Apple's MacBook Pro vs. Microsoft's Surface Book 2

[radus]

I just bought the Thinkpad X1 Yoga 3th Gen. i7-8550 in Addition to my MacBook Pro 15" i7 TB late 2016.
Bought it because I need to work with Linux and a VM is not enough.

Nevertheless I found the X1 Yoga is great - very fast ( nearly the same Geekbench as the MBook Pro ), put in a new WD Black SSD 1TB - 2018 very fast, Touch Screen is sensitive an fast, writing on it using the pen is a lot of fun, can use the MacbookPro's usb-c power supply interchangeable, thunderbolt 3 is working in linux and windows 10, 500nits display nearly as good as the MBookPro's, Fingerprint Sensor to login usable, no adapter needed for old fashion usb, sd-card slot included ../
I don't need fast graphics but an external thunderbolt 3 graphics adapter could be used.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

And, you forget, spying. And oh-my-god-so-ugly-and-counter-productive UI. Every time I have ideas to switch from Mac to Win, I install Win in Parallels, playing around 1 or 2 hours with it and start loving Mac again for next one or two years, then again install Win in Parallels and so on :-D

All true.

 

[convergent]

And, you forget, spying. And oh-my-god-so-ugly-and-counter-productive UI. Every time I have ideas to switch from Mac to Win, I install Win in Parallels, playing around 1 or 2 hours with it and start loving Mac again for next one or two years, then again install Win in Parallels and so on :-D

It takes more than an hour to transition to another OS. Anyone that thinks Windows 10 is "OMG ugly and counter productive" is being a bit dramatic and not honestly trying. So stick with MacOS and enjoy. I have no problem using either... they both have their pros and cons.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

It takes more than an hour to transition to another OS. Anyone that thinks Windows 10 is "OMG ugly and counter productive" is being a bit dramatic and not honestly trying. So stick with MacOS and enjoy. I have no problem using either... they both have their pros and cons.

I use both, I have a gaming PC. If MS could stop with the shady stuff and quit updating even when I tell it not to. If it would stop changing settings to "help me out" even when I say no. If it could get its act together, I might even kick my macbook pro to the curb. But I can't because MS sucks at everything important to an OS. Their store sucks, their universal apps suck, etc.

Anyway, time for some Overwatch in, you guessed in, Windows 10. Ugg.

 

[DiamonDecoden]

It takes more than an hour to transition to another OS. Anyone that thinks Windows 10 is "OMG ugly and counter productive" is being a bit dramatic and not honestly trying. So stick with MacOS and enjoy. I have no problem using either... they both have their pros and cons.

I'm honestly trying to understand those who like this and trying to see their side because like them I'm very design conscious. However, i just can't. Just cannot. They sounds like brats - lol. I might sounded like that in a way hahaaaaa

I am not loyal to any brand. If apple does it better then I'm a fan of apple (i loved mac os snow leopard). After learning and adapting to each os- ios, android, windows, mac, and linux. I came up with the same conclusion you did. There's pro and cons to each. Tech have come really far. It's no longer the windows 95 era lol or vista anymore. So be more open minded. Now I'm liking windows because it's more advanced on the hardware side. It doesn't even come close for mac.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I'm honestly trying to understand those who like this and trying to see their side because like them I'm very design conscious. However, i just can't. Just cannot. They sounds like brats - lol. I might sounded like that in a way hahaaaaa

I am not loyal to any brand. If apple does it better then I'm a fan of apple (i loved mac os snow leopard). After learning and adapting to each os- ios, android, windows, mac, and linux. I came up with the same conclusion you did. There's pro and cons to each. Tech have come really far. It's no longer the windows 95 era lol or vista anymore. So be more open minded. Now I'm liking windows because it's more advanced on the hardware side. It doesn't even come close for mac.

Does the so-called hardware advances in Windows mean anything if the software experience is subpar? I am also not loyal to any brand. I was really hoping the SP2, SP3, and SP4 would mean I could ditch my Macbook Pro and iPad Pro and have one device when I travel. Nope. Too many driver issues, sleep/wake/hibernate issues.

What are these hardware advancements? I am honestly curious...I build desktops all the time and I am trying to figure out what they are? I <ahem> even made a hackintosh that runs a 1060 GTX with all the trimmings. Usually it is in Win10 for gaming. But that's all it does, everything else is done on my MBP.

 

[DiamonDecoden]

Does the so-called hardware advances in Windows mean anything if the software experience is subpar? I am also not loyal to any brand. I was really hoping the SP2, SP3, and SP4 would mean I could ditch my Macbook Pro and iPad Pro and have one device when I travel. Nope. Too many driver issues, sleep/wake/hibernate issues.

What are these hardware advancements? I am honestly curious...I build desktops all the time and I am trying to figure out what they are? I <ahem> even made a hackintosh that runs a 1060 GTX with all the trimmings. Usually it is in Win10 for gaming. But that's all it does, everything else is done on my MBP.

Maybe you just prefer mac os now which is totally okay. I'm sure there are annoyances with windows 10 just as there are limitations to the macbook pro. All down to preferences. Neither is perfect and neither is horrible.

I love the 2 in 1 hardware capabilities of the HP Spectre. I seek a 2in1 solution which apple does not offer.

 

[radus]

Does the so-called hardware advances in Windows mean anything if the software experience is subpar? ...

I use OSX, Windows and Linux.
Windows 10 Software is not subpar ... it is different and in some aspects superior to OSX i.e. 2-in-1 capabitlities, Office - Onenote with local storage and "insert white space", ...

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I use OSX, Windows and Linux.
Windows 10 Software is not subpar ... it is different and in some aspects superior to OSX i.e. 2-in-1 capabitlities, Office - Onenote with local storage and "insert white space", ...

Well, I disagree. Scrivener is way worse, same with todoist, evernote, plex, affinity is pretty feature neutral, onenote is worse on the mac--but I don't use it, paprika, aeon timeline, heck the kindle reader, mail, etc.

If all you want is MS Office, then you are correct.

 

[radus]

May be Scrivener 3 for PC will be better.
The point is you can not handwrite on the mac, for PDF annotation this is essential ( taking notes on a meeting / lecture ).

I have never seen the usefulness of evernote against onenote and onedrive.
Don't know todoist - Wunderlist is the way to go on PC, Mac and Linux.

Try to install Ubuntu Linux on the MacBook Pro -- you have to carry a dongle, a usb keyboard and a usb mouse to be able to work.
Try to install java - image compression on the Mac - not possible.

For Photo I use the Mac.
But the only real reason for the Mac is OsiriX MD / Horos - a Programm to view and manipulate medical Dicom images.
Even for reporting I use a VM on the Mac with Windows10 as guest and Dragon Naturally Speaking.

Without OsiriX I would sell all our 10 Macs.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

May be Scrivener 3 for PC will be better.
The point is you can not handwrite on the mac, for PDF annotation this is essential ( taking notes on a meeting / lecture ).

I have never seen the usefulness of evernote against onenote and onedrive.
Don't know todoist - Wunderlist is the way to go on PC, Mac and Linux.

Try to install Ubuntu Linux on the MacBook Pro -- you have to carry a dongle, a usb keyboard and a usb mouse to be able to work.
Try to install java - image compression on the Mac - not possible.

For Photo I use the Mac.
But the only real reason for the Mac is OsiriX MD / Horos - a Programm to view and manipulate medical Dicom images.
Even for reporting I use a VM on the Mac with Windows10 as guest and Dragon Naturally Speaking.

Without OsiriX I would sell all our 10 Macs.

Well, yeah, if you want Ubuntu, get a Dell. I handwrite and sketch/draw on my iPad Pro/Pencil, and it is a superior experience compared to the surfaces I had in the past. For me. If it works for you, all good.

I don’t want to be the one to tell you this, but Wunderlist isn’t long for this world...MS bought it a couple of years ago, and plan on dumping it eventually. They aren’t even really updating it.

 

[radus]

Ubuntu is running perfectly on the Thinpad X1 Yoga 3Gen., even the pencil works out of the box.
The iPad Pro works -- but reoganzing handwritten notes without the ability to insert white space is very painful.
Onenote 2016 on PC can do it.


The new version of Onenote for ios can do it also, enabling experimental features. Great !

 

[Matz]

Guess I’m now in the ‘neither’ camp. After some deliberation, I’ve decided to get rid of my 2014 MacBook Pro, and probably replace it with a 10.5” iPad Pro. I say probably because my iPad Air 2 works just fine. We’ll see what the new Pro models look like, whenever they come out.

I have a 2010 iMac (upgraded with an SSD) at home for those things the iPad can’t do very well, and am finding I really don’t use a laptop anymore. So in the interest of simplifying my life, out it goes. Along with a bunch of other stuff.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Guess I’m now in the ‘neither’ camp. After some deliberation, I’ve decided to get rid of my 2014 MacBook Pro, and probably replace it with a 10.5” iPad Pro. I say probably because my iPad Air 2 works just fine. We’ll see what the new Pro models look like, whenever they come out.

I have a 2010 iMac (upgraded with an SSD) at home for those things the iPad can’t do very well, and am finding I really don’t use a laptop anymore. So in the interest of simplifying my life, out it goes. Along with a bunch of other stuff.

I am getting very close to a scenario like this. Really nice desktop and an iPad Pro.

 

[deepen03]

I use windows every day at work. I abhor it. I'd rather have my eyes pulled out than use it at home. As far as I am concerned; compared to OSX, Windows is a virus. Your mileage will certainly vary.

I'm typing this right now, on a 2007 ASUS Motherboard, with a Core 2 Quad and 6GB of RAM. Never an issue.
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I'm still new to windows 10. Still lots to learn about it. I hope there's a solution for you.

My PC is set to do updates in AFTER HOURS, such as 3am - 5am, when nobody uses it. I have woken up to new updates, and have never had an issue.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I'm typing this right now, on a 2007 ASUS Motherboard, with a Core 2 Quad and 6GB of RAM. Never an issue.
[doublepost=1527105432][/doublepost]

My PC is set to do updates in AFTER HOURS, such as 3am - 5am, when nobody uses it. I have woken up to new updates, and have never had an issue.

Consider yourself lucky. I have done everything you said, and even done some group policy stuff. It ignores all that and does what it wants.

 

[lcseds]

For me personally, both OSX and Win10 are great. Spending a little time configuring Win10 (rather than just looking at it and saying it sucks) pays off. Don't use the tile interface if you don't want. Both my MBP and my X1 Yoga boot to a screen that looks almost identical save for the menu bar at the bottom. When I use Excel, or Word, or Lightroom as an example, they look the same on both.

I use the OS to launch programs and avoid playing with the OS itself, on either platform. Copy/paste, move, drag/drop etc are nearly the same and work well. This of course is in my usage. Both have quirks I hate.

From my perspective, Microsoft is keeping it's foot on the pedal, for better or worse. Apple is in the backseat snoozing. Use what you like of course, but to say one is far superior than the other is hyperbole.

 

[keseys]

If Logic worked on Windows I would switch right away.
Anything to get a laptop without a useless touchbar.
Just make a MBP with 32 Gb ram, the latest processor and the standard ports.
How can it be so hard?
[doublepost=1527200514][/doublepost]

It's 2018 and Windows scaling in high DPI displays is still subpar.



Except it is double the thickness of a MacBook Pro, and the touchpad / touch screen is not really ergonomic (it requires carrying around a mouse). It may be more powerful, but not as portable as a MBP.

Well, I can't use my MBP without carrying around the USB-hub so.....

 

[jimmy_uk]

I've played around with a few Surface tablets. They all feel very cheap and flimsy. Wouldn't take one over any kind of Macbook.

Can't believe you've actually tried one as they are solid construction.

 

[convergent]

Can't believe you've actually tried one as they are solid construction.

Agree... mine is constructed quite well and comparable to my Macbook Air.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

I've played around with a few Surface tablets. They all feel very cheap and flimsy. Wouldn't take one over any kind of Macbook.

That's funny.. my Surface Book and Surface pro are very well constructed and feel and look like premium devices. All the reviews (even by Apple biased sites) seem to think that the build quality is on par with Apple and it does not feel flimsy at all. One thing is for sure: The Surface's keyboards are miles better. My MacBook is already repaired by Apple twice within a year because of the failing flimsy keyboard.

Even MacRumors has an article where they compare the Surface Book 2 to a MacBook pro:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...rosofts-surface-book-2.2117975/#post-26040369

Could it be that you are a little biased?

 

[notabadname]

Ehh, The MacBook Pro offers 4 USB-C Thunderbolt 3 ports, while the Surface Book has no Thunderbolt. That's a pretty big difference and means the MacBook is more versatile from an expansion standpoint- you can plug in high end video cards or high performance disk arrays that the Surface Book isn't going to be able to use effectively.

Agreed. Do I wish there was a traditional USB slot for the world of thumb drives - yes. But the ultimate flexibility of those 4 USB Cs should not be over looked. No port has more flexibility. And maybe, this is the standard that will truly stick - finally.

 

[philkang]

I use a lot of Mac products but I'm knee deep in PC as well. I am a bit unbiased because I personally own Alienware, Surface and Razer. Excluding Surface, Razer & Alienware's battery is a joke because of how beefed up their specs are, understandably so. I've used every imaginable PC out there but Mac just has a special connection to the user, something an item you use regularly should.

I use the computer mainly for design (2d & 3d, kinda 4d (VR/AR/MR?)). People in this field know that there are ways to really optimize, at least early on. During the "early" stages all I really want are: ease of use and longevity. Apple is the only product I can use (thanks to bootcamp) that really meets these two basic criteria. Trackpad actually does what I want it to and the processor is, I think, optimized to lengthen battery life.

For professionals, everyone knows how to optimize scenes but not much you can do in terms of battery life or... the trackpad.

I've learned that your connection to the device is more important than razzle dazzle features of any company (Think fancy 2-1 tablet combos... Surface), even the specs! Gimmicks are never as good as solid basics. In my case it's just a responsive trackpad and reliable battery. I have enough tricks up my sleeves to forgo the beefy specs.

Macs, quite underpowered, are my go to option because they're just perfected basic. Feels more pure. It's hard to explain until you try to switch over. It's only then when you realize how bad the basics are. When the basics, like a simple trackpad, don't work out, that's when you'll miss Apple.

WACOM + APPLE = set. Surface is really cool, in a gimmicky sense, but don't measure up to a solid MacBook. I'd take a MacBook and a Wacom over a Surface with equal pressure sensitivity any day of the week.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

I use a lot of Mac products but I'm knee deep in PC as well. I am a bit unbiased because I personally own Alienware, Surface and Razer. Excluding Surface, Razer & Alienware's battery is a joke because of how beefed up their specs are, understandably so. I've used every imaginable PC out there but Mac just has a special connection to the user, something an item you use regularly should.

I use the computer mainly for design (2d & 3d, kinda 4d (VR/AR/MR?)). People in this field know that there are ways to really optimize, at least early on. During the "early" stages all I really want are: ease of use and longevity. Apple is the only product I can use (thanks to bootcamp) that really meets these two basic criteria. Trackpad actually does what I want it to and the processor is, I think, optimized to lengthen battery life.

For professionals, everyone knows how to optimize scenes but not much you can do in terms of battery life or... the trackpad.

I've learned that your connection to the device is more important than razzle dazzle features of any company (Think fancy 2-1 tablet combos... Surface), even the specs! Gimmicks are never as good as solid basics. In my case it's just a responsive trackpad and reliable battery. I have enough tricks up my sleeves to forgo the beefy specs.

Macs, quite underpowered, are my go to option because they're just perfected basic. Feels more pure. It's hard to explain until you try to switch over. It's only then when you realize how bad the basics are. When the basics, like a simple trackpad, don't work out, that's when you'll miss Apple.

WACOM + APPLE = set. Surface is really cool, in a gimmicky sense, but don't measure up to a solid MacBook. I'd take a MacBook and a Wacom over a Surface with equal pressure sensitivity any day of the week.

I agree, but only for the Macbooks (pro) until 2015. The keyboard issues since 2016, the lack of ports, the older generation Intel processors, the lack of real 'pro' devices, the lack of powerful graphical abilities and the gimmicky touchbar make me think otherwise these days.

By the way: do you know what a much less portable WACOM+APPLE costs compared to the Surface book 2? The difference in user experience/quality does not measure up to that huge price difference. Also I don't think a Surface book 2 is gimmicky at all. A proper touch screen is much less gimmicky than a touch bar in my opinion.

 

[D-man67]

Good comparison. But what about performance between the two. Who wins?

I use old and new MacBook Pros at work all the time and my main personal laptop is a Surface Book 2. For me there's no comparison, the Surface Book wins every time. Mac Book Pros have good hardware but OS so does the Surface Book. It's hard to make a direct comparison because the processing intensive software I use (mostly 3d modelling and rendering), has to be done using Windows, and Windows on a Mac is always a dog (even with bootcamp). Even when running apps natively on MacOS (photoshop etc), performance always seems laggy compared to my Surface Book. In terms of usage, the new MacBook Pro keyboard and trackpad in particular feels like a clunky old dinosaur compared to my Surface Book