Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Apple's Phil Schiller Discusses Risks of Alternative App Stores on iPhone

makitango said:
Have you read what I wrote? Where did I mention a smart tv? And please show me a smart tv with the market power of Apple's iPhone.
Click to expand...
the market power of Apple phones is because people like what they offer. not what they dont.

if sideloading was the most important thing, Android phones would dominate and be more eviable.

you didnt mention Smart TVs or game consoles because you know the EU are making no moves against them.

why are you not demanding they open their closed app stores up to sideloading? because they wouldnt.
 
mode11 said:
Amazing how some people huff the Kool-Aid so hard that they actually want Apple to rip them off for repairs. It's pure Stockholm syndrome.



What apps do you NEED? I doubt there's any app you'd die without, unless your pacemaker needs app integration or something. But like everyone else, you probably want various apps.



Hello, 2003 called and wants its definition of a phone back. These days, a "phone" is widely acknowledged as being a handheld computer, almost certainly more powerful than your laptop from a few years ago, that happens to make the occasional phone call. And many people interact with them on a more than "minimal" basis.



Why don't you just move to China and have done with it?



You mean 99% of iPhone users? Perhaps, though you can't assume because people appreciate the various benefits of iOS that they love every aspect of it. And don't forget the 72% of the market use Android, in part due to the greater freedom to customise, install apps of their choosing etc.



Yes, that would be a nice start.
Click to expand...
so you have admitted that 99% of iphone users dont want this. solved the argument didnt you? ;)

Android is popular because they sell cheap phones. and they can afford them.

Apple sell fewer phones and make more money than all the Android market combined.

Tell us what app you you NEED to install...
 
  • Like
Reactions: iOS Geek
mode11 said:
They could only do so if they knew the majority of their customers would follow them, despite the significant friction (and hence attrition) this would entail vs. using the default App Store. It would be unthinkable to most developers. The app would need to be e.g. an insanely popular game to only be available in an alternate store.

Plus, the alt store would need to offer hugely favourable terms compared to Apple to make the attrition worth it. Which raises the question of how much profiteering is in Apple's offer. In practice, Apple would likely just reduce their take a bit.

A key benefit of alt stores is in keeping Apple honest. It weakens their control of the platform, to the customer's advantage, because they don't get the final say on everything - they're forced to earn their customer's favour.




So do I, but they're unlikely to bother with alt stores anyway. They're perfectly capable of using Macs / PCs without getting infested with viruses, and that's without iOS's strict sandboxing. So I'm sure they'll be fine.




Then don't enter your credit card details in any alt stores you don't approve of. Companies like Epic already offer detailed parental controls, that go way further than just approving purchases - https://safety.epicgames.com/en-US/parental-controls.
Click to expand...
Regarding the first point: I don’t see it that impossible, specially thinking about governments, banks, workplace, etc. or well-established apps like Spotify. The good thing about the current model is that we don’t have to worry about whether it will happen or not. If the app situation went downhill, Apple would be hurt anyway, since the value proposal of the iPhone would fall.

About parents, I don’t agree: viruses, scams, etc. are still a nightmare on PC/Mac. Of course this situation won’t be the same for everyone, but I can totally see some people disabling every single security toggle in order to download some scam app. Sandboxing will prevent from accessing private APIs, but Apple won’t review the content.

About kids, I think “don’t enter your credit card” is not a solution, that’s basically a restriction because the solution doesn’t work anymore. And I don’t think any parent wants to learn and trust the parental control system of every game platform on their kids’ phone.

These are all bets, no one knows with 100% probability whether you’re right or I am. But the good thing about the current model is that incentives are on the right side: if Apple is wrong with their bets, they will be hurt. If the EU is wrong with their bets, *Apple* is still hurt (and customers too).
 
wbeasley said:
it's a minority of people on here demanding Apple open the device.
and noisy devs who dont want to pay Apple.
Click to expand...
Minority, huh? Based on what?
Devs must be really mean folks if they already paid their dev fees and want to keep their revenue for themselves.
wbeasley said:
the market power of Apple phones is because people like what they offer. not what they dont.

if sideloading was the most important thing, Android phones would dominate and be more eviable.

you didnt mention Smart TVs or game consoles because you know the EU are making no moves against them.

why are you not demanding they open their closed app stores up to sideloading? because they wouldnt.
Click to expand...
I didn't mention smart tvs because they are not a gatekeeper. What a gatekeeper is has been declared again and again, and we both know you read that and you choose to act as if you don't know it. But again: It's an entity that is capable of harming competition in a top grossing market and blocking market participants who play perfectly fair in the market from entering said market.
No smart tv is in such a position of power.

You didn't mention toaster anymore because you know that comparison didn't help your case anymore either.
 
eicca said:
Given that old Macs are a dime a dozen, happily computing along, proves this whole "OMG ONLY INSTALL APPS THROUGH THE APP STORE OR YOU'LL DIE" crap totally wrong.
Click to expand...
The conversation was about iPhones, not Macs. I have several apps on my Mac that did not come from the App Store. Why you got Macs involved with your comment about me not using a Mac is strange and a diversion.

I guess my sarcasm radar was not working.

I know two people who had their android devices rendered useless by installing a questionable app. Their fault. There were apps in the Google Play Store that were found to be questionable and stole user information. People have bricked their iPhone by trying to jailbreak their phone. I have no doubt that someone, somewhere, will create an app that will compromise an iPhone. And someone will download the app.
 
Last edited:
wbeasley said:
Tell us what app you you NEED to install...
Click to expand...
Like with Apple, that’s got nothing to do with you now has it.

That’s the problem.

You can’t see this for some inexplicable reason, but the simple fact that they control what one can and cannot install on their own device is the issue.

Apple sit on their moral high ground and dictate these things, when really they should mind their own business. I can’t have a vape app because Apple says vaping is bad for me.

I mean wtf.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gusmula
turbineseaplane said:
Yeah, I also miss them. They felt "real"

Now we get these hyper over produced "AD videos" that are just homogenized, nearly AI bot produced, garbage

I just want Tim to leave.
I hate Apple under Tim.

Retire please.
Go hang out at all the Auburn football and basketball games or something and just "be rich"
Click to expand...
I've said it a million times over here the difference between a Stevenote and Cook video is night and day.

Steve made you believe in the product being demonstrated because HE was the one demoing it. Even when the product wasn't good (Rokr) his enthusiasm made you believe in it and want it.

Cook on the other hand is nothing more than a beancounter. He doesn't demo anything. He hands that off to his minions to show how DEI he/Apple is. He acts like he couldn't give a damn about the product and is doing little more than going through the motions, checking off a bulletpoint list.

The sooner he 's gone from Apple the better off we'll all be.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: gusmula, Dark_Omen, mode11 and 1 other person
cupcakes2000 said:
That’s a targeted message attack- not a random website one browses, as you appeared to imply.
Click to expand...
arstechnica.com

Hackers compromise official PHP website, infect visitors with malware (updated)

Php.net goes on lockdown after malicious code is found hosted on site servers.
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com

From awhile ago, but the problems still exist.

And this for Macs:

arstechnica.com

Malware has no trouble hiding and bypassing macOS user warnings

Warnings bypass can be used to “do a lot of malicious stuff,” researcher says.
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com
 
Last edited:
Apple is not the house here, it is the EU. Apple is a guest and has to behave. Apple is free to leave, but can't because it sticks to these sweet €€€ like a coke addict. Hint, not the drink.

Apple is free to do whatever they want, in whatever country allows them to do it. Nothing has changed about that philosophy. Apple has never been allowed to do whatever they want everywhere.
Click to expand...
I am an individual, Europe is a continent and the EU commission is a just gubernamental body. Thankfully the EU commission still doesn’t control every single aspect of my life, and I guess we will agree that the more room they give me to live as I want, the better. The difference is that while me buying Apple products is an optional relationship, the EU commission forcing Apple to design their phone however they want is not.

- You can be asked to approve any app installs, such as marketplaces, like you always have
Click to expand...
That is not true, iOS parental control won’t work in this situation (for obvious reasons).
 
  • Like
Reactions: iOS Geek
AlexESP said:
I am an individual, Europe is a continent and the EU commission is a just gubernamental body. Thankfully the EU commission still doesn’t control every single aspect of my life, and I guess we will agree that the more room they give me to live as I want, the better. The difference is that while me buying Apple products is an optional relationship, the EU commission forcing Apple to design their phone however they want is not.


That is not true, iOS parental control won’t work in this situation (for obvious reasons).
Click to expand...
You download any app marketplace from the App Store, just like a random app. Of course you have to approve that if you set it on approval mode.

The EU is mostly known for limiting how much companies can control my life. May I remind you that Apple did not dish out the data they had on you, to you, before they made it a legal requirement?
 
AlexESP said:
1) “I doubt”. One way not to doubt is to not allow it at all.
2) They’re not going to check content, obviously.
3) Once again, obviously parental control is not available for apps outside the App Store.

Maybe you think you won’t have real issues, but don’t force everyone else to design their phones under your assumptions.
Click to expand...
lol. I haven’t forced anything. I appreciate that you think I’m powerful enough to bend Apple to my will though.

1) out of interest, which are the apps you think will leave?

2) what content is it that your parents are likely to seek out that they can’t already come across on the internet?

3) I haven’t seen anything confirming that, but I’d love to see the source if you have one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mode11
Listening to a Tim Cook drone-a-thon is like watching Steven Wright sans the jokes:
 
wbeasley said:
so you have admitted that 99% of iphone users dont want this. solved the argument didnt you? ;)
Click to expand...

I didn't admit any such thing; try reading more slowly. People have a choice between two platforms, and need to choose on balance of features. People may prefer iOS overall whilst still wishing for more. Hence jailbreaking rather than just buying an Android phone.


wbeasley said:
Android is popular because they sell cheap phones. and they can afford them.
Click to expand...

Thats true for much of the Android market, but not for the flagship stuff like the S24 Ultra. Those customers clearly have the cash for an iPhone, but prefer some aspect of the Android experience - likely the greater opportunity to customise, including available apps.


wbeasley said:
Apple sell fewer phones and make more money than all the Android market combined.
Click to expand...


OK.


wbeasley said:
Tell us what app you you NEED to install...
Click to expand...

Let‘s face it, an iPhone is pretty high up on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. 15 years ago none of us had any apps. All aspects of the smartphone experience are about wants, not needs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: makitango
Does anyone actually believe this crap? We've been able to install whatever software we want on our Windows and Mac machines for....forever. But they need to protect us from doing so on our phones? No...they need to protect their profits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gusmula and Dave.UK
AlexESP said:
Regarding the first point: I don’t see it that impossible, specially thinking about governments, banks, workplace, etc. or well-established apps like Spotify. The good thing about the current model is that we don’t have to worry about whether it will happen or not. If the app situation went downhill, Apple would be hurt anyway, since the value proposal of the iPhone would fall.
Click to expand...

There’s a difference between possible and probable. Why would a bank not be in a platform’s default App Store? Why would Spotify for that matter? Why do think this hasn’t happened on Android?


AlexESP said:
About parents, I don’t agree: viruses, scams, etc. are still a nightmare on PC/Mac.
Click to expand...

‘Nightmare’? Even with Gatekeeper / Defender active by default? I think you’re overstating the risks somewhat. Especially for those that aren’t in the habit of torrenting warez.


AlexESP said:
Of course this situation won’t be the same for everyone, but I can totally see some people disabling every single security toggle in order to download some scam app.
Click to expand...

I’m sorry, but basic common sense is always going to be required, in all areas of life. If your parents are that reckless, they’ve got more problems than dodgy iPhone apps.


AlexESP said:
Sandboxing will prevent from accessing private APIs, but Apple won’t review the content.
Click to expand...

OK.

AlexESP said:
About kids, I think “don’t enter your credit card” is not a solution, that’s basically a restriction because the solution doesn’t work anymore. And I don’t think any parent wants to learn and trust the parental control system of every game platform on their kids’ phone.
Click to expand...

How many game stores do you imagine there’d be? Another anti-DMA poster was more concerned that Steam would dominate game sales.


AlexESP said:
These are all bets, no one knows with 100% probability whether you’re right or I am. But the good thing about the current model is that incentives are on the right side: if Apple is wrong with their bets, they will be hurt. If the EU is wrong with their bets, *Apple* is still hurt (and customers too).
Click to expand...

The current situation is the known one of course. But you have to accept that regardless of what’s best for consumers, Apple will never advocate for anything that reduces their Store revenue; quite the opposite.
 
  • Like
Reactions: makitango and AppliedMicro
When Apple says it’s: saving the user, saving the children, saving the environment. I know they are screwing the consumer and looking out for their bottom line.


Phil hit 2/3 with this interview.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dark_Omen and Mrkevinfinnerty
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back