Apple's Joswiak on the iPhone, iPod Touch, 3rd Party Apps

[Detlev]

I understand nobody here has an iTouch yet, nor seen one for that matter (outside of Steve's introduction of it) but I'm at a loss as to why there is no eMail. Even though there is no eMail client can't you still access webmail accounts via Safari? I am thinking .mac, gmail, etc. Can someone enlighten me?

Can someone verify the pay as you go? Also, don't you have to be of a certain age to get an AT&T account? What might that be?

 

[MonkeyClaw]

Or bluetooth thumb-keyboards.

The there are 5 things that made me decide not to buy the touch:

1) no bluetooth (thumb keyboard for ssh client)
2) no mail.app
3) no contacts/addressbook (at least, that's the impression I got from thing said on different forums, but it doesn't make sense because the other iPods DO have at least a read-only contacts area)
4) no notes application (again, other iPods have a read-only notes ability, why not the touch?)
5) no read/write calendar, addressbook, notes (the touch has so many more input possibilities than the other ipods, why is the calendar not going to allow input? and if you included the addressbook and notes abilities on other iPods, it would make sense to have those be read-write as well).

I'll look at getting an iPhone in October or November (hopefully using all 9's for the SSN will still work, as I want to do pay-as-you-go). But, as I've said elsewhere, I decided on a Nokia N800 over an iPod Touch. Got it yesterday. Like it mostly so far (the included email app doesn't do true IMAP, but I'm still looking at my options; if nothing else, I can use my mail server's webmail via the N800's included web browser (Opera)). I haven't installed ssh, or bought the bluetooth thumb keyboard, yet, though. That's when I expect to start having a lot of fun with it

Well it does have a read only calendar app and a read/write address book, but yea no notes as far as i know which makes me a sad panda... Still cool though!

 

[bretm]

Think about it though. Would it really be smart for him to say that Apple will do everything possible to break hacks? No, it would draw some people away from buying iPhones. It may not be their main concern or even one of their top concerns, but I think to an extent they are doing things that may prevent hacks.

Then why bother reading articles if you're just going to make up your mind now matter what they say? You've decided they have a stance and if they say they don't, in your mind they're just saying that for some conspiratory reason.

 

[Stella]

I understand nobody here has an iTouch yet, nor seen one for that matter (outside of Steve's introduction of it) but I'm at a loss as to why there is no eMail. Even though there is no eMail client can't you still access webmail accounts via Safari? I am thinking .mac, gmail, etc. Can someone enlighten me?

Sure you can use webmail with Safari on iTouch - as long as there's no flash, Java etc ( most don't ). BUT... its not nearly as convenient as using a native mail client.

 

[Virgil-TB2]

So instead of making a nice stable 3rd party SDK that would work securely, since they are "so" intent on keeping the iPhone from "crashing"; they'd rather have developers just hack stuff around that may or may not break it, and be half-baked? Without a sanctioned SDK, developers are shooting in the dark and can never make things on par with what would be capable otherwise.

That's pretty much the point though.

They are drawing a line in the sand between "official" and "non-official" apps and letting everyone know that there is a difference between the two in terms of reliability and performance. If they provide the SDK, then no matter what, people will hold Apple to account when the poorly written game emulator they downloaded from "dodgysoftware.com" screws up their iPhone.

What's hard to understand about that?

I find it amazing how people find something to complain about in virtually every scenario proffered. Here Apple is saying they will basically turn a blind eye to the (mostly illegal) efforts of the hackers and somehow that is still spun as "bad"????

I mean Apple is directly implying here that as long as the app is well written, it will never be interfered with. That opens up a *sales* model for the hackers, in that as long as they use standard coding procedures, their app will likely work for as long as the iPhone is around. This is something to take to the bank, not something to complain about.

 

[Sweetbike40]

are these safe?

I don't think this is such great news. I'd rather hear there will be more programs in the future for both the Touch and Phone. I'd feel more comfortable using something Apple has created with support if something goes wrong. Like i really want to spend 400, install some software some hacker make only for it to freeze my ipod.

Can't these programs from hackers mess things up? Cause problems? I just remember years ago installing 3rd party software onto my G3 and it caused nothing but problems. Are things better now with 3rd party software?

 

[yagrax]

iPhone "hacks"

I don't think this is such great news. I'd rather hear there will be more programs in the future for both the Touch and Phone. I'd feel more comfortable using something Apple has created with support if something goes wrong. Like i really want to spend 400, install some software some hacker make only for it to freeze my ipod.

Can't these programs from hackers mess things up? Cause problems? I just remember years ago installing 3rd party software onto my G3 and it caused nothing but problems. Are things better now with 3rd party software?

I've been running the "hack" apps since nearly day one, no mess ups and the installer/jailbreak program iBrickr is smooth and trouble-free, the apps are good, stable, and constantly updated with new features - these guys are serious coders. The Nintendo emulator is really good now, there's an AOL IM chat program, several games including Blackjack, an eBook reader, a File System manager, Voice Notes, and a bunch of utilities. I'm personally coding a Notes and ToDo list sync-er with Outlook. You should really check them out.

Those who "read the news" a month ago on hack apps are quickly out of touch, this aspect of the iPhone is moving at light speed. Additionally, I don't see why these apps couldn't run on the iPodT either.

 

[gadgetgirl85]

I get this feeling, I could be wrong but I think that Apple might make their own apps that you can buy down the track

 

[twoodcc]

seems like good news to me (for the most part).

so there's no games for the iPod Touch, but what about iPhone games?

 

[GravityEyes]

The touch not having bluetooth is a low point, it would be nice to connect to car systems, wireless headsets, and macs. Ohh well maybe the hardware is there and you just have to turn it on, like the extensions to the mac mini.

Bluetooth is COMPLETELY pointless on this device. Come on people .....

 

[mrgreen4242]

I can see the reasoning behind no 3rd party software on the iPhone... there's security issues to worry about, and there's also issues of people writing inefficient apps that hog wireless bandwidth (which is limited per cell tower, I think, and also hurts AT&T's bottom line on unlimited data plans), as well as the issue of bricking peoples phones with bad software which is far more of a PITA than for a non-phone device (that hardware is linked to a phone number/account, etc). There's also the idea that they are protecting revenue for their partners by making sure that some new feature is only available as a paid-for service, not a free third party app.

On the touch though, if something screws up your iPod royally you can just do a software restore and resync it, problem solved. I'm assuming that Apple will make changes that could stop 3rd party software if they uncover a security issue which they then fix (which could break any loophole that people are using to get 3rd party apps to run). However, I'm hopeful that this
means we'll see someone write both a generic installer for iPod touch apps, as well as some sort of unofficial library for XCode to help other people develop touch applications.

I also wonder if, as some other people have drawn some connections, that this is sort of a test to see what people want out of the touch without having to develop or support things that could fail. If there's lots of people who end up creating and using applications for the touch, Apple could make money selling licenses for 'approved' iPod touch software and sell it through iTMS like the do for games.

Anyways, this makes me much, much more interest in the touch, and assuming that a decent 3rd party/homebrew software community springs up I'll get one once they hit the refurb store.

 

[GravityEyes]

Or bluetooth thumb-keyboards.

The there are 5 things that made me decide not to buy the touch:

1 because its not an iPhone minus the phone
2) because its not an iPhone minus the phone
3) because its not an iPhone minus the phone
4) because its not an iPhone minus the phone
5) because its not an iPhone minus the phone

FIXED !

 

[pcorajr]

Apple takes a neutral stance - they're not going to stop anyone from writing apps, and they're not going to maliciously design software updates to break the native apps, but they're not going to care if their software updates accidentally break the native apps either.

This is good to hear. Im still debating on what to get. Im tempted about buying the touch becase of the storage but the Iphone would be a great device also because it would mke me drop from 2 portable devices (1 GB nano + blackberry) to just one

 

[Stella]

Are you trying to say you never install 3rd party apps on your Mac?

( Or are you joking?)

Can't these programs from hackers mess things up? Cause problems? I just remember years ago installing 3rd party software onto my G3 and it caused nothing but problems. Are things better now with 3rd party software?

Bluetooth is COMPLETELY pointless on this device. Come on people .....

Syncing ( not music, media files etc - take too long ), listening with your BT headphones.

Whats pointless about that?

 

[mrgreen4242]

Bluetooth is COMPLETELY pointless on this device. Come on people .....

WHAT? There's a TON of great uses for BT on the Touch, more than on probably any other machine!

1) Tether it to a BT cellphone for data connection, or just to sync contacts, etc
2) BT keyboard
3) BT headphones (for music)
4) BT headset (for VoIP - this is probably the biggest use)

It's not an absolutely required feature to make it a good product, but it would open up some HUGE potentials for the touch (namely the VoIP, which is, I suspect, why it doesn't have it).

 

[swingerofbirch]

I agree with the idea you are saying of technology moving to an all in one device, (as seen with the iPhone) but I think you could give better examples.

TV - cable box, DVD player, VHS Player (although no one buys these now), Apple TV, PS3, XBox, Wii, etc.

Cars - Stereos, Speakers, Screens, DVD Players, GPS, Lift Kits, Bigger Tires, trailer hitch, Bike or Ski racks, etc.

All these things extend the usefulness of the orginal product.

Right, but what I meant was for example, you would never think of replacing the operating system on your television, granted the software on televisions is rudimentary. Or you wouldn't buy a car without doors and get the doors somewhere else.

I was just born when personal computers started to become mainstream, so I can't say firsthand, but what I've heard is that you would need a floppy disk to put in the computer just to make it work. Now it seems self evident that the boot-up software would be inside the computer already. I used to think that convergence didn't make sense because you'd always have a device that was a jack of all trades and a king of none, but I think Apple has proved otherwise with the Mac, and has DEFINITELY proven it with the iPhone. Before the iPhone, the idea of wanting to bother with music or video on a phone (which I have tried on my phone with VCAST) seemed ridiculous. Apple made it not ridiculous by making it even better than the previously separate solutions (an iPod and a phone) in one device. But some things take time. Like the camera on the iPhone makes sense in that you can upload instantly from the phone to the web. But it doesn't make sense for a lot of situations because the camera is of relatively poor quality. I think Apple is showing though that convergence can work and have a strong future.

 

[GravityEyes]

WHAT? There's a TON of great uses for BT on the Touch, more than on probably any other machine!

1) Tether it to a BT cellphone for data connection, or just to sync contacts, etc
2) BT keyboard
3) BT headphones (for music)
4) BT headset (for VoIP - this is probably the biggest use)

It's not an absolutely required feature to make it a good product, but it would open up some HUGE potentials for the touch (namely the VoIP, which is, I suspect, why it doesn't have it).

Hmmmm, but of the the things you mentioned above. Even the iPhone, with it's bluetooth, doesnt support a single one - and most likely will not. And the VOIP one - well, you already answered that

 

[lazyrighteye]

She is in the medical field and has been eyeing a Palm for a while but I keep telling her to hold off because of the crappy data plans that Verizon offers, which you must get if you have a smart phone.

FWIW, I used a VZW Treo 650 for 2 years withOUT a data plan. I simply had them block all data - web, email, etc. They can disable all of those options. And be careful: any change to your plan and they go ahead and auto enroll you in the highest data package. Convenient, huh? They did that to me twice. To their 'credit,' they eventually refunded hundreds of dollars to my account. But they did not make it easy. And the fact they even operate in that manner is one of many reasons I left. Plus, there was no WAY I could justify an additional ~$50 for internet that was much slower than dial up. Call me crazy...

Since switching to AT&T and an iPhone, my monthly bill has gone way down (by about $40) and my functionality way, way up.

Win win. For me. So far.

YRMV

 

[sblasl]

There is no Java.

...However the new iPod + Safari will help me with that. Hello Java games.

 

[La Porta]

I was just born when personal computers started to become mainstream, so I can't say firsthand, but what I've heard is that you would need a floppy disk to put in the computer just to make it work.

Dude...and I thought I would never see the day when I woulc start to think that I was old...and i'm only 23...

 

[sblasl]

Don't you think Apple has their own in-house SDK, surely they must.

Apple has made some uncharacteristic mis-steps lately. Not having an official SDK is ridiculous for such a powerful device running OS X. They should have created the SDK day one, and used it to do all the internal development for the phone.

Minimum age I beleive is 18 years old.

Can someone verify the pay as you go? Also, don't you have to be of a certain age to get an AT&T account? What might that be?

I'm sure that there is going to be a bunch of cat & mouse games going on with Apple's iPhone team and the 3rd party folks.

 

[Sweetbike40]

Are you trying to say you never install 3rd party apps on your Mac?

( Or are you joking?)




Syncing ( not music, media files etc - take too long ), listening with your BT headphones.

Whats pointless about that?

Just very careful what i install on my computer now. If Adobe is considered a 3rd party, then of course i have 3rd party software. (i'm kinda confused on what 3rd party is..... when i hear that, i think of the freeware/shareware stuff that is out there....those kinds of things, i'm not talking about big programs) If something came out for the Touch, i just wouldn't install it right away.

 

[savar]

Im not saying that the iPod touch has bluetooth but...

Your quote only makes sense on components, not embedded components. It may be cheaper under some circumstances to print a single board, not have two setups requiring two different manufacturing processes. I am sure not including bluetooth on the iPod touch was more a consideration toward not cutting into iPhone sales, loyal 3rd party sales, and HD-radio interferences. Look at the innards of an iMac, all mobile computing parts. Why make a 3rd manufacturing line for desktop machines when you can focus all you're R&D on miniturizing mobile parts that will end up in several of your lineups.

Your logic is sound, but it's unlikely. The iphone and ipod have different form factors (iphone is taller and thicker from what i hear), and we know that there isn't a CDMA transceiver. The two facts combined mean that the board was probably significantly rerouted anyway, so no reason to keep the bluetooth chip in there.

And even if the board wasn't rerouted at all, its possible to leave the traces intact for an IC and then not solder that IC onto the board. Unless apple is planning some big bluetooth surprise (like ipod squirting activated by firmware update), the chip is definitely not in there. Why would they include it and then not use it?

 

[mrgreen4242]

Just very careful what i install on my computer now. If Adobe is considered a 3rd party, then of course i have 3rd party software. (i'm kinda confused on what 3rd party is..... when i hear that, i think of the freeware/shareware stuff that is out there....those kinds of things, i'm not talking about big programs) If something came out for the Touch, i just wouldn't install it right away.

3rd party means it's made by someone other than the system manufacturer. So, in our cases, anything not made by Apple is considered 3rd party, including Adobe. However, some software gets an official "stamp of approval" when it's created by an approved/authorized Apple developer... I'm not sure Apple has a full program for this, but if they sell it from the Apple store, that's a pretty big seal of approval.

 

[Marx55]

Is this possible with the iPod touch?

1. Create Keynote or PowerPoint presentation on Mac or Windows.

2. Save the Keynote or PowerPoint NATIVE application on the iPod touch.

3. Use the iPod touch as the ultimate presentation remote (wired or wireless).