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Apple's MacBook Pro vs. Microsoft's Surface Book 2
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We have several Surface Book 2 users in my company. They all touted the tablet separation when they bought it. Within a few weeks, they only use it as a regular laptop and never separate the screen. One user even forgot that it was possible but just didn't see the need for it. As for the touchscreen to zoom, I much rather use the trackpad than fingerprint up my screen.
I bet Apple is looking more at gestures more than touchscreens because you can get a similar result without having to touch your monitor.
I bet Apple is looking more at gestures more than touchscreens because you can get a similar result without having to touch your monitor.
All you have to do is go to Updates and set updates for sometime in the night when you're not using the computer. That way you'll never have an update installing while you're using the computer. I much prefer this method to Apple's OS which throws up and update while I'm using the computer and have to tell it to try again the next day in order to get it out of my face. I wish Apple would implement something similar with its updates.
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It's not just about the touchscreen, I really enjoy using the pen to highlight and make comments on docs. Apple is really missing out by insisting you buy an iPad with Pencil in order to do the same thing. Plus the pen is a joy to use in Photoshop and Lightroom for photo editing.
I know it's not the same hardware as the Surface Book, but I recently laid hands on a Surface Laptop, and was blown away by how BAD the trackpad was on it. It was tiny, and had a totally different click feel/travel from the bottom to the top of the pad, like a trackpad from 1998.
Considering how much I use the trackpad on a daily basis, that would be a complete deal-breaker for me. It also underscored for me just how GOOD Apple's trackpads are. I thought the whole "fake click" thing would be stupid, but I actually find it fascinating, and I'm amazed at how completely natural the Taptic Engine feels.
Considering how much I use the trackpad on a daily basis, that would be a complete deal-breaker for me. It also underscored for me just how GOOD Apple's trackpads are. I thought the whole "fake click" thing would be stupid, but I actually find it fascinating, and I'm amazed at how completely natural the Taptic Engine feels.
As long as windows PCs, including surface PCs, often forgets to stay in, or enter sleep/hibernation mode, I would never prefer a PC.
I have many times opened up my PC on a long travel only to find the battery drained while in my bag.
NEVER happened to any of my Macs.
And even the times when the sleep mode works correctly, the battery of my Surface Pro 4 lasts seldom more than 3 hours. Thats why I always carry a Mac or an iPad as a backup.
I have many times opened up my PC on a long travel only to find the battery drained while in my bag.
NEVER happened to any of my Macs.
And even the times when the sleep mode works correctly, the battery of my Surface Pro 4 lasts seldom more than 3 hours. Thats why I always carry a Mac or an iPad as a backup.
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I'll be buying whatever the new MBP is (can't get here soon enough for me), but it does seem like an update may be due for more than just a speed bump.
That's true. If you could Apple Pencil on a MBP HDR screen in Photoshop, that would be crazy.
So, Steve's right that you wouldn't really want a touchscreen on a laptop, but if you flipped the display over, then you could. I'd like to see a MBP that when you turn the screen over the actions work like an iPad.
So, Steve's right that you wouldn't really want a touchscreen on a laptop, but if you flipped the display over, then you could. I'd like to see a MBP that when you turn the screen over the actions work like an iPad.
When one goes out to buy a laptop, they want a laptop. Not a tablet, mobile phone or whatever. We are not playing transformers here and laptops exist as working tools. So, pencils, fingers on the screen and screens that detach are as useful as a coffeemaker is in a car: can you install one there? yes you can! do you need one? no you don't!
And I don't even start with the OS itself! Win10! yikes
And I don't even start with the OS itself! Win10! yikes
I'd agree with that, and iPad Pro is as big as I'd want for a note taking tablet. That said, for image editing and such, using high quality desktop tools with a built in "Wacom display" wouldn't hurt. I wouldn't be great for note taking. Mostly only graphics folks would find the need however.
In fact, at work, I'll put it up on my Griffin Elevator and use external keyboard and Magic TrackPad II. I wish I could get a TouchBar desktop keyboard (iMac Pro and Mac Pro, right?).
In fact, at work, I'll put it up on my Griffin Elevator and use external keyboard and Magic TrackPad II. I wish I could get a TouchBar desktop keyboard (iMac Pro and Mac Pro, right?).
I missed some of those Mac things too when I got my Surface Pro 2017, but third party apps fill the gap:
- Alfred - I used it too, mainly for quick app launching and file locating. I find that the inbuilt windows search is every bit as fast. Hit Windows key and type a letter or two, just like Alfred. I can launch apps and open files with just a few keystrokes using this method.
- Download the app Seer for a Mac preview replacement. Works great, just like Preview.
- I use the full version of acrobat to edit PDFs (on both Win and Mac), but there are other third party ones in the Windows store too, like Drawboard.
- I don’t use windows or Mac native mail apps (neither is great in my opinion). I use Outlook and gmail. I have tried assorted third party apps on both platforms that are better than the native apps.
I have hardly touched my 2013 MacBook Pro 13” Retina pr my iPad Air 2 since I started using the surface pro last year. I agree that Mac OS is nicer, but I am OK with Windows 10. It does a lot of things well, and the advantage of touchscreen, tablet mode, and pen support makes it the better choice for me. I love that I can use any input method I want: touchscreen, trackpad, keyboard, pen, mouse, dial, Wacom... it is so much more flexible and a more efficient tool for design work.
I have had some OS frustrations with copy and paste though, and dragging files or snippets between apps. It all works like you expect it to on OSX, but Win 10 has spottier implementation, even when trying to copy data between Microsoft apps. Copying an email and pasting in Onenote drops images.
Also, touchpad gestures in some Adobe apps aren’t as well implemented for Windows (fault of Adobe). I get around that by using on screen gestures or even the dial set to zoom. But I really wish Adobe would ramp up touchpad gestures in InDesign for Windows.
Overall, for me the proof is in the pudding: which of my devices do I reach for every day to get design work done? The Surface Pro. For all its faults, it is still the superior design machine.
I will buy a touchscreen and pen enabled Mac the moment it comes out though. I am tempted by that Mac touchscreen thing I only just read about today on this thread, but it looks awfully heavy and clunky. This svelte Surface Pro with fabulous built in kickstand has really spoiled me.
I had that issue with my surface pro waking in my bag from sleep and draining the battery. I have changed the setting to hibernate when the lid is shut. I do totally agree that the sleep feature is way better on macs.
Sorry. I didn't realize that, even if I said that personally, it's not going to be a problem, people will get upset and consider the statement as "ridiculous".
I refuse to join some angry mob and be upset about it; I have enough problems already and I don't need something as (for me anyway) insignificant as this to join in my personal headaches. Yes, I do understand why people would be upset about this. That doesn't mean I should be upset about it if I honestly only consider it as a nuisance.
I don't know what you're trying to do, but it seems that you either don't like the fact that this isn't much of a problem for me or that I seem to have a high tolerance for this sort of thing. If this is the case, please give up because there are better things to do than to try to make me look like an idiot just because it doesn't personally annoy me and trying to put words in my mouth by saying that I don't think that it's a problem for others (which I didn't even imply). Though, if this was not your intention, then I apologize for assuming, but then I don't really know why you needed to say this.
(I used "personally" and "for me" in bold because it seems that I wasn't clear on this, so sorry for not being clear here.)
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Isn’t the trackpad the same on all surface devices? I have read that it is.
I agree that the Mac trackpad is better (better gesture support in Adobe apps), but I have been surprised by how decent the Surface trackpad is compared to the one on the last Windows laptop I used. I have no problems with it. The glass is smooth and glides easily, and it is very precise despite its smaller size. You mentioned the clicking feel... I actually never click my trackpad on either windows or Mac. I always use double tap gestures. You might try that instead and see if your experience improves. I feel like clicking is clunky, slow and noisy.
As an animator and artist, I've been waiting for a full OS touchscreen solution from Apple. I was hoping the iMac Pro would have a touchscreen but wasn't to be. Because I work on 3D programs, we need quite powerful machines and a full OSX for the powerful programs. iPad Pro is great, but I don't think the big 3d programs will cater to just doing an app. Artists today want full capabilities of an OS and also full mobility...that's why the Surface Pro 2 is good, Microsoft knew that artists want a full solution....also like their Surface Studio.
In regards to Wacom, Windows dishes out their OS so it's readily installed when you buy some of the higher spec Wacoms. For Apple users, they have to plug it into their Mac. So finally, if a 3D artist who uses Apple (like myself) wants a touchscreen solution with a full OS, they have to turn to Wacom now, and that's like paying for another PC. So my point is, Microsoft is ahead of the game in this field I believe.
Would I buy a Surface Pro 2? It's definitely tempting from where I stand. Right now, I have an iPad Pro, a Macbook Pro and a Wacom. I hope Apple can combine that all into 1 device like the Surface Pro 2. So I don't have to carry 3 devices around like I do now.
In regards to Wacom, Windows dishes out their OS so it's readily installed when you buy some of the higher spec Wacoms. For Apple users, they have to plug it into their Mac. So finally, if a 3D artist who uses Apple (like myself) wants a touchscreen solution with a full OS, they have to turn to Wacom now, and that's like paying for another PC. So my point is, Microsoft is ahead of the game in this field I believe.
Would I buy a Surface Pro 2? It's definitely tempting from where I stand. Right now, I have an iPad Pro, a Macbook Pro and a Wacom. I hope Apple can combine that all into 1 device like the Surface Pro 2. So I don't have to carry 3 devices around like I do now.
It is funny to me that people will find it acceptable to “fingerprint up the screen” of their iOS devices, but somehow the concept of touching a screen running a full OS is verboten. What is the weird taboo all about? If you are fingerprint-phobic and never want to touch the screen, there are plenty of other input methods.
FWIW, I find my Surface Pro screen no more difficult to manage fingerprint-wise than my phone or iPad. As in, not a problem at all.
True, when one goes out to buy a laptop, they'll look at laptops
But what about the people who are out buying hybrids? When they go out to buy a hybrid device, are they not out to buy a hybrid device?
Your post started "I’m not too sure why you needed to say that." (in response to someone raising the keyboard issue) so, no, dropping a "personally" in there doesn't make your argument any less ridiculous. Never use the keyboard on your MBP? Good for you, but many, many other people (probably the vast majority of laptop users) do - even if (like me) they mostly use an external.
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No - its a high-profile example of a laptop very much targeted at the MacBook Pro market, but possibly not the "Creative Pro" (i.e. hardcore Adobe CS, pro video editing, audio production etc.) market. Its really up against the 13" MBP more than anything - power users will probably be looking for something with quad core.
"Creative Pro" wise - as you say - an issue is the lack of a true "mobile workstation" MBP that prioritises CPU/GPU power, screen size, internal storage etc. over size, weight and battery life.
... and buy double the tech and haul double the tech. I quite love having them in one device. Since the 2in1 is the fastest growing segment, I don't think I'm alone in that. But if you prefer having them separate, then Apple is definitely the place to be.
Actually - one of them had a pen and tried using it. It was just too unwieldy. But glad you found a use for yours.