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Thanks, interests facts and interpretation. No need to be snippy though, I appreciate and respect your points.

The reason for the change to Intel was the laptop line was still stuck in G4 error and G5's were no-where in sight due to heat issues. Was Apple's laptop release updates as frequent as that in the PowerPC days. Apple knew their future was in portable devices.

Also, I think I can explain in part that rapid fire approach with the PowerPC lines:

1. Some of those revisions were to fix hardware defects. G4 and G5s had their fare share of these.

2. Apple was finding its feet again and felt it had to try new things and catch up to the PC after the dark days of the 90s. This was the era of Job's return and the beginning's of Ive's rise.

3. Don't forget too the transition to OS X from the classic days which added more overhead.

4. Peripheral component technology ( ie. GPUs, bus speed, I/O standards) changed rapidly

That era saw the decline of floppies, serial ports, IDE, SCSI, USB1.0, Firewire 400, AGP and several older Apple proprietary protocols.

This was changing much faster than it does today. Today, we've put much more functionality onto the CPU die and the industry has settled on USB3 and Thunderbolt and that's been stable for the last 5 years. Even a change in front-side bus warranted a new revision where today, we've got DMA directly talking to RAM.

5. Apple no longer give a damn about desktops but back in the mid 2000s, laptops had not yet reached the dominant form factor. The G4 was very likely their bread and butter and so it warranted their attention. They still catered to creative professional as their biggest market. The Mac Pro by contrast has never had this status.
Sorry, I didn't mean to quote your post.

You are correct. The industry has gone stale. Apple used to force Intel to keep up as well as the rest of the industry...now its all the same rubbish. We need Apple to go back to a proprietary chip, that will get things moving again. Apple harware was far more superior when it was proprietary. They have the Ax...what are they waiting for??
 
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Sorry, I didn't mean to quote your post.

You are correct. The industry has gone stale. Apple used to force Intel to keep up as well as the rest of the industry...now its all the same rubbish. We need Apple to go back to a proprietary chip, that will get things moving again. Apple harware was far more superior when it was proprietary. They have the Ax...what are they waiting for??

No worries, mate, all good. I love a healthy debate and found your fact-finding exercise an eye-opener :) The industry seemed much more interesting in those days. Then again, I loved it when we still had C64, Amiga, BBC Micros and ZX Spectrums!

I actually agree with you and would welcome the transition to Ax. The reasons I buy a Mac is precisely because the company is sufficiently different to the PC world. ARM has yet to hit the same limitations and x86, which is struggling with its need to maintain backwards compatibility with instruction sets and extensions still shacked to Microsoft. With the Ax, Apple's in a unique position to build the CPU it needs, not the CPU Intel gives it.

If an Ax chip gives me good enough performance, half a week of battery life at a cheaper price point then I'm all in. I personally don't give a damn about Windows support.
 
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Macs were the reason i loved this company back in the day, now Apple is pushing me away and it's sad
 
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Tired of waiting. By the time they bring it out Skylake will be replaced. I'm still running my late 2008 and have been waiting a year for this damn thing. I'm actually considering a pc which I never thought I'd go back to. If you're going to charge top notch prices you should have top notch tech. I don't mind paying more for the best, but the macbook pro line is just awful value now and has been for the last year or two.
 
My 2015 MBP 15 is fantastic. I like OS X, and I like all the Apple software. FCP and Motion are cheap... Logic is an unmatched deal for audio. With Affinity Designer and Photo, I have freed myself from being forced into Adobe subscription. They are great apps and also cheap. I get tons done with iWork apps too.

Sure Apple is on the expensive side, but the quality hardware and excellent software makes up for it. Macs just work. Battery life is good, machine is quiet, and I never have to think about it. I'm so productive with this machine. Does it have the latest and greatest cpu etc? I don't care. It is fast and efficient.

When the new MBP comes out, I'll be buying one as I would like to have a second machine as a backup. With the work I am doing right now, I do not want to have even a few days down if my current machine were to be unavailable for some reason.
 
It would be nice to have everyone put a sig at the bottom showing what year they acquired their first Mac and if they've been using it since. That might help all of us put these negative comments in perspective.

I personally think Apple needs to step on the gas with regard to development, keeping in mind development right now is largely tied to Intel chips which are slowing down their pace of innovation. But overall, Apple isn't nearly as messed up as some of the comments in this thread suggest. And I certainly wouldn't be "escaping to Windows" if I was upset. That would be rather sadomasochistic.

Mac user since the 128k in January 1984.
 
It would be nice to have everyone put a sig at the bottom showing what year they acquired their first Mac and if they've been using it since. That might help all of us put these negative comments in perspective.

I personally think Apple needs to step on the gas with regard to development, keeping in mind development right now is largely tied to Intel chips which are slowing down their pace of innovation. But overall, Apple isn't nearly as messed up as some of the comments in this thread suggest. And I certainly wouldn't be "escaping to Windows" if I was upset. That would be rather sadomasochistic.

Mac user since the 128k in January 1984.

I agree with that last part. I was a Windows user from 1998-2014 until I got my first mac (always wanted one but could never afford it). After using this laptop and OSX, I will never return. Windows, for me anyway, is absolute garbage and the thought of going back? I'd rather just quit computing period. Pure hell.
 
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Kaby Lake is launching in Q3 2016, so, i suppose Apple are waiting for that. While Apple's famous secrecy once gave them mystique, its almost working against them these days.

Though i can't see why they can't have kept the same design and updated to Skylake when those chips first hit.
 
[QUOTE=" That would be rather sadomasochistic. [/QUOTE]

no it is not sadomasochistic -- meanwhile I tend to use Windows 10 Pro more often then MacOSX even on my 15" retina Macbook Pro late 2013 ... and on the XPS 15 9550 with 1TB sm961 it is pure fun combined with handwriting on the surface pro 3 i7
 
Not surprised. Apple computers are no longer a focus for the company.

Tim Cook:

"I think if you’re looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?"

"The iPad Pro is a replacement for a notebook or a desktop for many, many people. They will start using it and conclude they no longer need to use anything else, other than their phones."
 
it would be nice if it was released for back to school. But it sounds like it'll be in the September-October realm after school starts. My daughter wants a Mac to take to college. I'm making her pay for part of it. Hard to part with that much cash for an outdated system....
Don't then.. simples....
 
Sorry, I didn't mean to quote your post.

You are correct. The industry has gone stale. Apple used to force Intel to keep up as well as the rest of the industry...now its all the same rubbish. We need Apple to go back to a proprietary chip, that will get things moving again. Apple harware was far more superior when it was proprietary. They have the Ax...what are they waiting for??

I admit I may be misreading or not fully understanding your comment here. However, it did inspire me to respond.

Apple best I can tell never forced Intel to do anything. Rather, Intel pretty much decided if/when it would release its latest technologies. As for Apple and proprietary chip, correct me if I am wrong here, they used a risc chipset. The risc processors had superior instruction sets to the Intel of that time. The move to Intel helped Apple get to OSX in an easier fashion and also cut costs down substantially. It was a predicated smart business move.

One thing that has not changed, technology has always been and remains ahead of software. Without a long write up I can just say that most processing chips (and video) are not efficiently used even today due to programming paradigms. Some of this can be directly associated with IBM and also early days of UNIX. - Just think abstract layer, top down programming and more. I wish Apple would dig deeper into its own OS to better exploit the instruction sets. I am sure a few programmers may disagree but not the old time ones who remember it well. The culmination of the garbage style of OS was Windows. The culmination of a more elegant version was OS/2 (though by today's standards a bit clunky). Lets be clear UNIX and variants are rather old operating systems and thus OSX is based upon BSD making it based on an old operating system.

Last - Its been awhile since I talked shop (back in the days when DR DOBBS was a go to casual programming mag) but Intel started to "borrow" from the risc chip and here we are today with some extraordinary values in CPUs. If we think about today's applicatons, are they really more than a thousand fold better than the 386 chipset software days? I don't believe they are. Apple could change all this but they have no reason to as long as Intel keeps putting out powerful chips that cover the OS makers (Windows especially) mediocre OS's. Lets be clear, look and feel are one thing but the under-pinnings are another.
 
I admit I may be misreading or not fully understanding your comment here. However, it did inspire me to respond.

Apple best I can tell never forced Intel to do anything. Rather, Intel pretty much decided if/when it would release its latest technologies. As for Apple and proprietary chip, correct me if I am wrong here, they used a risc chipset. The risc processors had superior instruction sets to the Intel of that time. The move to Intel helped Apple get to OSX in an easier fashion and also cut costs down substantially. It was a predicated smart business move.

One thing that has not changed, technology has always been and remains ahead of software. Without a long write up I can just say that most processing chips (and video) are not efficiently used even today due to programming paradigms. Some of this can be directly associated with IBM and also early days of UNIX. - Just think abstract layer, top down programming and more. I wish Apple would dig deeper into its own OS to better exploit the instruction sets. I am sure a few programmers may disagree but not the old time ones who remember it well. The culmination of the garbage style of OS was Windows. The culmination of a more elegant version was OS/2 (though by today's standards a bit clunky). Lets be clear UNIX and variants are rather old operating systems and thus OSX is based upon BSD making it based on an old operating system.

Last - Its been awhile since I talked shop (back in the days when DR DOBBS was a go to casual programming mag) but Intel started to "borrow" from the risc chip and here we are today with some extraordinary values in CPUs. If we think about today's applicatons, are they really more than a thousand fold better than the 386 chipset software days? I don't believe they are. Apple could change all this but they have no reason to as long as Intel keeps putting out powerful chips that cover the OS makers (Windows especially) mediocre OS's. Lets be clear, look and feel are one thing but the under-pinnings are another.

The Intel transition was all about IBM not wanting to invest anymore resources into the consumer side of the POWER chips. Apple wanted more power efficiency and a G5 laptop chip. IBM said to Apple they werent a big enough customer to justify the cost. IBM was not able/willing to deliver a 3GHz chip as Jobs promised at an event. At the time Apple was developing the iPad and couldn't do it with PPC. The Intel transition was about roadmaps. Ironically they didn't use Intel chips for the mobile devices in the end.

Intel didnt really do anything for OS X. There is nothing special brought to it by running on Intel hardware. In fact its a bit worse off as its easier for developers to use cross platform tools, which means they are less likley to use Apple's OS and hardware enhansements (like Adobe). Final Cut for example leverages all Apples OS enhancements, it can run perfectly fine on a low end MacBook....Premiere can not.

If this happened today and Apple had the big pile of cash, the could have bought out IBMs chip business, but they were forced into Intel. NeXT was ported from PPC to Intel, ported back to PPC as OS X, then ported back to Intel. Kind of funny (though the Intel and PPC versions were both activly developed through the NeXT and Apple cycle. I bet they are still making a Power version of OS X and an Ax version just in case.
 
Agreed 100%, everyone listen to jkichline. Thanks for your post.

Apple is quietly killing it on PCs, they probably make 50x per-unit profit compared to other manufacturers.

I am glad Apple is holding off MBP updates until there's a meaningful improvement to offer. They are resisting a certain type of incrementalism; the same incrementalism people sense and are already complaining about with iPhone 7. The wait shows confidence and restraint.

Of course Apple is staying wildly profitable. But it seems like they are quickly eroding the excitement of their fanbase. People were OK paying a premium when Apple's products when it was for a clearly superior product. But under the Cook era the releases have become increasingly underwhelming (MacBook, Mini, Apple Watch), late (MacBook Pro, iMac) or just a size tweak of a current product (iPad Pro, iPhone SE). This doesn't even include the rumored 'spec bump' release of the iPhone...their biggest selling/most profitable product.

I admire you blind faith that they are holding out for meaningful improvement, but I have yet to see an update Cook under that truly 'wowed' consumers.
 
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What a [deleted] surprise. You go to buyers guide and 6 out of 7 mac products are in the 'don't buy' category. Find me another Tech company that has this kind of line up. Apple you are a shamble.

I am glad your mac sales are falling, and it would be a lot worse for Q3, and you bloody deserve it.

Get your act together, and do your users some justice!
 
it would be nice if it was released for back to school. But it sounds like it'll be in the September-October realm after school starts. My daughter wants a Mac to take to college. I'm making her pay for part of it. Hard to part with that much cash for an outdated system....

Personally, I would tell her to wait and use the college computers for a month or so, and then send the laptop off once the new models come out. Apple really exploit the back to school season just to get their old stock out the way, and I personally think people should stop playing into apple's game.
 
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I totally agree with this part. And I'm totally with you, I would be okay buying the slightly older generation of intel CPU's if the prices werent that high.

I know not everyone is a spec reader, but those that are can see the hideous disparity between what what Apple is charging in Oz today compared to the competition. Granted, Apple has always had their luxury tax, but back 5 years ago when shopping for a laptop, the 'specs to price' ratio was far closer to the competition. My 2011 MBP was really just a smidgen more than the equivalent windows laptop with deducated graphics and similar specs. I was happy to pay the extra for the build quality and no hassles when running OSX (otherwise I wouldve just hackintoshed like I always do).

But look at their 15" MBP now, which STARTS at AU$3099, and goes up to AU$3799 for the dGPU model. Then compare it to todays competition. Its nothing like just 5 years ago, it is another league of money gouging and living in a distorted reality field. Being a few years out of date just adds even more insult to injury. There are consumers who will buy it sure. But I think once you put it all into perspective, Apple is charging far more for far less now, and as a consumer I find it insulting. I'm not saying they should compete directly with the Wintel market, they never have - but the Apple tax has become ludiciously high. In the end all we can do is vote with our wallets.

I hear you! The fluctuations with exchange rates really kills. Like you say, $3800 to get a laptop with dedicated GPU is rediculous. $1999 for the bottom of the line rMB is also way too steep.

That said, look out on the refurb store. Refurbs are always resold using the exchange rate at the time they originally came out. I picked up a late 2013 15" MBP 16/512 with GPU for $2600. And when the latest rMB came out I picked up the revision 1 for $1439 as a refurb, but it was brand new.

Refurbs are the only macs worth buying ATM. Unfortunately the iMacs NEVER seem to come onto the store here in OZ though :/
 
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MacBook Pro with a 17" 4K screen please. Yes, I know it will never happen, but a guy can dream ...

I've been checking out the HP Spectre series with the 4K screens, i7, 16 GB RAM, and 512GB or larger SSD. It is a nice looking machine plus you have the option of a touchscreen and even convertible use in the x360. BestBuy has the feather-light 13.3" model with QHD/i7/16GB/512GB for $1500. I really like it. The only question I have is reliability and support.

I prefer the HDPI scaling function of Windows 10 which can scale the interface in 25% steps instead the way OS X handles it where you only get HDPI function at 2x scaling.
 
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I've been checking out the HP Spectre series with the 4K screens, i7, 16 GB RAM, and 512GB or larger SSD. It is a nice looking machine plus you have the option of a touchscreen and even convertible use in the x360. BestBuy has the feather-light 13.3" model with QHD/i7/16GB/512GB for $1500. I really like it. The only question I have is reliability and support.

I prefer the HDPI scaling function of Windows 10 which can scale the interface in 25% steps instead the way OS X handles it where you only get HDPI function at 2x scaling.

Get it from the MS Store if you have one. That's where I got my Dell XPS 15 at the start of the year. I got it with an MS warranty so if I have issues for support or what not, I just walk in and get it taken care of. I haven't had to do that yet as my Dell XPS is rock solid.

I also tag team my XPS with my Dell U2715H 27" IPS monitor. Absolutely stellar combo.

The fact I've gone this far means Apple isn't bothering to keep up. They won't even tell us if there's something in the works. They don't make the stand alone monitors anymore, so I can see where Apple is going. I had to bail on them.
 
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It would be nice to have everyone put a sig at the bottom showing what year they acquired their first Mac and if they've been using it since. .

Why first Mac instead of first Apple? My first Apple was a II+ in 1981 which was a fantastic machine for the time. I hated the clunky Mac GUI and All-in-one design and switched to a PC XT in 1984. To this day, I have never owned an all in one desktop. My first Mac was a powerbook G3 (Wallstreet) in 1999, though I didn't consider a Mac my main computer until my 2004 powerbook G4. Since then, I've owned 3 other powerbooks/MPBs ending with my current machine, a 2011. There were also several mac minis along the way including a 2012 i7 quad. I am very nearly certain I've bought my last Mac.
 
Personally, I would tell her to wait and use the college computers for a month or so, and then send the laptop off once the new models come out. Apple really exploit the back to school season just to get their old stock out the way, and I personally think people should stop playing into apple's game.

It's the kind of stuff that leaves a bad taste in your mouth instead of being excited about your purchase. From a practical perspective, it makes all the sense in the world to wait. But being the our oldest kid and first one leaving the nest, my wife is going completely overboard to make sure she has everything she could possibly need.

While I know she'd be fine making do for a couple of weeks, it'll be a tough sell.
 
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It's the kind of stuff that leaves a bad taste in your mouth instead of being excited about your purchase. From a practical perspective, it makes all the sense in the world to wait. But being the our oldest kid and first one leaving the nest, my wife is going completely overboard to make sure she has everything she could possibly need.

While I know she'd be fine making do for a couple of weeks, it'll be a tough sell.

Leaves a bad taste? The existing machine is awesome... will serve her very well. In fact, if the rumors of MBP's going all usb-c are true, I might prefer the current machine cause for the next year or two at least it will be more connectable and so potentially better for a college student.

Also, the current machine and design is solid and stable. The next iteration will be a new design with some potential hiccups along the way. The first purchasers can be a bit like beta testers.

There is no reason not to get the current machine unless one is mainly about the tech race. If the focus is on real productivity, then the current machine will be basically as good as the next iteration.
 
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