Apple's Past Sideloading Plans, Ecosystem Lock-in Strategy, and More Revealed in Internal Documents

[BootsWalking]

Marketshare of what? Ways to listen to music? Or is this one of those narrowly defined marketshare. In many towns, there may only be 1-2 grocery store options with one likely having >50% share.
FWIW, I live in Colorado. Across the entire state, Kroger (King Soopers, City Market) has a nearly 50% marketshare.

Marketshare in the exclusive distribution of items like Apple has with apps.

Btw, looks like Soopers have 36% marketshare and unlike Apple, others are allowed to distribute the items they sell. Unless the marketshare is different for all of CO vs Denver: King Soopers reigns as Denver's top grocery store by market share

 

[PlayUltimate]

Marketshare in the exclusive distribution of items like Apple has with apps.

Btw, looks like Soopers have 36% marketshare and unlike Apple, others are allowed to distribute the items they sell. Unless the marketshare is different for all of CO vs Denver: King Soopers reigns as Denver's top grocery store by market share

There is a difference. Many mountain towns and suburbs lack the options that Denver does.

 

[cocoua]

Top class article

 

[Analog Kid]

Wow, the difference in approach between Cue and Schiller is striking. Schiller appears to take a much more pro-customer approach, while Cue has a single minded focus on world domination. This wouldn't be the first time Cue's approach has gotten Apple into trouble...

 

[nwcs]

And you're suggesting that the anti-trust legislation multiple governments are looking at (often specifically targeting Apple's app store and payment system policies) and the Epic lawsuit specific to this article, are unrelated? Sorry, not buying that line for a second lol.

Good thing you don’t need a money back guarantee then.

 

[subi257]

Are the EU antitrust regulators armchair lawyers as well?

Apple Accused by EU of Anti-Competitive Behaviour in the Music Streaming Market, Sides With Spotify

Well the EU just doesn't get the world of technology...as in if they were to pass all of the crap they are proposing/threatining they would completely kill any innovation and might just have major tech companies give up on the EU. It's like they are trying to make their own standards that tech companies will have to adhere to and there will not longer be progress....all companies MUST use the same interface connectors.....They can only use USB-C and if all this commotion happened while we were on USB2, we would have had no USB-C, so they will no longer innovate because they can't use it. They all have to use the same compatible chargers, etc.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Apple's monopoly is in their iPhone app store. They're attempting to leverage that monopoly into the music subscription market. They don't have to succeed in that endeavor for their behavior to be deemed illegal. It's the act of trying to unfairly leverage a monopoly that's de facto illegal.

But didn't Spotify already solve the "it's unfair that we have to pay 30% and Apple doesn't" problem by having their customers sign up on their website?

Does Apple still need sanctions or regulations put on Apple Music?

Like I said... Spotify is still bigger than Apple Music. By a lot.

So it's actually amazing that Spotify has such a huge market share despite all the restrictions from Apple's platform.

But this only applies to the "music subscription" market.

What about the "VBucks" market?

Does Apple have a monopoly on selling VBucks?

 

[vipergts2207]

Good thing you don’t need a money back guarantee then.

Consequently your view of the subject is rather uselessly narrow. Of course, my initial comment was really just to poke fun at your banal and simplistic view of the findings that were detailed in the article.

 

[BootsWalking]

There is a difference. Many mountain towns and suburbs lack the options that Denver does.

Do any of the mountain towns and suburbs forbid other stores from distributing groceries?

 

[Orson Farris]

Wow. As someone who jumped to an iphone from Android and bought an Imac - It is forums like this that lead people to talk about the apple cult. Apple could run over 12 nuns in a crosswalk and people would defend them here. I guess I am pretty disillusioned with Apple now over CSAM and their privacy hypocrisy. My iphone will not get IOS 15. My Imac will not get Monterrey. I was going to get an M1X or M2 or whatever Macbook. Forget that now. Really, Google Services are much better than Apple's, Android is superior to IOS, Windows 10 is equal to Mac OS, so if I can't trust Apple on privacy why not switch back? Thats exactly what I am going to do.

 

[pacalis]

All companies either become successful and highly profitable, or stay ethical. Even google took down their “don’t be evil” sign at their campus.

I'm waiting for the internal documents that show that "don't be evil" was shortened from "don't be evil until we acquire doubleclick and then go all out..."

 

[pacalis]

Except the manner Apple used to do so is actually illegal under US antitrust laws for companies deemed to have a monopoly position in their market. Also, companies aren't allowed to leverage a monopoly position in one market to impede competition in another. These emails clearly reveal Apple did this for their music app and service.

Yes, I really did not think this was the case but this content is pretty damning on intent.

 

[sunny5]

Apple should allow side loading. Many apps aren't even available on Apple Silicon Mac which is useless!

 

[svish]

Interesting to read what's going on behind closed doors at Apple

 

[duervo]

"Although they may be our best and the brightest apps, Matt feels extremely strong about not featuring our competitors on the App Store," when asked why the company does not want to highlight apps from Google and Amazon. The email thread suggested that this was standard App Store practice, with some competing apps being seen "through a slightly different lens than most."

That’s not a good look at all for Apple. More fuel to add to the push for possible third-party oversight of the App Store.

 

[blueflame]

I am so dismayed. I really love apple products., but this is a hard NO. can't happen, can't allow it. I will not be upgrading until this is removed, and if it is not, I will not upgrade to apple products. dead stop right here.

I do hope they walk back. they should. this is too far for the sake of "security"

I have dropped down from 2tb iCloud to free, and emptied it, disabled everything related to iCloud and Siri on both my Mac and iPhone.
switch to secure services - signal, duckduckgo, proton mail
disables iMessage (more on that below)

will this make a dent? unlikely, but I hope they notice, bc I spend thousands yearly on phone, music, movies, services that stops here and now.

I think it is even less likely to make a dent worldwide. but this forum give me hope. this forum IS the heart of apple. if people like us stop recommending to family, friends loved ones random strangers, posters on the internet, trying to convert others, whatever, its only a couple of years before the whole things fall apart and our kind recommends other brands. that WILL make an impact over time. at a minimum, I wish people would disable ios15 updating, turn off iMessage(I know even now it is more secure than texting, but this is to make a impact) and delete iCloud. these are hard, but not impossible. easier than I expected actually.


the only one that seems hard Is messages. because it took time for the world to get on that. and is now darn near universal. even that, over time. while I know texting is FAR less secure. those green bubbles are a constant reminder of that. and I have already been able to get the most important people in my life onto signal. not perfect, but a nice step.

I wish MR would pin one of these threads to the top. this needs to NOT go away or be buried by other stories.

 

[Xtir]

The lesson being: to avoid an apple-locked-in-syndrome you only should buy/use platform-independent apps, -services or -hardware accessories.

Just the opposite what apple would like you to do.

 

[rme]

Wow! Atleast with this legal battle we’re getting to see the dirt.

I'm sure Cue and Schiller were misunderstood. Maybe they should explain it again. *cough*

 

[Tozovac]

And all corporations are supposed be returning the best ROI to the shareholders that they can. that is their corporate obligation.

“Best ROI…that they can”

Would I be willing to pay more for a dual-boot ipad/Mac that would provide me so much more utility? Yes.

Would many others? Likely, including those not happy with Microsoft surfaces.

I wouldn’t have held on to my 2014 MBA nearly as long if this were an option.

It’s hard to predict what’s the best paying product line-up scenario for a company, but in the long run, the best play is happy customers eager to spend. After the wild Wild West free sharing of mp3 files 20 years ago, I happily started paying 99 cents / $10 for iTunes downloadable files since the method was convenient and the quality was better. win win. I’d keep spending.

Make customers happy and eager to upgrade sooner than later via solid products that aren’t “held back to distribute product in the hopes of more revenue,” and you’re likely to get happier spendier customers.

 

[I7guy]

The lesson being: to avoid an apple-locked-in-syndrome you only should buy/use platform-independent apps, -services or -hardware accessories.

Just the opposite what apple would like you to do.

How many of the hundreds of millions customers of Apple have "apple-locked-in-syndrome"? Obviously a few here on the forum, but apart from that?

 

[nwcs]

Consequently your view of the subject is rather uselessly narrow. Of course, my initial comment was really just to poke fun at your banal and simplistic view of the findings that were detailed in the article.

Lol, you want the last word and I’ll let you have it since you’ll want to reply to this…

 

[vipergts2207]

How many of the hundreds of millions customers of Apple have "apple-locked-in-syndrome"? Obviously a few here on the forum, but apart from that?

Apple’s services category is their second biggest revenue stream behind the iPhone itself. Apple’s services are almost pure lock-in offerings which in 2020 was worth about $53 billion. But sure, let’s pretend a handful of forum goers spent $53 billion…

 

[I7guy]

Apple’s services category is their second biggest revenue stream behind the iPhone itself. Apple’s services are almost pure lock-in offerings which in 2020 was worth about $53 billion. But sure, let’s pretend a handful of forum goers spent $53 billion…

We're not pretending a handful of forum goers spent $53 billion. We are saying hundreds of millions of customers voluntarily parted with their money to the tune of $53B because they elected, on their own volition to make a purchase.

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

Wow... this, for once, is a really valuable article...
TBH, for the most of it, considering this is mostly chat, this is quite harmless... however, there are many things that put a few more nails into the coffin of the app store business as we know it...

Who's going to buy a Samsung phone if they have apps, movies, etc already purchased? They now need to spend hundreds more to get to where they are today.

This might ultimately lead to a right to transfer purchases between plattforms where an app is available on multiple plattforms... Data portability is already a GDPR requirement, but I guess this will hit Apple very soon if they don't allow multi plattform stores on the iPhone (which they won't).

No promotion... we are not going to promote something that puts it's goal as replacing our music player unless it is significantly better than our player and this is not.

Unless it's significantly better... well that happened with Apple Music rather sooner than later. XD

We and the major game developers have tried high-end gaming on the Mac... but have failed to generate any sizable business in that genre.

Because there's no highend GPU in the Mac. No one bothered for the few MacPro users back then. Apple now picked up on that, but it will take Thunderbolt GPU support on ARM Macs to finally be competitive. And then it will take another few years for the industry to target the plattform.

Separately, the documents show that in 2011, Schiller suggested that Apple could "ratchet down from 70/30 to 75/25 or even 80/20 if we can maintain a $1B a year run rate," in terms of App Store commissions, since the 30 percent commission rate would "not last forever."

Schiller was reasonable back then... I guess greed kicked in later. Now pandoras box is open and the opportunity of setting a fair rate themselves might have passed as it might be capped by regulation in the foreseeable future...

 

[vipergts2207]

We're not pretending a handful of forum goers spent $53 billion. We are saying hundreds of millions of customers voluntarily parted with their money to the tune of $53B because they elected, on their own volition to make a purchase.

Electing to make those purchases and being or becoming locked-in to an ecosystem are not mutually exclusive things.