Read all the earlier posts - there had been a back and forth discussion. IMHO most of us will be susceptible at some point in our lives to a PC virus either directly or indirectly no matter what platform we use.
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Apple's PC Marketshare up to 14 Percent for February 2008
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Read all the earlier posts - there had been a back and forth discussion. IMHO most of us will be susceptible at some point in our lives to a PC virus either directly or indirectly no matter what platform we use.
System 7/8/9...
They did? I used those systems for almost 10 years (buying my first Mac in '91) and never, ever, got a virus or spyware... until I built a Windows box to play games.
Yes, I had Norton AV on the Macs, but they never alerted me to any issues.
They did? I used those systems for almost 10 years (buying my first Mac in '91) and never, ever, got a virus or spyware... until I built a Windows box to play games.
Yes, I had Norton AV on the Macs, but they never alerted me to any issues.
'nix viruses
While I don't fault your statement specifically, please note that the Best Known malware mentioned is "Cuckoo's Egg" from the 80's and that the total is still only 863, compared to thousands attacking Windows over the same time period.
Yes, the number of attacks have doubled, but the ratio is still far below the number of attacks against Windows and Windows-compatible products.
While I don't fault your statement specifically, please note that the Best Known malware mentioned is "Cuckoo's Egg" from the 80's and that the total is still only 863, compared to thousands attacking Windows over the same time period.
Yes, the number of attacks have doubled, but the ratio is still far below the number of attacks against Windows and Windows-compatible products.
I've never really understood these figures - is this just a Mac vs All other PCs statistic, or is it compared to single manufacturers? If it's the latter, then 14% would appear to me to be rather a sizeable chunk of the market, given the number of PC manufacturers there are? I suppose that Dell are the other major player in the game (apologies if this has already been touched upon, it's a little late in the day to read the whole thread...) but where are Apple in the league table of things?..
I wonder how much more marketshare they'd have if they finally released a mini-tower. Less expensive than the Mac Pro, but more powerful (and upgradeable) than the iMac.
Oh, and more games wouldn't hurt either. And I'm not just talking about those year old PC ports we so often get. Sad thing is, I still need XP (boot camp) to play the latest games. So, I still cannot be rid of windows simply because pretty much all of the latest and greatest games are PC exclusives and don't even have a Mac version. *Sigh* the life of a gamer on a Mac isn't always easy.
Oh, and more games wouldn't hurt either. And I'm not just talking about those year old PC ports we so often get. Sad thing is, I still need XP (boot camp) to play the latest games. So, I still cannot be rid of windows simply because pretty much all of the latest and greatest games are PC exclusives and don't even have a Mac version. *Sigh* the life of a gamer on a Mac isn't always easy.
Here's an argument
I consider myself computer literate. I did use Windows 98 and XP. I did use anti-virus tools. Despite using a well-known anti-virus, I got tagged by the browser hijacker Xupiter and a very dangerous virus that forced me to wipe my hard drive and rebuild simply because I couldn't get the machine to stay online long enough for the AV to kill it due to constant reboots.
In both cases I was able to acquire the needed tools to remove this malware after the fact in order to recover my clients' machines. But the fact that someone claims that a computer-literate-Windows user doesn't need or doesn't use AV software is just insane! Even if you know what you're doing and actively work to prevent infection, there are so many attack angles that you cannot block them all by yourself. If you think you can, then you've already been pwned by someone and you don't even know it.
A) Because of low visibility, hackers that our out to steal your money are not going to specifically attack a small user base. This doesn't mean that they won't try other methods that have proven more effective; like phishing.
B) Because of the differences between 'nix and Windows, attacks that affect Windows will not affect 'nix, automatically making 'nix self-protecting against the majority of current attacks.
C) No OS is invulnerable. But of the malware designed to attack OS X, they have either attempted to go in through different add-on software like Quicktime or used some other avenue that required direct user input to install.
D) No matter how good the major anti-virus companies are, hackers will specifically try to neutralize them as a part of their attack. Symantic and McAfee are both victims of these hacks on Windows. I don't know if any others are.
In other words, just because you're smart and think you can protect yourself without outside help doesn't mean you really can. It takes not only intelligence, but the wisdom to know you can't do it alone and the willingness to look for the right kind of help.
I consider myself computer literate. I did use Windows 98 and XP. I did use anti-virus tools. Despite using a well-known anti-virus, I got tagged by the browser hijacker Xupiter and a very dangerous virus that forced me to wipe my hard drive and rebuild simply because I couldn't get the machine to stay online long enough for the AV to kill it due to constant reboots.
In both cases I was able to acquire the needed tools to remove this malware after the fact in order to recover my clients' machines. But the fact that someone claims that a computer-literate-Windows user doesn't need or doesn't use AV software is just insane! Even if you know what you're doing and actively work to prevent infection, there are so many attack angles that you cannot block them all by yourself. If you think you can, then you've already been pwned by someone and you don't even know it.
A) Because of low visibility, hackers that our out to steal your money are not going to specifically attack a small user base. This doesn't mean that they won't try other methods that have proven more effective; like phishing.
B) Because of the differences between 'nix and Windows, attacks that affect Windows will not affect 'nix, automatically making 'nix self-protecting against the majority of current attacks.
C) No OS is invulnerable. But of the malware designed to attack OS X, they have either attempted to go in through different add-on software like Quicktime or used some other avenue that required direct user input to install.
D) No matter how good the major anti-virus companies are, hackers will specifically try to neutralize them as a part of their attack. Symantic and McAfee are both victims of these hacks on Windows. I don't know if any others are.
In other words, just because you're smart and think you can protect yourself without outside help doesn't mean you really can. It takes not only intelligence, but the wisdom to know you can't do it alone and the willingness to look for the right kind of help.
I'm slightly worried - the more popular OS X becomes then the more enticing it will look to hackers, fraudsters etc.
UNIX or no UNIX, OS X isn't indestructible, and look at all the iPhone hacks there are, purely because it's a very popular device.
I'm a lil scared
The iPhone hacksI'm assuming you're referring to Jailbreakingare entirely different. Being able to rework the device you're standing in front of is typically very easy, especially with administrator access. However, attacking an OSX box from outside is more difficult.
Common sense is important, but if you consider the huge number of malware packages out there, including viruses, you'll see that a user can still be infected even with AV software. Without it, they just don' know they're infected and spreading it to everyone in their address book.
It's been my experience that the people who don't run AV software are Typhoid Marys.
How long ago did that happen? 2001? 2002?
Because that's the last time I can remember coming across anyone who had an infected machine with an actual virus. I don't run AV software on any of my Windows machines, and haven't for several years. The big problem for Windows users recently was spyware, and even that has been on the decline since the release of IE7 and more users going to Firefox/ Opera. Hell it's been a few years now since I have had to fix either of my grandparents XP machines because of a spyware/ adware problem. Most of the holes used to infect a persons computer have now been patched, and even if you're an every day user with no security consciousness, you can pretty much go without AV and anti-spyware software these days and have no problems at all as long as you're not using IE6.
Historically speaking, yes, that would be an accurate statement.
You have to also take into consideration how long both products have been in general use in the market place. Windows has been around a lot longer in the consumer world than Linux.
That landscape changes daily.
Linux servers are becoming more prevalent as web and application servers for major corporations.
This makes them a bigger target for data thieves and hackers.
This explains some of the more recent security holes being discovered and patched.
They are replacing Windows servers as well as Solaris and AIX systems.
The hardware to run them is also a lot cheaper than say a SUN E10k or an RS6000. Any off the shelf Dell Power Edge will do just fine.
While this doesn't fall into the realm of the Virus/Trojan weakness, it falls into the "hackability" of an OS.
Getting back to the desktop world, neither Linux nor OS X have enough exposure at the moment to be considered a real target for hackers.
If say Windows and OS X market share were reversed, hackers and virus writers would be banging away against OS X all day long.
Not saying they would have the same success as they do against Windows, but they sure as hell will have been successful at wreaking havoc on more than a few occasions.
Having blind faith in any OS's security is absurd.
Having blind faith in any company is absurd.
I am a user of many Apple products, although that shouldn't be a requirement to be a member here.
While I like the products, I do not partake of the Steve Jobs "Kool-Aid" that they make perfect products and that they can do no wrong.
A Switcher tells his tale
Below is the link to a blogger who bought his first Mac back in February. I have linked to the page of his oldest blog on the subject though if you want to start at his most recent post, start at http://www.davidalison.com/
http://www.davidalison.com/search?updated-max=2008-02-08T21:20:00-05:00&max-results=7
This is an exclusively Windows user telling about his experiences with a Mac and OS X.
Below is the link to a blogger who bought his first Mac back in February. I have linked to the page of his oldest blog on the subject though if you want to start at his most recent post, start at http://www.davidalison.com/
http://www.davidalison.com/search?updated-max=2008-02-08T21:20:00-05:00&max-results=7
This is an exclusively Windows user telling about his experiences with a Mac and OS X.
I just checked in my dictionary.
Fanboy |fanboi|
(imperative)
exhortation to reader to stop as writer accepts he/she has nothing worthwhile to say beyond this point
The "non-virus issue due Macs relative obscurity" would make sense if OS X had just fewer viruses but doesn't explain why it has zero viruses.
Fanboy |fanboi|
(imperative)
exhortation to reader to stop as writer accepts he/she has nothing worthwhile to say beyond this point
The "non-virus issue due Macs relative obscurity" would make sense if OS X had just fewer viruses but doesn't explain why it has zero viruses.
To refute:
As of March 14th, 26.05% of protected computers are infected with some type of malicious code.
(http://www.infectedornot.com)
Spyware is not going down, but increasing. By one recent count, spyware makes up something like 80% of all malware in the wild at this time, above trojans and viruses. In fact, as of March 14th, the Comet adware was the #1 most prevalent malware against all other attackers.
No, the problem isn't going away; it's getting worse and the defenses are having to scramble like mad just to keep up.
As of March 14th, 26.05% of protected computers are infected with some type of malicious code.
(http://www.infectedornot.com)
Spyware is not going down, but increasing. By one recent count, spyware makes up something like 80% of all malware in the wild at this time, above trojans and viruses. In fact, as of March 14th, the Comet adware was the #1 most prevalent malware against all other attackers.
No, the problem isn't going away; it's getting worse and the defenses are having to scramble like mad just to keep up.
Uh... you'll forgive me if I don't allow panda soft's nice little add on to tell me that I may have a tracking cookie or a virus template locked away in my archive chest. That is if it doesn't crash my machine first - yes, that's right, a virus checker that actually kills PCs. How useful!
Seriously, panic stats or what? These are extrapolated nonsense figures.
Seriously, panic stats or what? These are extrapolated nonsense figures.
Do you hear that Blackbaud? Do you?
I honestly don't know what folks see in .NET and M$ server extensions, but gods willing if Apple's growth trend continues, we won't need to worry about these things as much in the future.
I honestly don't know what folks see in .NET and M$ server extensions, but gods willing if Apple's growth trend continues, we won't need to worry about these things as much in the future.
Your proof?
JSYK, after trying McAffee and Symantic on my Windows box for a couple years, I found Panda and used it as my primary AV until I quit using Windows entirely. During that time, despite the number of attacks that actively attempted to block or shut down my AV, Panda never let any of them into the machine. I, personally, think Panda is the better choice for a Windows anti-virus that is user-friendly. Yes, I know there are others, some of them free; but Panda never gave me any problems and I never had a virus once I started using it.
As for your statement about "virus templates locked away in my chest," If it's in your computer at all, it's there. That doesn't mean it is active, but that you do have it in your machine. I don't consider that "Inflated."
Finally, I have yet to find any machine with Panda AV installed that is killed by the AV. I used Panda for 4 years in two different home-built PCs and never had an issue with it. I also use ActiveScan by Panda whenever I want to verify a client's problem in Windows. As yet, no issues. If you bother to read the details of any file 'discovered,' most of the time it's minor stuff like cookies or already-secured malware. But if it's something not already secured, at least now you know what you need to do. I'm not saying "Buy Panda," I'm saying you know what you have and only need to get rid of it.
Indeed. These numbers probably take no account of all the hackint0shes knocking around. Installed marketshare is always going to be a best guesstimate.
It nuked mine twice when trying to run its xpi add on from Firefox.
Never had one with Avast either.
Nonsense. They're just neutered and stored for reference you can delete them any time you want.
If you look at Panda's stats page it quite clearly shows that their figure of 20%+ infected is sensationalist garbage. If you don't believe me look at the percentage of active threats which are considered high risk and which aren't just ads.
This morning I read this bit of news while I was on a 3 hours long train journey.
It picked my curiosity so when I walked all the way to the restaurant I did a pseudo scientific test and counted all the people that had a laptop with them, results: 28 had PCs, 12 had macs.
Surely things are changing...
It picked my curiosity so when I walked all the way to the restaurant I did a pseudo scientific test and counted all the people that had a laptop with them, results: 28 had PCs, 12 had macs.
Surely things are changing...
i think this ratio would favor apple even more on a college campus. and people who start using a mac in college will most likely stick with that for the rest of their lives. in other words there are more people who try windows and then go to mac while there is a smaller number who switch the other way
I live in the center of the NYU campus (the only non NYU owned building) and right next door to a free wireless coffee shop where many of the students who avoid Starbucks go. While waiting in line I often count Apples vs. Macs to pass the time. I have never counted more PC's than MAC's. MAC's always dominate. I know this is not representative of the world at large, just my block in downtown NYC. Still, it always makes me smile.
To stop the annoying message about not having automatic updates, firewall off and no anti-virus software: go to Security Center, on the left menu click the option that says "Change the way Security Center alerts me" and then click "Don't notify me and don't display the icon".
Sorry to be a drag. I just know a lot of various tech people and I have never met anyone that prefers XP to OS X (I'm not just talking fan boys either). Yes there are sometimes features of XP that they want in OS X, but they don't prefer XP at all.