Apple's Joswiak on the iPhone, iPod Touch, 3rd Party Apps

[rorschach]

Yep, that is their attitude because it actually helps sell their products It is basically their way of saying we won't offer tech support for these apps/hacks because we never said it was a feature.

I think they said the same thing about AppleTV when people hacked it to play WoW.

Yep but it was just before they announced Boot Camp so let's hope an SDK is coming soon!

 

[miketcool]

Putting Bluetooth chips in the iPod touch makes as much sense as putting two gigs of RAM in every Mac but not allowing the OS to address one gig on consumer machines.

Im not saying that the iPod touch has bluetooth but...

Your quote only makes sense on components, not embedded components. It may be cheaper under some circumstances to print a single board, not have two setups requiring two different manufacturing processes. I am sure not including bluetooth on the iPod touch was more a consideration toward not cutting into iPhone sales, loyal 3rd party sales, and HD-radio interferences. Look at the innards of an iMac, all mobile computing parts. Why make a 3rd manufacturing line for desktop machines when you can focus all you're R&D on miniturizing mobile parts that will end up in several of your lineups.

 

[chr1s60]

So instead of making a nice stable 3rd party SDK that would work securely, since they are "so" intent on keeping the iPhone from "crashing"; they'd rather have developers just hack stuff around that may or may not break it, and be half-baked? Without a sanctioned SDK, developers are shooting in the dark and can never make things on par with what would be capable otherwise.

Why would Apple care if hackers make programs that ruin an iPhone? It's not like this will fall under warranty and Apple will have to provide a new phone. Hacking is obviously something that is perform at your own risk. If people break their phone it is just likely another iPhone sold to replace the broken one.

 

[Snowy_River]

Think about it though. Would it really be smart for him to say that Apple will do everything possible to break hacks? No, it would draw some people away from buying iPhones. It may not be their main concern or even one of their top concerns, but I think to an extent they are doing things that may prevent hacks.

No. What they're saying is that they're not going to work with developers at this point. Right now, if an update to OS X breaks an app, the developer of the app can call Apple and get developer support to help determine what's happened and how to best address it (whether it needs to be listed as a bug in OS X or a bug in the developer's app). They're saying that they won't do that for the iPhone / iPod Touch.

If they had wanted to maintain the hard line, they could have and expressed it in a positive way that wouldn't turn any but the most ardent hacker off too much. The fact that they didn't take that hard line is very encouraging.

 

[Flowbee]

Think about it though. Would it really be smart for him to say that Apple will do everything possible to break hacks? No, it would draw some people away from buying iPhones. It may not be their main concern or even one of their top concerns, but I think to an extent they are doing things that may prevent hacks.

That may be what you think, but there was nothing in Joswiak's comment to imply that.

 

[guerro]

So instead of making a nice stable 3rd party SDK that would work securely, since they are "so" intent on keeping the iPhone from "crashing"; they'd rather have developers just hack stuff around that may or may not break it, and be half-baked? Without a sanctioned SDK, developers are shooting in the dark and can never make things on par with what would be capable otherwise.

And this allows plausible deniability for Apple and a situation where Apple can always fall back on "it ain't our problem, you hacked your iPhone not us."

 

[kzin]

The touch not having bluetooth is a low point, it would be nice to connect to car systems, wireless headsets, and macs. Ohh well maybe the hardware is there and you just have to turn it on, like the extensions to the mac mini.

Or bluetooth thumb-keyboards.

The there are 5 things that made me decide not to buy the touch:

1) no bluetooth (thumb keyboard for ssh client)
2) no mail.app
3) no contacts/addressbook (at least, that's the impression I got from thing said on different forums, but it doesn't make sense because the other iPods DO have at least a read-only contacts area)
4) no notes application (again, other iPods have a read-only notes ability, why not the touch?)
5) no read/write calendar, addressbook, notes (the touch has so many more input possibilities than the other ipods, why is the calendar not going to allow input? and if you included the addressbook and notes abilities on other iPods, it would make sense to have those be read-write as well).

I'll look at getting an iPhone in October or November (hopefully using all 9's for the SSN will still work, as I want to do pay-as-you-go). But, as I've said elsewhere, I decided on a Nokia N800 over an iPod Touch. Got it yesterday. Like it mostly so far (the included email app doesn't do true IMAP, but I'm still looking at my options; if nothing else, I can use my mail server's webmail via the N800's included web browser (Opera)). I haven't installed ssh, or bought the bluetooth thumb keyboard, yet, though. That's when I expect to start having a lot of fun with it

 

[FoxyKaye]

So instead of making a nice stable 3rd party SDK that would work securely, since they are "so" intent on keeping the iPhone from "crashing"; they'd rather have developers just hack stuff around that may or may not break it, and be half-baked? Without a sanctioned SDK, developers are shooting in the dark and can never make things on par with what would be capable otherwise.

Amen to that. Look what a kludge it was to get one of the Intel Macs to run Windows XP before Boot Camp. I know Apple likes to control everything, but the cell phone market is one area where people seem to enjoy a great deal of latitude - If folks start putting on 3rd party apps that aren't made with an official SDK, this seems like inviting more problems. It's one thing for us Geek types to hack and kludge, but the everyday user probably isn't too keen on considering source validity, application revisions, hacking kits, software mods and other factors when they see some cool toy they want to run on their iPhone.

 

[Rhosfelt]

It kind of disappoints me that the touch won't support games. Mainly because I play Texas Hold Em a lot on my video right now, and seeing how i paid $5 for it and i now have no use for it that makes me kind of sad..

However the new iPod + Safari will help me with that. Hello Java games.

 

[LoganT]

I think if Apple were to do create an SDK it wouldn't be open to everyone. It would be open to select companies such as Google, EA, Yahoo, Microsoft, same guys who made Delicious Library, etc. Everything would be sold through the iTunes Store.

 

[KindredMAC]

Apple is blowing out 4GB iPhones for $299, very tempting since I never got the new SIM card for my RAZR I ordered. .

You know that they have doing this since the iPod keynote right?

I'm actually surprised they still have stock left. Must have been A LOT of them in inventory.

I ordered mine when I got home from work that day with a $50 Apple Gift Card I've been holding onto for about 4 months.

Got my email notice that Fed Ex just tried the house but of course no one home so I'll have to go to the pick up center right after work to get it. Hopefully the truck is back to the center by then!

 

[dicklacara]

That last little statement kinda seems like he is saying "we aren't against it, but we are gonna probably do things to break them."

No, I don't think so! Having made a public statement stating that Apple is neutral, they could not turn around and take an "anti independent developer" stance. There would be too much negative reaction from indies, the press, share holders, and consumers-- Apple needs all of these groups on their side!

You can't unring the bell.

 

[ghall]

I think if Apple were to do create an SDK it wouldn't be open to everyone. It would be open to select companies such as Google, EA, Yahoo, Microsoft, same guys who made Delicious Library, etc. Everything would be sold through the iTunes Store.

I would pay for that. It would be totally worth it as long as the programs were reasonably priced.

 

[mccldwll]

You can get it pay-as-you-go. AT the activation screen when it asks for your SSN, don't put in your SSN but rather 999-99-9999 and you'll get pay-as-you-go options. Plus, it lets you have full functionality & let's you quit whenever you want. On the downside, it's still $49.95 or something/month. And Apple legal hasn't shown up yet (but probably will after reading this )

Some rumors floated that possibly could get it w/o $20 data plan, which would then be $30/month for 200 minutes. If so, no EDGE (or text?) but a lot of functionality.

 

[farmboy]

Apple wants control for a reason...

If (when) you load your iPhone with some crap apps, and it freezes/crashes, you'll swear at the phone. When someone asks how you like the iPhone, you'll tell them your tale of woe. They will assume it's Apple' fault and a crappy product. That's why Apple is reluctant to support third party apps on a brand new product and new market; they want to control the user experience and ensure that it's great. Some hacks and small market apps are really good, but if you're honest you'll agree that most are not, and good luck on the technical support side with all those. I make it a policy not to put crap apps on my devices, and I never have any problems. My Macs haven't hung up or crashed in 10 years (altho MS Word has on occasion--and yes, it is a pile of crap app but I need it), and my iPods work exactly the way they're supposed to. Do I miss out on some good stuff? Sure, but it's not worth the aggravation.

 

[gadgetgirl85]

It kind of disappoints me that the touch won't support games. Mainly because I play Texas Hold Em a lot on my video right now, and seeing how i paid $5 for it and i now have no use for it that makes me kind of sad..

However the new iPod + Safari will help me with that. Hello Java games.

Did it say somewhere that it won't support game? I must have missed that

 

[swingerofbirch]

FTA:

I pointed out that Apple delivers regular software updates to Macs, and that they don't break third-party software. He responded that Apple has a lot more experience with the Mac platform than they do with the iPhone platform. Also, the Mac platform being a PC, he said that consumer expectations absolutely demand third party software be available - though he looked a little wistful at that moment, as if wondering how peaceful the world would be if Apple actually controlled all the software on the Mac platform. Then he came back to reality.​

I always had a feeling Apple would like having complete control of the software on the Mac. There is certainly less and less need to look outside of Apple for software. I purchase less software from companies other than Apple than I used to. With iLife, iWork, Safari and Mac OS X, a lot of the basics, and not so basics, are covered by Apple. I guess that speaks to a computer becoming more and more an all in one appliance.

If you think about a lot of other technologies, cars, TVs, etc, you don't buy a lot of stuff for them to extend their usefulness. They're mostly self contained. I think personal computers have moved in that direction.

 

[Stella]

It kind of disappoints me that the touch won't support games. Mainly because I play Texas Hold Em a lot on my video right now, and seeing how i paid $5 for it and i now have no use for it that makes me kind of sad..

However the new iPod + Safari will help me with that. Hello Java games.

The iPhone doesn't contain a JRE ( Java runtime ) , so I doubt whether the Touch will either. End result = No Java games for you ( unless you really mean Javascript - which is totally different ).

 

[killmoms]

3) no contacts/addressbook (at least, that's the impression I got from thing said on different forums, but it doesn't make sense because the other iPods DO have at least a read-only contacts area)

To be fair, there IS a contacts app on the iPod touch. All you'd have to do to know that is go to apple.com and look at it, right there on the home screen.

 

[iZaid]

leopard OS X

does anyone know if the iPhone and the iPod touch will have a software update, to leopard?

 

[DrMoray]

This is really good news. I think it will unleash the development teams that have been in the wings waiting for the possible Apple sanctioned iPhone API.

 

[earnjam]

If you think about a lot of other technologies, cars, TVs, etc, you don't buy a lot of stuff for them to extend their usefulness. They're mostly self contained. I think personal computers have moved in that direction.

I agree with the idea you are saying of technology moving to an all in one device, (as seen with the iPhone) but I think you could give better examples.

TV - cable box, DVD player, VHS Player (although no one buys these now), Apple TV, PS3, XBox, Wii, etc.

Cars - Stereos, Speakers, Screens, DVD Players, GPS, Lift Kits, Bigger Tires, trailer hitch, Bike or Ski racks, etc.

All these things extend the usefulness of the orginal product.

 

[irun5k]

What Apple does not want is a few million Joe Q. iPhones installing some POS third-party app that dilutes the "it just works" experience for the vast majority of potential customers.

I think the OP was spot on. In a couple months the "hacking" is going to look a lot less like hacking, and Joe Q. will be installing 3rd party apps. Actually, I'm a software engineer and was against messing around with my phone in this manner just because I didn't want to waste a lot of time messing things up. But as time goes by and the quality of 3rd party apps improves, I'd be stupid to not take advantage of the stuff that is available.

Apple has made some uncharacteristic mis-steps lately. Not having an official SDK is ridiculous for such a powerful device running OS X. They should have created the SDK day one, and used it to do all the internal development for the phone.

Note: I originally defended the decision for no SDK, because it didn't seem like it would matter to me. But after owning the phone, I feel that it is being drastically under-utilized because of the decision.

 

[varcos]

So instead of making a nice stable 3rd party SDK that would work securely, since they are "so" intent on keeping the iPhone from "crashing"; they'd rather have developers just hack stuff around that may or may not break it, and be half-baked? Without a sanctioned SDK, developers are shooting in the dark and can never make things on par with what would be capable otherwise.

I completely agree. Sure there will be some 3rd party hackers that'll make some nice tiny (mostly worthless) apps. But what's needed is some of the big guys that are developing for the palm to start developing for the iPhone. For example, Epocrates is a drug database that my Dad & Brother use constantly on their palms and they want to switch to an iPhone so badly they can't stand it. But they can't without Epocrates and Epocrates is not going to come out for the iPhone if Apple says that some of their updates may break whatever apps you have on your phone. Epocrates is a business and businesses need SDKs to ensure that their programs will run and continue to run on the devices in question no matter what.

 

[cmcconkey]

I completely agree. Sure there will be some 3rd party hackers that'll make some nice tiny (mostly worthless) apps. But what's needed is some of the big guys that are developing for the palm to start developing for the iPhone. For example, Epocrates is a drug database that my Dad & Brother use constantly on their palms and they want to switch to an iPhone so badly they can't stand it. But they can't without Epocrates and Epocrates is not going to come out for the iPhone if Apple says that some of their updates may break whatever apps you have on your phone. Epocrates is a business and businesses need SDKs to ensure that their programs will run and continue to run on the devices in question no matter what.

I almost agree with you on this one. But in the interest of the Touch, because my girlfriend has Verizon and refuses to switch (AT&T sucks around here).

She is in the medical field and has been eyeing a Palm for a while but I keep telling her to hold off because of the crappy data plans that Verizon offers, which you must get if you have a smart phone. I think that the Touch would be a great device to have medical information, like you have spoke of, on. It is just a great idea, but if no SDK comes out then there won't be a version of it on what could be one of the greatest things that Apple has put their name on.


Christopher