Apple's MacBook Pro vs. Microsoft's Surface Book 2

[Junior117]

Your post started "I’m not too sure why you needed to say that." (in response to someone raising the keyboard issue) so, no, dropping a "personally" in there doesn't make your argument any less ridiculous.

Yet, my next sentence stated that I'm very well aware of the issues, which implies that I clearly do know that people are upset about it and it's either an annoyance or an inconvenience to many others, but I pointed out that it isn't to me. On top of that, they responded to my statement about the fact that I'm concerned about the hinge on the Surface Book, but I implied that it's not enough for me to not like it (because I don't let that sort of thing get me upset). Finally, I spent a while paragraph wasting time explaining that my comment about being worried about the hinge isn't an attack on the Surface Book itself. So actually, it's your statement that's ridiculous, not mine. What seems to be happening here is you're upset about the fact that I don't have an issue with it; if it wasn't an issue that I don't have an issue, then—assuming you actually read my posts properly—you wouldn't have a need to start such a foolish argument in the first place.

I'll say it again: I'm very aware of the keyboard issue, but it barely affects me because I have my own solution to the problem. It's not a great solution for everyone, but it a solution for me, because I'm not going to sit and cry over a—albeit expensive—material object* (even though I need it to do my work). If you don't like the fact that I'm not angrily yelling at Apple because of this, then you have bigger problems here. Good for you that you're upset at Apple, but don't drag me into your mob.

You know what? Forget it: you're just going to keep attacking me and taking my statements out of context. If you want to continue wasting your time arguing, thinking I will eventually look stupid, backtrack, and say that it's a big problem for me even when it's not, then good for you; I have better things to do than to get upset about this nonsense.

* And I'm not saying (nor implying) that everyone else that's complaining about it are crying or anything like that. Though, to some people, it certainly looks like it.

 

[Abazigal]

True, when one goes out to buy a laptop, they'll look at laptops

But what about the people who are out buying hybrids? When they go out to buy a hybrid device, are they not out to buy a hybrid device?

They are, though going by the sales of Microsoft devices, hydrids appear to still be a fairly niche market.

No doubt there are people who are want a hybrid device so they don’t have to contend with managing multiple devices. They simply aren’t the majority, and Apple doesn’t serve niche markets. Not anymore. So it’s not that their needs don’t matter. Apple has made a conscious decision not to serve them.

 

[Rockadile]

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No - its a high-profile example of a laptop very much targeted at the MacBook Pro market, but possibly not the "Creative Pro" (i.e. hardcore Adobe CS, pro video editing, audio production etc.) market. Its really up against the 13" MBP more than anything - power users will probably be looking for something with quad core.

"Creative Pro" wise - as you say - an issue is the lack of a true "mobile workstation" MBP that prioritises CPU/GPU power, screen size, internal storage etc. over size, weight and battery life.

Both of the 13" and 15" Surface Book 2 has a quad core option...or am I not looking at the right thing?
3:2 aspect ratio and Nvidia CUDA. Looks better suited to creative pros.

The 17" Razer Blade Pro seems like the best for creative pros looking for "mobile workstation" since we're not going to be seeing that from Apple focused on form over function and 17" buyers abandoned.

 

[theluggage]

Both of the 13" and 15" Surface Book 2 has a quad core option...or am I not looking at the right thing?
3:2 aspect ratio and Nvidia CUDA. Looks better suited to creative pros.

Sorry - you're right - hadn't spotted that the i7 option is now quad - they're taking advantage of the 8th gen CPUs that generally pack another pair of cores in across the board. - its still the lower-power 15/28W x6xx i7 c.f the 45W x7xx i7 in the 15" MBP but for multithreaded "pro" apps those two cores might make the difference. Hopefully Apple will switch to 8th gen processors Real Soon Now so it will be up against quad-core 13" MBPs and higher-TDP hex-core 15" MBPs and balance will be restored.

 

[theluggage]

You know what? Forget it: you're just going to keep attacking me and taking my statements out of context.

The context of your statement was perfectly clear: someone criticised the keyboard on the MBP and you responded by saying that you didn't understand why they said that because you never use the keyboard.

On top of that, they responded to my statement about the fact that I'm concerned about the hinge on the Surface Book

I've briefly owned an original Surface Book (there's a long-ish post about it further up). The weird hinge is there because its MS's take on the "convertible" design. I'd love to give a long-term report on how useful the "convertible" aspect was in reality, but within a couple of weeks the machine was locking up whenever I ejected the tablet and shortly after that it was bricked completely as a result of the widely reported "sleep of death" problem. So, I wouldn't worry about the hinge - I'd worry about whether they've cured "sleep of death" with the SB2.

Thing is, if you don't like the hinge, there are several other "takes" on the convertible design from other manufacturers, and if you don't want a convertible there is a vast choice of regular laptops (including the Surface Laptop if you want to stick with MS) - what all of these have in common is that you'll have* to use Windows or Linux.

If, however, you want to use MacOS, want/need a new laptop, but don't like the MBP-style keyboard then, well, personally I'd get a MacBook Air because I mostly use my laptop plugged into an external screen, so I can't see why anybody would complain about the low-res display...

*if someone uses a Hackintosh for serious/important work, and can live with the risks, thats their decision, but its not something I'd advocate for everybody.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Both of the 13" and 15" Surface Book 2 has a quad core option...or am I not looking at the right thing?
3:2 aspect ratio and Nvidia CUDA. Looks better suited to creative pros.

The 17" Razer Blade Pro seems like the best for creative pros looking for "mobile workstation" since we're not going to be seeing that from Apple focused on form over function and 17" buyers abandoned.

Except that a quad core in those chassis (especially the Razer) will be extremely throttled.

 

[LordVic]

Except that a quad core in those chassis (especially the Razer) will be extremely throttled.

the new Quad Core 8xxx series CPU's from Intel are within the same thermal envelope as the dual core 7xxx series. Both have a maximum thermal envelope of 15w.

if the 7500u doesn't throttle, neither will the 8550u (and vice versa).

 

[convergent]

They are, though going by the sales of Microsoft devices, hydrids appear to still be a fairly niche market.

No doubt there are people who are want a hybrid device so they don’t have to contend with managing multiple devices. They simply aren’t the majority, and Apple doesn’t serve niche markets. Not anymore. So it’s not that their needs don’t matter. Apple has made a conscious decision not to serve them.

You are confusing some things there. You can't look at just Microsoft's hardware sales to assess the hybrid segment. You need to combine with HP, Dell, Lenovo, Samung, etc. that all sell hybrids. And that is not a niche market. Its the only part of the market that is growing, according to IDC. https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS42332117

There is simply no segment that Apple sells products in that they hold a majority, so your view of Apple seems to be completely opposite of reality.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

the new Quad Core 8xxx series CPU's from Intel are within the same thermal envelope as the dual core 7xxx series. Both have a maximum thermal envelope of 15w.

if the 7500u doesn't throttle, neither will the 8550u (and vice versa).

I would definitely wait for the reviews on that for anything from Razer. Every single laptop from them throttles. Surface Book 2, I don’t know. As far as I know the biggest issues with that have been the traditional issues with sleep/wake/hibernation that all the SPs have, and driver issues.

 

[LordVic]

I would definitely wait for the reviews on that for anything from Razer. Every single laptop from them throttles. Surface Book 2, I don’t know. As far as I know the biggest issues with that have been the traditional issues with sleep/wake/hibernation that all the SPs have, and driver issues.

Sorry, not meangintg to say that they won't throttle. Just that moving from the 7500u to the 8550u won't have additional heat requirements.

if it throttled before, it'll still throttle now (And yes, I have a razer blade stealth with the 7500u and it absolutely throttles. especially if I have the vents blocked.

though suprisingly, I was playing a game on it last night and managed to play pretty smoothly

 

[deepen03]

It's 2018 and Windows scaling in high DPI displays is still subpar.



Except it is double the thickness of a MacBook Pro, and the touchpad / touch screen is not really ergonomic (it requires carrying around a mouse). It may be more powerful, but not as portable as a MBP.

Ever heard of the foldable Arc Mouse? Your argument is FALSE.
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If the Surface Book ran MacOS I'd be there in a heartbeat.
But it doesn't, so I won't, so there you have it.
Good review though!

So? Windows 10 Pro has actually been proven to be more stable and secure than MacOS. There are people like me who would NEVER want to use MacOS and be restricted to what Apple allows.
[doublepost=1526068595][/doublepost]

Surface runs windows. Case closed, it's a hard no for me.

You probably haven't used "Windows" in a while. I have been running 10 Pro on multiple devices, including the one I am typing on, which is a Custom Desktop from 2006 running a Core 2 Quad, on an SSD. NEVER AN ISSUE.

 

[stockscalper]

The Surface Book 2 is thicker because of the hinge thing. My Spectre 360 is just as thin, perhaps a tad thinner, than my new MacBook Pro. You don't need to carry a mouse either because the trackpad is just fine.

 

[brushlee]

Could use Surface (probably) as office machine - due to MS ecosystem here, but I would never get it as my personal device....

 

[DanielDD]

Ever heard of the foldable Arc Mouse? Your argument is FALSE.

Very nice device, IF you have a table at hand. How do you use it when you just have your lap to rest your laptop? Like, on a plane, on a train?

 

[eltoslightfoot]

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...lickering-surface-pro-4s-for-free/?comments=1

 

[Rockadile]

Sorry - you're right - hadn't spotted that the i7 option is now quad - they're taking advantage of the 8th gen CPUs that generally pack another pair of cores in across the board. - its still the lower-power 15/28W x6xx i7 c.f the 45W x7xx i7 in the 15" MBP but for multithreaded "pro" apps those two cores might make the difference. Hopefully Apple will switch to 8th gen processors Real Soon Now so it will be up against quad-core 13" MBPs and higher-TDP hex-core 15" MBPs and balance will be restored.

Told myself I'd get a new MBP when a hexa-core option arrives. I do see a sliver of light at the end of the tunnel now.

I just hope they raise the key travel a bit. I'm using the numerical Magic Keyboard when at home and the key travel is good here. Not too much travel like my MBP but not too flat like the current MBP.
[doublepost=1526083371][/doublepost]

Except that a quad core in those chassis (especially the Razer) will be extremely throttled.

Well what can you expect from a slim centric laptop with some performance? It's either that, a 2" block-like laptop, or Apple's own slim design as well.

 

[s15119]

Ever heard of the foldable Arc Mouse? Your argument is FALSE.
[doublepost=1526068501][/doublepost]

So? Windows 10 Pro has actually been proven to be more stable and secure than MacOS. There are people like me who would NEVER want to use MacOS and be restricted to what Apple allows.
[doublepost=1526068595][/doublepost]

You probably haven't used "Windows" in a while. I have been running 10 Pro on multiple devices, including the one I am typing on, which is a Custom Desktop from 2006 running a Core 2 Quad, on an SSD. NEVER AN ISSUE.

I use windows every day at work. I abhor it. I'd rather have my eyes pulled out than use it at home. As far as I am concerned; compared to OSX, Windows is a virus. Your mileage will certainly vary.

 

[DiamonDecoden]

I think if you never used a 2in1 design, you don't know what you're missing.
I was in the apple *ecosystem* but I escaped it for the hp spectre which comes with a pen. I used all those continuity features and you can replace it with many other google, windows, facebook services etc.
I love the 2in1 concept and it just really awesome to use and the macbook pro certainly can't compete against it because it's just a laptop.

If you use iPad pro and macbook pro to go against 2in1 s you lose the simplicity of having 1 device. These continuity features is not a feature but a workaround for using 2 devices for 1 purpose. It's much more simple just using 1 device for All your needs.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I think if you never used a 2in1 design, you don't know what you're missing.
I was in the apple *ecosystem* but I escaped it for the hp spectre which comes with a pen. I used all those continuity features and you can replace it with many other google, windows, facebook services etc.
I love the 2in1 concept and it just really awesome to use and the macbook pro certainly can't compete against it because it's just a laptop.

If you use iPad pro and macbook pro to go against 2in1 s you lose the simplicity of having 1 device. These continuity features is not a feature but a workaround for using 2 devices for 1 purpose. It's much more simple just using 1 device for All your needs.

I see it differently. When you use a 2 in 1 device (I have used everything from the old gateway tablet laptops to the Surface Pro 2, 3, etc.), you are compromising to just avoid carrying an extra device. Someone like you finds that compromise acceptable. I, however, found it to be extremely tedious at best.

When I want a tablet, I want instant on, last for days, simple and focused to use, no user accounts, everything streamlined and simple.

When I want a laptop, I want raw power, and a large screen. I want to be able to use it on my lap. Etc., etc.

In this case, having an iPad Pro and a 15” MacBook Pro allow me to do just that. I sacrifice having a single device to get two devices tailor-made for that purpose.

Also, when you travel, it is really nice having an extra screen I have found.

 

[DiamonDecoden]

I use windows every day at work. I abhor it. I'd rather have my eyes pulled out than use it at home. As far as I am concerned; compared to OSX, Windows is a virus. Your mileage will certainly vary.

I use it for work too. But my company don't have great windows machines. My desktop computer is really ancient. Bleh. It's at least 7 years old with windows 7 on it with company installed software access restrictions. I also don't love it.

I recently got a hp spectre 13 2 in 1, and i really like it and it's very fast. Not saying you'll like it if you get what i get but I have a positive experience with windows for personal use.

● Ps. Windows is not a virus. It's an operating system. ♡

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I use it for work too. But my company don't have great windows machines. My desktop computer is really ancient. Bleh. It's at least 7 years old with windows 7 on it with company installed software access restrictions. I also don't love it.

I recently got a hp spectre 13 2 in 1, and i really like it and it's very fast. Not saying you'll like it if you get what i get but I have a positive experience with windows for personal use.

● Ps. Windows is not a virus. It's an operating system. ♡

I really want to like Windows 10. The problem is it sucks at being an OS. It does things without permission, or asking. Updates for instance. Grrrrr.

 

[DiamonDecoden]

I really want to like Windows 10. The problem is it sucks at being an OS. It does things without permission, or asking. Updates for instance. Grrrrr.

I'm still new to windows 10. Still lots to learn about it. I hope there's a solution for you.

 

[DiamonDecoden]

I see it differently. When you use a 2 in 1 device (I have used everything from the old gateway tablet laptops to the Surface Pro 2, 3, etc.), you are compromising to just avoid carrying an extra device. Someone like you finds that compromise acceptable. I, however, found it to be extremely tedious at best.

When I want a tablet, I want instant on, last for days, simple and focused to use, no user accounts, everything streamlined and simple.

When I want a laptop, I want raw power, and a large screen. I want to be able to use it on my lap. Etc., etc.

In this case, having an iPad Pro and a 15” MacBook Pro allow me to do just that. I sacrifice having a single device to get two devices tailor-made for that purpose.

Also, when you travel, it is really nice having an extra screen I have found.

Meh, it works for me. The technology just keeps getting better. I also have the samsung note 8 also with a stylus. I use that for a more portable experience. When i had both iPad and laptop, i really don't need both. I prefer the iPad experience but hated that full sized apps like the Adobe suites don't run on it. Very frustrating file system. So iPad only for media consumption and light work. Laptop for heavier work. I find having 2 devices really annoying for travel. So heavy to lug around. It's just so much more simple with 1 device. Sorry it doesn't work for you.

 

[mi7chy]

I really want to like Windows 10. The problem is it sucks at being an OS. It does things without permission, or asking. Updates for instance. Grrrrr.

So, frequent updates for iOS is awesome but for other OS' it's bad. Also, in Windows 10 you can set an 'active' time window so it doesn't autorestart update so, for example, don't autorestart between hours of 8am and 6pm when you're on the computer.

 

[m_emelchenkov]

I really want to like Windows 10. The problem is it sucks at being an OS. It does things without permission, or asking. Updates for instance. Grrrrr.

And, you forget, spying. And oh-my-god-so-ugly-and-counter-productive UI. Every time I have ideas to switch from Mac to Win, I install Win in Parallels, playing around 1 or 2 hours with it and start loving Mac again for next one or two years, then again install Win in Parallels and so on :-D