Apple's Phil Schiller Discusses Risks of Alternative App Stores on iPhone

[AlexESP]

Freedom is a balance. Too much freedom for one party encroaches on the freedoms of other parties. There is a power imbalance between big tech companies on the one hand and regular users, as well as app developers, on the other hand. If Apple and Google decide to do things one way, there’s nothing their users can do. Giving the big companies the freedom to do so means restricting the freedom of their customers. This would be different if there were a dozen of smartphone ecosystems, but there is effectively a duopoly. Moreover, those companies have accumulated a technical and regulatory moat that has become virtually impossible for newcomer companies to compete with. The aim of the DMA is to strike a fairer power balance between market participants. Now, one may disagree about the details of what exactly is fair or not, but it’s hard to deny that there is a significant power imbalance that favors the big tech companies.

Nokia, RIM, etc., all those dominant companies in the phone market many years ago, almost don’t exist today. I don’t think it’s “virtually impossible for newcomer companies to compete”. Specially, when Apple holds a small marketshare % in Europe.

Also, this is not about “big companies vs newcomers”; this is more about “Microsoft, Spotify, Epic vs Apple”. The App Store has been a blessing for small developers, we couldn’t read so many stories of successful indie devs before it was created. This is is basically relevant for big companies.

To me, the main power imbalance here is that the EU keeps telling trying to force their vision of tech on companies and customers. As a customer, this act goes against me.

 

[GeoStructural]

You are not wrong, but from Apple's perspective, not only do they not want to lose control, but when security issues inevitably occur, people will blame Apple for it, so I think they want to minimize that.

No one will blame Apple, stop it with that narrative. It is a financial issue for them, the AppStore is a cash mine and they are not willing to let it go.

 

[BGPL]

I'll be the guy that brings up the taboo topic of porn. The Vision Pro could do amazing things for those people who no longer possess the ability, for whatever reason, to court others and their only shot at "intimacy" is through the digital type. I think Apple is being the morality police by not allowing "intimate" apps and has limited pornography access to websites.

 

[coolfactor]

Well anything in life is a risk but if I want to jump out of a plane or install some 3rd party app, that’s my decision to make.

Next

That's a selfish position in a "networked" world. If these devices were standalone, not connected to "the net"... then absolutely. But with always-on devices, the attack surface becomes much greater, particularly for less-knowledgeable users, elderly, and the like.

Apple has a responsibility to do everything it can to protect the greater good using its devices in a world filled with malicious intent.

We've enjoyed decades of greener pastures, but now we're taking a step to the darker side where layers of anti-malware will be needed to keep us safe.

Data usage will increase, and battery life and general system performance will be reduced once our devices are running less-scrutinized software.

 

[AlexESP]

How can you be against the DMA if you’re so pro freedom? The DMA is giving YOU way more freedom than the alternative. Or are you just championing Apples freedom?

So you didn’t read my comment. “Freedom” is not “just doing what I want”. Apple offered a product, with a set of features and conditions. They’re free to choose what they create, and they’re responsible for their consequences. Users are free to choose what product suits them better - many choose Android!

But now, there is a 3rd person, who has nothing to in the optional relation between the company and the customer, and limits freedom for both: freedom of the company to design their product, and freedom of the customer to choose that product. Some people might like it, call it however you want, but this is the opposite of freedom.

 

[coolfactor]

No one will blame Apple, stop it with that narrative. It is a financial issue for them, the AppStore is a cash mine and they are not willing to let it go.

People will absolutely blame Apple. Maybe not folks in this forum, but there are large swaths out there that don't understand the nuances. Ever heard someone refer to Apple as "Mac"? I have. 🫣

 

[sw1tcher]

When an EU user faces serious consequences or harm to their privacy or monetary losses from apps loaded from alternative app stores, I'm certain EU will happily bear the responsibility and agree to any & all due compensations for the unlucky or unsuspecting user. After all, it's such a consumer friendly, just, and easily approachable multi-national government entity.

When a user faced serious consequences or harm to their privacy or monetary losses from apps loaded from Apple's carefully curated App Store, did Apple happily bear the responsibility and agree to any & all due compensations for the unlucky or unsuspecting user?

Bitcoin Scam App Approved by Apple Robs iPhone User of $600,000+

A scam bitcoin app that was designed to look like a genuine app was accepted by Apple's App Store review team and ended up costing iPhone user...

www.macrumors.com

Short answer: No.


Apple's claim that apps on their App Store are reviewed and only safe apps are allowed on their App Store is a load of B.S.

Pig-butchering scam apps sneak into Apple’s App Store and Google Play

In online confidence scams, appearance is everything—and app stores can help with that.

arstechnica.com

Beware of scammers! Dangerous apps in the App Store

Dangerous investment-apps in the App Store take users’ personal data and hand it to phone scammers.

usa.kaspersky.com

Online Security Coverage | Tom's Guide

The latest Online Security news, comment, reviews and features from the experts at Tom's Guide

www.tomsguide.com

Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

Apple claims its App Store is carefully curated so that only the best apps get through. The truth is, the App Store is littered with scams and "fleeceware," which uses fake user ratings to trick customers into paying for something they don't want.

www.washingtonpost.com

After backlash, Apple removes fake Threads app, unethical loan apps from App Store - The Mac Security Blog

After facing public backlash, Apple finally removed some unethical apps from the App Store, including a Threads lookalike app and Indian lending apps with ridiculous fees.

www.intego.com

 

[coolfactor]

I'll be the guy that brings up the taboo topic of porn. The Vision Pro could do amazing things for those people who no longer possess the ability, for whatever reason, to court others and their only shot at "intimacy" is through the digital type. I think Apple is being the morality police by not allowing "intimate" apps and has limited pornography access to websites.

Entire businesses will be set up featuring private booths with Vision Pro. But with your hands being watched at all times... 🫣

 

[boss.king]

So you didn’t read my comment. “Freedom” is not “just doing what I want”. Apple offered a product, with a set of features and conditions. They’re free to choose what they create, and they’re responsible for their consequences. Users are free to choose what product suits them better - many choose Android!

But now, there is a 3rd person, who has nothing to in the optional relation between the consumer and the customer, and limits freedom for both: freedom of the company to design their product, and freedom of the customer to choose that product. Some people might like it, call it however you want, but this is the opposite of freedom.

More choice = less freedom is view I’ll never understand. Maybe its because I don’t think businesses should have rights on par with human beings.

 

[mode11]

Ever heard someone refer to Apple as "Mac"? I have.

Or refer to it as the MAC, like it's a PC.

 

[coolfactor]

Or Telegram, or Reddit.

Ironically, Reddit blocks any access from someone using a VPN. Not sure what their thresholds are, if some VPNs are authorized, but my private VON is denied access.

 

[star-affinity]

Apple always conveniently forgets that the Mac already allows third-party stores.

This is the exact thing I would like Apple to comment on; why is it there on macOS then?

If you make it relatively difficult to enable the allowance of third party stores and downloads on iOS and iPadOS I don't really see why the situation will be so much worse than that on macOS. Or am I not seeing some obvious difference between the platforms? 🤔

 

[Mescagnus]

As Nilay said in The Verge review ... AVP can see what your hands are doing at all time

Careful out there ...

Idea for an accessory: a tray or small table (big if you have been blessed) that you can place on your lap to keep Apple Vision Pro from seeing what one of your hands is doing, while keeping the other hand visible for navigation

 

[coolfactor]

More choice = less freedom is view I’ll never understand. Maybe its because I don’t think businesses should have rights on par with human beings.

Freedom does not have just a single definition.

If you walk into a gun store, lots of choice, right? Do you have the freedom to grab a gun and shoot the person next to you?

Freedom of choice has consequences. Therefore it needs to be managed, which is exactly what Apple has been doing successfully for years.

 

[mode11]

I wonder if Schiller feels embarrassed when he’s forced to twist the truth like this. It can’t feel great to know what you’re saying isn’t true but having to say it anyway to defend a company’s bottom line.

I expect he stopped giving a **** a long time ago. He's Apple's shiller-in-chief.

 

[Mescagnus]

When a user faced serious consequences or harm to their privacy or monetary losses from apps loaded from Apple's carefully curated App Store, did Apple happily bear the responsibility and agree to any & all due compensations for the unlucky or unsuspecting user?

Bitcoin Scam App Approved by Apple Robs iPhone User of $600,000+

A scam bitcoin app that was designed to look like a genuine app was accepted by Apple's App Store review team and ended up costing iPhone user...

www.macrumors.com

Short answer: No.


Apple's claim that apps on their App Store are reviewed and only safe apps are allowed on their App Store is a load of B.S.

Pig-butchering scam apps sneak into Apple’s App Store and Google Play

In online confidence scams, appearance is everything—and app stores can help with that.

arstechnica.com

Beware of scammers! Dangerous apps in the App Store

Dangerous investment-apps in the App Store take users’ personal data and hand it to phone scammers.

usa.kaspersky.com

Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

Apple claims its App Store is carefully curated so that only the best apps get through. The truth is, the App Store is littered with scams and "fleeceware," which uses fake user ratings to trick customers into paying for something they don't want.

www.washingtonpost.com

After backlash, Apple removes fake Threads app, unethical loan apps from App Store - The Mac Security Blog

After facing public backlash, Apple finally removed some unethical apps from the App Store, including a Threads lookalike app and Indian lending apps with ridiculous fees.

www.intego.com

This x 10 with alternative app stores. You give thieves more options – possibly easier options – and they will jump at the opportunity.

 

[AlexESP]

More choice = less freedom is view I’ll never understand. Maybe its because I don’t think businesses should have rights on par with human beings.

But this is not only about the rights of Apple, it’s about my rights as customer! I actively want a platform that doesn’t support alternative app stores, a company wants to offer that, but I’m denied to buy such product!

If I go a an adults-only hotel, is my freedom reduced because I don’t have the “choice” to bring kids?

 

[whiteashsaturday]

Legal Statement in Jan 2024 that, moving forward, users who brick their phones using 3rd party software, will in no way, receive AppleCare+ replacements.

Mark my words.

 

[star-affinity]

But this is not only about the rights of Apple, it’s about my rights as customer! I actively want a platform that doesn’t support alternative app stores, a company wants to offer that, but I’m denied to buy such product!

If I go a an adults-only hotel, is my freedom reduced because I don’t have the “choice” to bring kids?

This is in fact an argument I've been thinking about when it comes to this. And there is a point to it I think.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Maybe its because I don’t think businesses should have rights on par with human beings.

This is my issue as well.

I never want corporate entities to have rights anywhere close to that of individual human beings.

It’s bizarre and unnatural

 

[boss.king]

Freedom does not have just a single definition.

If you walk into a gun store, lots of choice, right? Do you have the freedom to grab a gun and shoot the person next to you?

Freedom of choice has consequences. Therefore it needs to be managed, which is exactly what Apple has been doing successfully for years.

They’ve been doing it profitably, but it still leaves a lot to be desired.

Also, your incredibly American example of buying guns assumes that someone has the option to sell you guns in the first place. I have a plethora of choices of notes apps in the App Store, I have no options for something like Little Snitch because Apple doesn’t permit that type of app. The choice were clearly talking here about isn’t which of the many guns I want to buy, it’s whether I have the choice to buy them in the first place.

And before the inevitable “well just buy an Android” — no. I bought an iPhone because I want an iPhone. That shouldn’t exclude the iPhone and Apple in general from improving.

 

[MacAddict1978]

Yeah it's so easy to find "objectionable content" by searching for an alternative app store, downloading it, installing it, opening it, and searching for an app.

Or you could just open Safari.

So much more convenient to open the ******* app - saves a few clicks.

 

[MacAddict1978]

This is my issue as well.

I never want corporate entities to have rights anywhere close to that of individual human beings.

It’s bizarre and unnatural

That sad thing is I feel like they have more - coporations lobbyists control our lives through Washington and few people realize it. Apple is one of the worse in the space, but no where near as bad as oil, tobacco, big pharma, evangeliicals...

 

[boss.king]

But this is not only about the rights of Apple, it’s about my rights as customer! I actively want a platform that doesn’t support alternative app stores, a company wants to offer that, but I’m denied to buy such product!

If I go a an adults-only hotel, is my freedom reduced because I don’t have the “choice” to bring kids?

You don’t have to use alternate app stores. Just ignore them and your iOS experience won’t change.

This is like complaining that you can’t buy a car that won’t let you drive in a certain part of town.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Legal Statement in Jan 2024 that, moving forward, users who brick their phones using 3rd party software, will in no way, receive AppleCare+ replacements.

Mark my words.

But Apple supports the right to repair