Apple's Joswiak on the iPhone, iPod Touch, 3rd Party Apps

[wizard]

Bluetooth is really needed!

I'm not sure I agree with their position on software. Seems like an issue of things not ready for prime time, but then again I have often considered the iPhone half done product. I think this is something that needs to be waited out. If I can't wait I can always look into alternative hardware.

Software is one issue but the point of writing this letter is to point out that they really need to get Bluetooth into a iPod variant as soon as possible. Having I/O capacity beyond the regular port is very important and can have a dramatic impact on the units viability outside the media player world. The things that come to mind that would benefit are, stereo head sets, access to printers, access to modems, access to interface adapters and probably a few more things. If Apple doesn't understand the need for a flexible I/O path on these devices then they boat has sailed and they aren't on it.

Along with the above, the units need access to a USB port for much the same reason as above. I'm not talking about the USB built into the iPod dock port but rather one that we can plug a standard USB cable into.

Yes in either case drivers will be an issue but I believe Apple can make this work. Beyond that they can leverage off of OS/Z on the big machines.

Don't get me wrong I'm not mad about the newly released unit not having Bluetooth. As long as the current Touch is targeted at the lower end it is really no big deal. If on the other hand Apple drags its feet for days on end then we have trouble. In other words I expect to see new hardware with extented capabilities soon.

Dave

 

[pedroistheman]

Apple is blowing out 4GB iPhones for $299, very tempting since I never got the new SIM card for my RAZR I ordered. .

Where did you hear this? I was looking online, but only the 8 gig was listed.

 

[3.1416]

I can see why Apple wanted to keep the iPhone closed.

So can I. I don't see why any customer would actively support that decision.

All these hacks are coming out and I for one think it's all getting messy.

So don't use them.

I think the phone should stay closed, let apple create the apps they want and if you don't like that, buy another phone. You are allowed to! Don't ruin it for the people who want the nice phone / ipod / internet package that it is now.

Um, nobody is going to steal your iPhone and forcibly install third-party apps on it. How about you don't ruin it for the people who see much more potential in it than what Apple officially supports.

 

[Evangelion]

Where did you hear this? I was looking online, but only the 8 gig was listed.

Bottom-right corner, under the special deals: "While supplies last. Remaining 4GB iPhone only $299"

 

[iShak]

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/12/apple-backtracks-updates-will-most-likely-break-3rd-party-iph/

Apple backtracks, updates will "most likely break" 3rd party iPhone software

(sorry if this is a re-post)


wow, thats a quick kick in the nuts Apple ..

 

[Roller]

Um, nobody is going to steal your iPhone and forcibly install third-party apps on it. How about you don't ruin it for the people who see much more potential in it than what Apple officially supports.

I agree. Although I haven't installed any third-party apps yet, it's getting to the point where some of them add functionality that is just too good for me to pass up.

The more this happens, and the easier it gets to do third-party installs, the more pressure there will be for an Apple-sanctioned SDK for iPhone. Whether that will be sufficient for Apple to offer one will depend on their perception that lack of a kit is limiting iPhone sales or that selling one would increase sales.

Meanwhile, I'd be happy with a s/w update that addresses some of the more glaring limitations in the iPhone's existing s/w, but I'm not expecting much before Leopard rolls out next month.

 

[gloss]

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/12/apple-backtracks-updates-will-most-likely-break-3rd-party-iph/

Apple backtracks, updates will "most likely break" 3rd party iPhone software

(sorry if this is a re-post)


wow, thats a quick kick in the nuts Apple ..

Seriously. gg guys. Way to alienate the fanbase.

 

[peharri]

Bluetooth is COMPLETELY pointless on this device. Come on people .....

And playing music too! C'mon people, why would you want a device like that to play music?

(See, I can do the "dismiss people's valid complaints with a blanket, sweeping, statement that doesn't answer their issues at all" thing too...)

 

[woogli]

This is excellent news. I canceled my order of my iPod Touch because of the calendar app fiasco. This has me reconsidering. I am going to wait until it is actually released, follow the application circle and buy if it will meet my needs.

P-Worm

Ditto!

 

[MvdM]

When shopping in the us store my Country changes to US, but I'm from the Netherlands. Is there a way to order something in the US store when you live outside the US?

 

[cmcconkey]

And playing music too! C'mon people, why would you want a device like that to play music?

(See, I can do the "dismiss people's valid complaints with a blanket, sweeping, statement that doesn't answer their issues at all" thing too...)

My main purpose in getting this is for what a PDA should be. I know that eventually mail will end up on this device and it will do everything that I need. It is just a secondary feature to me that it can play music and video, not the main feature.

Christopher

 

[redgaz26]

The comment that Apple will not intentionally break support for third party software has been the deciding vote in me buying an iPod touch or iPhone.

Now I just have to pick which one... If only the iPhone was offered pay-as-you-go...

I just hope they release the carrier and pricing soon, I cannot wait much longer.
iphone for me unless it's some ridiculous monthly charge.
I'll be happy with £249 for the phone and £30 a month, and £100 for applecare.

 

[MattInOz]

Seriously. gg guys. Way to alienate the fanbase.

Not sure why this is seen an attack on the fan base or the "underground" developer community?

Apple launched the device saying it was all about stabilty and experience.
It's already been noted that the system is stripped back and i guess they want to strip it back further if they can. It just seem apple want to make it clear that until they can lock down and publish API's then everything is up for grabs, code a developer is hooked in to may just disappear, to fix a bug or because apple don't need it after all, it save conflict to get rid of it.

It's no different to the numerous un-documented functions in the main OS.
"You can use them but don't blame us if they change/break/disappear, and your customers start calling you angry"

 

[wizard]

The touch not having bluetooth is a low point, it would be nice to connect to car systems, wireless headsets, and macs. Ohh well maybe the hardware is there and you just have to turn it on, like the extensions to the mac mini.

Yep I consider that a big omission. There are so many uses for Bluetooth on a hand held unit that it is silly not to have it there. While I can understand having one model without, I do hope that this facility gets moved into a unit that does work. Apple has a really incredible opportunity here I hope they don't blow it.

I just hope that Apple doesn't get to manipulative of the market. I know they like to get their jollies but at least the could take into account customer needs Further Touch is a platform that will draw the masses to the store and get them to open their wallets..
dave

 

[roblevi]

iPod Touch and Bluetooth

Bluetooth is huge. The common image of an iPod user is some youngster in silouette jumping around to the music. Then there's other's looking at videos, photos, et al- all doing fun things requiring nano seconds of attention at a time. But this thing is a computer. The Wi-Fi link means you will access the Internet, and for many, that means heavy E-mail use; reading all manner of documents; checking newspapers and periodicals online; and not the least, responding, by typing in text on a portable bluetooth keyboard. And I mean typing a lot, getting things done. (Try typing this post with the touch screen keyboard on the device, or inputting it with handwriting recognition software.) People will be using this thing to access documents, and they'll inevitably want that to include text or word processing and spreadsheets. And they'll want to do more than read them- they'll want to edit or originate them on the road. So you need the keyboard. There's also wireless connectivity to other devices. (Okay, even I might want to listen to music using the wireless connection.) But when I looked at the iPod screen on the Apple website video, I see a whole icon devoted to... Starbucks? I don't want to be a snob about this, but how about letting people load the desktop they want for each unit and let people really use this device, the way they do with the Nokia N800 tablet. From what I've seen about the iPod, if the touch screen works as well as the iPhone's, this will be a powerful device for accessing and reading web pages- which may be more important in the end than jumping around while your blowing out your ear drums. This from an old fart, so cut me some slack. No harm intended.

 

[pamon]

i personally think it'll be interesting with the iphone update to see what happens with 3rd party apps. Will they increase or decrease? Will an SDK kit be released or just safari apps from now on?

 

[starkruzr]

I can see why Apple wanted to keep the iPhone closed. All these hacks are coming out and I for one think it's all getting messy. Take the iToner. With the iPhone update, Apple could have done an update and known that it will work. All the happy little iPhone users would have docked and BANG, a new update and everyone would be happy. Now, we have some "usefull" 3rd party apps. That's nice and all, but what does Apple do. Do they honour the people who bought the phone, happy in the fact that it was exactly what they wanted, or does Apple now have to worry about writing updates that will not accidentally over-write the 3rd party apps code etc... Then all the people who just had to have these useless apps on a phone that you KNEW would be closed, will complain that they have to re-install the hacks, and do the new setup etc...
God, I think if these people wanted a phone to run all these little apps, they would have bought a phone that allows it. Now people will complain that Apple is doing the wrong thing again. I think it's just a little crazy. Where do they go from here? I think the phone should stay closed, let apple create the apps they want and if you don't like that, buy another phone. You are allowed to! Don't ruin it for the people who want the nice phone / ipod / internet package that it is now.

What ARE you talking about?

Do they honour the people who bought the phone, happy in the fact that it was exactly what they wanted

Yes.

or does Apple now have to worry about writing updates that will not accidentally over-write the 3rd party apps code etc...

No.

Were you not listening to what they said? Joswiak explicitly stated that Apple will neither intentionally break, nor encourage, nor support third-party applications on the iPhone. This means that it's caveat emptor when it comes to third-party binaries. This is ENTIRELY ACCEPTABLE to the third-party dev community, because support was never promised and we created the third-party app environment practically ex nihilo.

Then all the people who just had to have these useless apps on a phone that you KNEW would be closed, will complain that they have to re-install the hacks, and do the new setup etc.

There are plenty of extremely useful applications available for the iPhone. How about a to-do list? AIM client? RSS reader? IRC client? SSH client -- and practically every other useful utility in the BSD userland? File manager? Financial record keeper? Umpteen games? Text editor? Flickr poster? The list goes on and on and on. Perhaps you have no need for these things. If that's the case, you must not be much of a geek. Nobody's perfect, I guess

As for complaining, no one in their right mind will complain. Everyone knows and is explicitly told when they install Installer.app that a software update will "dump and remix" their iPhone and they'll have to reinstall their applications. Pretty sure it hoses /var/root too -- so what? This is not a difficult or complicated process.

God, I think if these people wanted a phone to run all these little apps, they would have bought a phone that allows it.

God, there ISN'T a phone that runs all of these applications and doesn't SUCK horribly. The reason why geeks want iPhones is not because they want to be locked into whatever Apple tells them they can use. It's because the iPhone's OS and interface is the most simultaneously advanced and easy-to-use of any smartphone available. Have you even LOOKED at the Mobile OS X API? It's freaking AWESOME. It's enabled the development of all kinds of great stuff in a tiny fraction of time.

Where do they go from here?

Precisely where they're going, which is to allow but not support 3rd-party development and proceed with allowing the iPhone to mature as a device and a platform. There is also every indication that an Apple-supported SDK will be released sometime after Leopard comes out (probably WWDC '08). If it isn't, there will be rioting in the streets. There are a LOT of big dev houses that are chomping at the bit to get their hands on that API, but can't develop apps for the machine because they can't sell applications that might be broken with a software update. This will change after the SDK is released (look at Objective C 2.0, which has built-in garbage collection and plenty of other mobile-friendly awesomeness).

I think the phone should stay closed, let apple create the apps they want and if you don't like that, buy another phone.

I think you're wrong, and there ISN'T another phone anything like the iPhone. Windows Mobile is garbage. Palm is garbage. There is no Linux-based PDA or smartphone of any note out there -- certainly nothing that encourages both Free Software and commercial software development like the iPhone does. I think it is quite clear that Apple knows what they have here and are prepared to milk it for all it's worth. If YOU don't like the extra applications, don't install them and they won't destabilize or hurt your experience with the iPhone.

Don't ruin it for the people who want the nice phone / ipod / internet package that it is now.

Nice false syllogism.

 

[ncsmith4]

My thoughts, since Im bored.

You bought the iPhone. Not any other phone. You bought what Apple sold. Why try to mod/hack/eff it up? If you dont like the phone or *cant live* without some other feature that the iPhone doesnt have... buy a different phone that has those features.

 

[TurboSC]

My thoughts, since Im bored.

You bought the iPhone. Not any other phone. You bought what Apple sold. Why try to mod/hack/eff it up? If you dont like the phone or *cant live* without some other feature that the iPhone doesnt have... buy a different phone that has those features.

While most people are content with the settings and features given to them, other's like to add functionality and character to their electronics.

The same analogy can be said about cars... some people are fine with the looks / performance, others enjoy modding it

 

[starkruzr]

My thoughts, since Im bored.

You bought the iPhone. Not any other phone. You bought what Apple sold. Why try to mod/hack/eff it up? If you dont like the phone or *cant live* without some other feature that the iPhone doesnt have... buy a different phone that has those features.

Why try to mod/hack/eff it up?

To make it better?

Maybe we're just talking past each other here. Do you simply not understand the hacker ethic?

There is no other phone with the features iPhone hackers require, because none of those other phones are iPhones. It's like saying "go find another blue sky if you want to fly in this one; this one wasn't designed to be flown in." There are no other phones that have Cocoa programming interfaces.

Do you remember the original promotion material for the iPhone? They went out of their way to say it "has Cocoa." Much was made of the fact that the device ran OS X and could be programmed in Objective-C.

Then what happened? Apple realized that they spoke too soon, the API was not stable and would likely mutate quite a bit after release, and so Steve decided to yank the Cocoa promotion and instead go for the "sweet solution" talk (which really offended a lot of developers at this years WWDC, but what can you do?). Why? Because the iPhone's programming interfaces ARE Leopard's. Several developers have made note of this fact. Heck, take a look at this:

jtd@Carina:~$ ssh root@pyxis
root@pyxis's password: 
Last login: Sun Sep 16 02:24:26 2007 from 192.168.1.146
# uname -a
Darwin Pyxis 9.0.0d1 Darwin Kernel Version 9.0.0d1: Fri Jun 22 00:38:56 PDT 2007; root:xnu-933.0.1.178.obj~1/RELEASE_ARM_S5L8900XRB iPhone1,1 Darwin
#

See that? Darwin Kernel Version 9. That's Leopard. This is the reason we will not be seeing an iPhone SDK until probably after 10.5.1 on the desktop at least.

If you dont like the phone or *cant live* without some other feature that the iPhone doesnt have... buy a different phone that has those features.

It puzzles me that you think you have the right, or perhaps the mandate? to tell hackers what they "should" do or not do.

What are you going to do when Apple releases the SDK? Tell them to take it down so that you won't be affected ... by other people ... putting applications on THEIR machines?

Apple has created the next generation of portable, extensible, incredibly easy to use, ridiculously powerful devices. Get used to it.

 

[ncsmith4]

Valid points. To that I would only say to not complain. That's kinda my main thing. People complaining about what isnt on the phone despite knowing about it before their purchase.