also, but I'm limited by the powers to be that govern my life.
 
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