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I don't use a netbook. In fact I don't use anything except an Apple device. As I said, I will not buy it. I am no fan of Flash - no more than anyone else. But why buy something that doesn't cater for the majority of websites. That is my point.

If you try installing flashblock, you'll find that the vast majority of websites do not require flash at all. I surf with flashblock enabled and can count on the fingers of one hand the number of sites which still use flash in a constructive way (i.e. not for banner ads) - stuff like streetview, NYT for graphics etc. I'm sure those sites will gradually move away from it as it's typically not required nowadays for the uses it is put to. Would not be at all surprised if the NYT is going to replace their flash content with non-flash equivalents just for the iPad launch, particularly if they're hoping to charge for subscriptions. The only category of site I encounter which still seems to be stuck on flash is restaurant websites, which often just use flash and have no html substitute.

So Apple not allowing it on the platform is a plus as far as I'm concerned, as it makes sure website designers don't use binary plugins which restrict which platforms their websites can be viewed on. Using flash is handing control of the web over to Adobe and I'm glad Apple are taking a stand against it (though Jobs dissembling about battery life definitely isn't the whole story).
 
Developpers/Artists have made the choice to use one of the mainstream standards for their product/project. Who's Jobs to tell these millions of people they can't do this choice ?
He's the one that led his company very forcefully towards creating the most celebrated mobile gadget of our generation. That's exactly who he is. Adobe must be working frantically in the background to try and resolve content problems all around the Internet without contacting these companies and asking them to alter their Flash documents to be more "friendly" to touchscreen mobile devices. The few demos I've seen do not show someone confidently marching around the web and experiencing a variety of mainstream Flash content. I've only seen Adobe show National Geographic (with banner ads), and two isolated game, that both seemed choppy and awkward to me (a "shooter" game and the awkward "guess who"). If you noticed, on YouTube.com, Adobe doesn't show any of the normal YouTube player controls like stop, rewind, or scrub. In Guess Who... well, watch the video... its PAINFUL.

In Alien Attack, note how little this game represents anything you'd actually want to play... Moreover, notice how he says very clearly (listen for it): "The first game that I'm going to is one called Alien Attack, and I'll give you a sense for the types of user interfaces that'll work really well. We've been working with a lot of the game sites to make sure that they have really easy access to some of the most interesting games that work well on touchscreen."

This last part should actually read: "We've been working with a lot of the game sites to make sure that they only show games to mobile Flash Player 10.1 users that function OKAY on a touchscreen and to hide all the many games that are horrible and don't work at all."

DEMO: Nexus One - National Geographic, Alien Attack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlWOocHwcLo

DEMO: Droid - YouTube, Guess Who
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljxToHlRwk4

Mostly, I've seen Flash used to play video on mobile devices. Content publishers should try to better accommodate devices that can play H.264 and not simply stop with a Flash player and call it a day. They don't need a crutch, they need to update their website.

I look forward to seeing Hulu, Farmville, and numerous other Flash heavy websites like... oh, Meez.com on Flash Player 10.1. This is part of this goofy statement that keeps being repeated that people are "missing out" on much of the content of the web. If 10.1 doesn't let you access it, then come back when it does. Until then, stop acting like simply having the latest mobile Flash Player is the equivalent of what's on the desktop if it won't be able to really utilize these sites.

IT IS NOT.

No one needs to be an "Apple fan boy" to say this... just a realist who refuses to drink the kool-aid of simply assuming Apple is wrong. Allowing a broken, badly performing Flash plugin on the iPad/iPhone would not ONLY kill battery life, but it would be absolutely not worthwhile to the majority of users.

In fact, most people won't even know to turn it off once they realize how generally useless it is. It would be many times worst than having Bluetooth and WiFi network auto-detection on all the time while using the Internet.

Have you ever had one of those "geeky" moments when you say to a non-techie friend, "Hey, look what I can do!" And they go, "Hey, neat. Do you use that all the time?" and you respond, "Um, no, its kind of a pain in the ass so I rarely use it, but its cool that I can do it, huh?" Well, that'll be Flash Player 10.1, when they're finished developing it.

~ CB
 
I'm glad the iPad won't have Flash. That means there will be a couple less people I have to stand behind when the line wraps around my local Apple Store the day this gem of a device is released.

Indeed! :)

I hate flash, I'm very happy it's not going to appear on the ipad.
 
It would make strategic sense to me if Apple had succeeded in convincing the NY Times to transition to HTML 5, as suggested in the main article.

There's an assumption that Apple is passively courting media providers to make this switch with the allure of delivering content on the iPad. It may very well be that Apple is in actuality playing a far more aggressive role, as indicated by the frequently reported WSJ meeting with Steve Jobs (in which every detail of this dinner was reported and analyzed, from Steve Jobs menu to the infamous tweeting imbroglio).

The NY Times would make a great example for Apple to tout of a company that advantageously switched to open web standards, improving computer performance on all platforms while maintaining control of subscription content. Of course this is speculation, but I do wonder if Apple would facilitate this desired outcome in some way, perhaps through a deal of subsidizing subscriptions to increase viewership and make both the electronic version of the NY Times and the iPad more appealing.
 
I just checked out the video again and it looks like it was reverted back because it is now showing the missing plugin symbol again.
 
As arn says, there won't be Flash on the iPhone or iPad, but I am intrigued by the possibility of the NYT omitting Flash from their site. It seems like a pretty low probability from my perspective, but if it happens it would only be because Jobs convinced them it was in their best interest to do so. That would be a pretty big coup for Apple, and may actually have some repercussions through the industry (a lot of publications follow pretty closely what the NYT is doing).

Of course, this is most likely just a screw up on Apple's part, and it'll get corrected in the next couple of days - but that's a much less interesting possibility.

A web free of proprietary plugins, and web pages that only render in IE - what a concept! Hey I can dream, can't I?
 
I like what you say. Unfortunately, I live in flash-happy Japan and many of those websites I need to use are flash, flash bloody flash.

I agree that Apple taking a stand will potentially lead to a change in web designer behaviour, but it isn't going to happen overnight and will therefore delay a lot of sales internationally where the other benefits of the iPad will not be available. Internationally, at this moment in time, it's a bit of a dud product.

If you try installing flashblock, you'll find that the vast majority of websites do not require flash at all. I surf with flashblock enabled and can count on the fingers of one hand the number of sites which still use flash in a constructive way (i.e. not for banner ads) - stuff like streetview, NYT for graphics etc. I'm sure those sites will gradually move away from it as it's typically not required nowadays for the uses it is put to. Would not be at all surprised if the NYT is going to replace their flash content with non-flash equivalents just for the iPad launch, particularly if they're hoping to charge for subscriptions. The only category of site I encounter which still seems to be stuck on flash is restaurant websites, which often just use flash and have no html substitute.

So Apple not allowing it on the platform is a plus as far as I'm concerned, as it makes sure website designers don't use binary plugins which restrict which platforms their websites can be viewed on. Using flash is handing control of the web over to Adobe and I'm glad Apple are taking a stand against it (though Jobs dissembling about battery life definitely isn't the whole story).
 
With something as evidently stupid, hypocrit and greedy as Apple decision not to include Flash when 75% of videos, games and lots of internet websites are displayed in Flash, those who agree are not Fanboys.

They're Groupies. The c$$ksu$$ing ones.

Stop the BS
1)It's the second time they can't even display a proper AD.
2)As I said, lots of content is still in Flash.
3)Developpers/Artists have made the choice to use one of the mainstream standards for their product/project. Who's Jobs to tell these millions of people they can't do this choice ?
4)HTML5 is not even a Standard, and the beta release of Youtube is a...BETA, and it's not brillant. How can you say that HTML5 can replace Flash now ?

The difference between Apple and c$$ks$ing groupies, is that Apple is making money and has a strategy (even thought it seems like a bad one). I consider myself as a real fanboy, I don't follow blindly until I realise the fall of Apple and all the money I've spent while other more intelligent customers have switched, I try to push Apple back in the good way so I can continue enjoying the products and innovation, while they can continue enjoying making money, that's what real fanboys do.

75% of web sites do not have their content in flash - that is BS.

Flash is not a standard.

Flash is flakey and a resources hog.

Is it simple enough to understand?

Furthermore, I don't know how retarded web development is in the states, but as a UK developer I have a legal responsibility to provide accessible content, with automatic sensing and content replacement for those without flash, javascript etc. It's simply good development practice.

Those who can only code in flash and are not able to provide alternatives do not deserve the title "web developer". It's lazy, inaccessible, goes AGAINST standards and is a very poor reflection on the company owning the site.

People keep talking about HTML 5 like it is a 'flash killer', that is also BS - HTML is a coding language standard, that it can present video in no way makes it a 'flash killer' - flash was never, ever, intended for video delivery. Simple interactions and animations can be coded in jquery NOW - most of the blended rollovers and pointless simple uses of flash that I see instantly tell me that a prospective employee is lazy and untrained - and will not be working in my studios.

The potential of flash is great, there are some fantastic sites out there which use a mix of html and flash. What most people use flash for, and the appalling, unstable, amateur, browser crashing coding out there, is not great. Coupled with a flakey plug-in, I rest my case.

This constant assumption that Apple is making some political stand is also annoying me. It's very simple - flash crashes safari and drains battery, while drowning the CPU - Apple don't want a poor experience for their users, they have no stated intent to destroy flash or Adobe - without Adobe, Apple's professional market share will disappear overnight.
 
I applaud some posters here who haven’t gone nuts over the Flash issue and are contributing to these forums and threads like this with insight and reason. Thank you, guys. It’s a joy to read something more than “it suxx, Apple = 1984 Orwell” or whichever groundless ramblings that contribute zero to the thread.
 
interesting

Interesting indeed. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this leans heavily in favor of this being a mistake or NYT offering alternate video & animation and not iPad offering Flash.
 
Do you mean your post?

I think the NYTimes may indeed replace the flash content with html5 based on browser detection... which would explain the new promo video correctly showing what just got replaced.

I agree. What I would live about that is that it exposes the twisted logic of those many folks on here who accused Apple of malfeasance and of intentionally misleading people into believing iPad supported Flash.
 
I know why the video has been changed....because it's MAGICAL!

I hear Apple is changing the game a bit...instead of having different colored iPads (like the iPods), they will be different scents...like lavender and tulips and "spring freshness scent"


-Eric
 
So... When is Microsoft finally banning iTunes and Safari on Windows. Because, quite frankly, that software runs like crap in Windows. :D

They work just fine on my windows machines, they're a little sluggish - but then so is everything else on windows vista. Safari outperforms ie hands down - what issue do you have specifically, or are you just trying to sound clever?
 
75% of web sites do not have their content in flash - that is BS.

Flash is not a standard.

I beg to differ. Almost every single website I visit has some kind of Flash content in it...and I'm not talking about videos like on youtube. Sites like BestBuy.com, Amazon, Boston.com, CNN, etc. I think 75% is a very realistic percentage.

Flash may not be a "standard" in sense of being affiliated with a standards committee, but Flash is definitely standard in web development...easily for the past 10 years. You don't really think web developers (in college or out of school) only write in HTML and JSP do you?

You do realize that even MR has Flash embedded all over the place (the ads)...right?

-Eric
 
Oh my god ... noooooooo

You might check to see if Steve Jobs has trimmed his toenails as scheduled ... and if not, the entire world needs to know the whole story of why Steve has not groomed his toenails, and when (if can be determined) exactly when toe trimming will be implemented so that Mac users can get on with our Monday.
 
Rather Have Less Content than use Flash

Flash messes my desktop up so badly with memory issues I've got Flash blocker on most of the time. I am glad that the iPhone and iPad don't support it.
 
?????

1. Actually it is Steve's decision. Steve doesn't put out a product until he feels it's ready to thrive. He doesn't want software (Flash) to the overwork the hardware (iPad) which ruins the user experience. Would YOU make a computer that was incredibly fast, efficient, and fun, and then allow a software company ruin that with software which you yourself can't fix? I wouldn't. Also, for many of whom will use the iPad, my mom, dad, etc., they possibly won't notice much. Many web sites have web sites optimized for iPhone OS which iPad will use, to view their content. AND how many iPhone users know how to turn off 3G? Let alone Flash- that they don't even care about...? Geeks like us do- what what about the lay person? I know MANY iPhone users that don't know HALF of what their iPhone can do or how to change settings. I say- leave Flash out.

2. I'm pretty sure this will come out. I am VERY excited to see this and waiting for it just as much as you!

3. Maybe you shouldn't buy the 1st gen. if you feel it doesn't fit your needs. But don't fault Apple for not pleasing everyone. Also, sorry to say, but you don't seem to be very business minded. As a producer of a product, you need to ensure a long life for said product. If you came out with everything everyone wanted in one launch, why would anyone come back for your next product?? Your shareholders definitely wouldn't like it. YOU think Apple screwed up. Apple knows everyone wants EVERYTHING in one machine. As does EVERY computer company- do you think a computer company leaves components out of their computers because they FORGOT? LOL It's planned. For capitalism. Simple as that..



1, no its not his decision, please explain to me which companies block users from certain software on the mac, windows etc??? What i cant install wow on my mac while on battery mode because while playing on high graphics it will drain my battery????? what the hell, its not his problem its mine.

Yes i would build something beautiful and fast for everyone to enjoy, its not MY problem if the users install buggy rubbish.

Flash does not need to be turned on by default meaning users who know how to use an iphone can turn it on.

Regardless if flash is important or not, whats so hard about giving your customer an option rather then taking the control do as i say route?

2. ARD for ipad would be awesome.

3. Its not about pleasing people, the reason Iphone does so well is because its a phone, everybody needs a phone. If you leave out the most important things why are people going to buy, so they can check their e-mail on a bigger screen?? The Camera was so important for all, i dont see people taking picture on the ipad but video wise it is no brainer.

Business minded??? Excuse me, if people all want the same thing and dont buy the dam device then it ruins the ipads image, plus low sales look bad on the company. Nobody is asking for everything, but you dont buy a dinner set and leave out the fork.

The IPAD is new, its supposed to revolutionise the tablet world, which it can easily do, even the dam iphone has a camera.

People need a reason to have an ipad, basic things, multitasking (even if apple control which apps) and camera are a complete and utter must.

We will see when the sales reports come out.
 
So... When is Microsoft finally banning iTunes and Safari on Windows. Because, quite frankly, that software runs like crap in Windows. :D

Following that train of thought, Windows should ban Zune Marketplace and IE from their own OS.:rolleyes:

Most of the concern over flash is video, HTML5 is a solution to this problem.

When Adobe claims that 85% of all the major websites uses flash, they're including all those that use flash to display ads. So in reality, if the <video> tag were to replace useing Flash for video, what are iPad users really missing out on? Farmville? I can guarantee any users there are plenty of games on the iPad to play, they wont need Farmville anymore.
 
You might check to see if Steve Jobs has trimmed his toenails as scheduled ... and if not, the entire world needs to know the whole story of why Steve has not groomed his toenails, and when (if can be determined) exactly when toe trimming will be implemented so that Mac users can get on with our Monday.
Seriously, right? People care far too much about the whims of Steve Jobs.
 
Are you sure it's not NYT fixing their site?

What's to say when the iPad is actually out NYT hasn't gotten rid of the Flash?

Maybe this is just an example of how it will work instead of how it wouldn't work if it were out yesterday.
 
With something as evidently stupid, hypocrit and greedy as Apple decision not to include Flash when 75% of videos, games and lots of internet websites are displayed in Flash, those who agree are not Fanboys.

They're Groupies. The [Removed] ones.

Stop the BS
1)It's the second time they can't even display a proper AD.
2)As I said, lots of content is still in Flash.
3)Developpers/Artists have made the choice to use one of the mainstream standards for their product/project. Who's Jobs to tell these millions of people they can't do this choice ?
4)HTML5 is not even a Standard, and the beta release of Youtube is a...BETA, and it's not brillant. How can you say that HTML5 can replace Flash now ?

The difference between Apple and [Removed] groupies, is that Apple is making money and has a strategy (even thought it seems like a bad one). I consider myself as a real fanboy, I don't follow blindly until I realise the fall of Apple and all the money I've spent while other more intelligent customers have switched, I try to push Apple back in the good way so I can continue enjoying the products and innovation, while they can continue enjoying making money, that's what real fanboys do.

Welcome to my ignore list...
 
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